First Greater Glasgow

[route101]

All the 9 branded buses, 32300/1/3/4/5 & 32585 are moving to Caley with the 2 branded E300s and 33904-33923 going the other way

Hopefully new buses for the 9 come onboard soon.

My worry for the 6, is Scotstoun is far from East Kilbride part of the route.

 

[smtglasgow]

My worry for the 6, is Scotstoun is far from East Kilbride part of the route.

Scotstoun to East Kilbride is a lot of dead milage. When the 20 was a through route to EK there were a lot of buses starting and finishing at Greenhills, but the current set up on the 6 seems very efficient. It feels like First Glasgow have a lot of lengthy dead runs: Caley to Kilsyth, Kirkintilloch etc, Blantyre to Petersburn, out to Shotts – no doubt there’s others. It makes sense financially, presumably, but it must add up.

With the 6 you wonder if they’ll be tempted to turn late running buses at EK bus station to get them back to Scotstoun on time for changeovers. To be fair to First, I don’t know how they can ever devise a reliable timetable for the route. I drove up Great Western Road two mornings in a row this week – first time did Cowcaddens to Byres Road in less than 10 minutes, next day it was 25 mins.

 

[PaulMc7]

Scotstoun to EK is a lot of dead milage. When the 20 was a through route to EK there were a lot of buses starting and finishing at Greenhills, but the current set up on the 6 seems very efficient. It feels like First Glasgow have a lot of lengthy dead runs: Cally to Kilsyth, Kirkie etc, Blantyre to Petersburn, out to Shotts – no doubt there’s others. It makes sense financially, presumably, but it must add up.

With the 6 you wonder if they’ll be tempted to turn late running buses at EK bus station to get them back to Scotstoun on time for changeovers. To be fair to First, I don’t know how they can ever devise a reliable timetable for the route. I drove up Great Western Road two mornings in a row this week – first time did Cowcaddens to Byres Road in less than 10 minutes, next day it was 25 mins.

Great Western Road has been one of the most horrendous roads for reliability I've ever known to be honest. The only way I see the 6 ever becoming reliable is if the route was split and given a few extra minutes of running time but getting a good place to split it is another thing entirely as we've discussed on here before.

Duke Street between Abercromby Street and Duke Street station can be inconsistently horrendous too mainly due to the traffic lights and how people park. Been on a bus that's got along in 2 mins before but sometimes you get stuck there for 20. It's all luck.

 

[route101]

Scotstoun to East Kilbride is a lot of dead milage. When the 20 was a through route to EK there were a lot of buses starting and finishing at Greenhills, but the current set up on the 6 seems very efficient. It feels like First Glasgow have a lot of lengthy dead runs: Caley to Kilsyth, Kirkintilloch etc, Blantyre to Petersburn, out to Shotts – no doubt there’s others. It makes sense financially, presumably, but it must add up.

With the 6 you wonder if they’ll be tempted to turn late running buses at EK bus station to get them back to Scotstoun on time for changeovers. To be fair to First, I don’t know how they can ever devise a reliable timetable for the route. I drove up Great Western Road two mornings in a row this week – first time did Cowcaddens to Byres Road in less than 10 minutes, next day it was 25 mins.

East Kilbride bus station used to have a inspector and spare bus. I remember Scotstoun buses running empty, easier with the A726 and M77 route back to depot. I do recall seeing a Gemini just before Busby Railway Bridge!

 

[GALLANTON]

Great Western Rd always seems to change on a daily basis, one day it can be dead and the next day at the very same time it's heaving

 

[PaulMc7]

Great Western Rd always seems to change on a daily basis, one day it can be dead and the next day at the very same time it's heaving

It's been the same for as long as I can remember to be quite honest. Between Cowcaddens and Byres Road is especially bad and always has been. People being incapable of parking properly has always been a huge factor plus the bus lanes are in operation outside of peak times too.

As long as those 2 things don't change the road will always be problematic.

 

[Jarcoed]

The new ADL Enviro400 EV's will be used on the 4, 38, 61 and 75 as far as I know. Other Enviro400MMC's will be used on the 57/A etc. I'm not sure about the Enviro200 EV's but I suspect they are for the 7/A and something else. The 22 new ones coming this year are for the 9/A.

 

[GALLANTON]

The new ADL Enviro400 EV's will be used on the 4, 38, 61 and 75 as far as I know. Other Enviro400MMC's will be used on the 57/A etc. I'm not sure about the Enviro200 EV's but I suspect they are for the 7/A and something else. The 22 new ones coming this year are for the 9/A.

What is your source.?

 

[PaulMc7]

What is your source.?

This was my first thought. The 38 and 75 would be strange moves given that their buses are very recently new and it would lead to 70+ buses being debranded just to be used elsewhere.

The 4 would also be a surprise too to be honest given that the passenger base has fallen straight off of a cliff in recent years too.

 

[Jordan Adam]

This was my first thought. The 38 and 75 would be strange moves given that their buses are very recently new and it would lead to 70+ buses being debranded just to be used elsewhere.

The 4 would also be a surprise too to be honest given that the passenger base has fallen straight off of a cliff in recent years too.

I agree, i find the 38 and 75 unlikely purely because it would require the full repaint of about 70 buses. Purely speculative but the 4, 5, 7/7A, 9/9A, 10, 57/57A, 60 & 87 seem the most likely candidates.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

This was my first thought. The 38 and 75 would be strange moves given that their buses are very recently new and it would lead to 70+ buses being debranded just to be used elsewhere.

The 4 would also be a surprise too to be honest given that the passenger base has fallen straight off of a cliff in recent years too.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the 38 and 75 saw new buses. They are high frequency routes so capacity would be fine. It’s not unheard of for routes to get new buses then a few years later see even newer. They also work out of Caledonia so they meet the criteria.

This would release a healthy number of E400MMCs which can be used to upgrade other routes and oust the remaining BTLs. It’ll be nice to see the 61 get new buses as the route hasn’t in many years despite at one time being notorious for receiving new buses. I feel like the 10 may be a good contender.

 

[PaulMc7]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the 38 and 75 saw new buses. They are high frequency routes so capacity would be fine. It’s not unheard of for routes to get new buses then a few years later see even newer. They also work out of Caledonia so they meet the criteria.

This would release a healthy number of E400MMCs which can be used to upgrade other routes and oust the remaining BTLs. It’ll be nice to see the 61 get new buses as the route hasn’t in many years despite at one time being notorious for receiving new buses. I feel like the 10 may be a good contender.

I feel like the main contenders were always the 10,57/57A,60/60A, 61 and then the 87,88 and 89. Would see a good load of old buses shift and see new buses on very well used routes.

 

[Volvodart]

I agree, i find the 38 and 75 unlikely purely because it would require the full repaint of about 70 buses. Purely speculative but the 4, 5, 7/7A, 9/9A, 10, 57/57A, 60 & 87 seem the most likely candidates.

The electric buses are likely to be in a special livery, so some buses colours could move to another route without a repaint.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The electric buses are likely to be in a special livery, so some buses colours could move to another route without a repaint.

Will they be in a special livery? I thought the E200EVs on the M3 were only given a special livery because they were funded by SP energy? Given the number of buses coming I think they’ll do similar to what they did in Aberdeen with the Hydrogen Streetdecks coming in the First livery.

 

[route101]

The 4 getting new buses is interesting; it still uses the B7TLs that were new on the route in late 2004.
Glasgow between 10pm and 11pm last night was busy with the pubs kicking out at 10pm. I took a number 6 service from Union St at 2231. Our bus didn't get out of the town until around 11pm. It was a shock after a day out in England.

 

[PaulMc7]

4 getting new buses is interesting, still uses the B7TLs that were new on the route in late 2004.
Glasgow between 10pm and 11pm last night was busy with the pubs kicking out at 10pm. Took a number 6 service from Union St at 2231. Our bus didn't get out of the town until around 11pm. Was a shock after a day out in England.

It's definitely getting busier each week here. Noticed plenty of "bus full" on the 1C especially when I was looking at the app. It's quite a surprise though that that's the case given the number of complaints flying around on social media regarding social distancing on the bus and having to sit next to people. Plenty also tagging the government and Nicola Sturgeon in tweets too.

For me, it's great to see us a step closer to normality on the bus. It makes me slightly less worried about post-covid passenger numbers than I was earlier during this.

 

[GALLANTON]

4 getting new buses is interesting, still uses the B7TLs that were new on the route in late 2004.
Glasgow between 10pm and 11pm last night was busy with the pubs kicking out at 10pm. Took a number 6 service from Union St at 2231. Our bus didn't get out of the town until around 11pm. Was a shock after a day out in England.

Nobody has confirmed that the 4 is getting new buses.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

4 getting new buses is interesting, still uses the B7TLs that were new on the route in late 2004.
Glasgow between 10pm and 11pm last night was busy with the pubs kicking out at 10pm. Took a number 6 service from Union St at 2231. Our bus didn't get out of the town until around 11pm. Was a shock after a day out in England.

The 4 did originally get the 65 plate E400MMCs when new when they were brought in to replace the E500s. It’s a route that used to be really busy but now doesn’t see the numbers it used to. I wouldn’t be surprised if it got new buses however.

 

[route101]

Nobody has confirmed that the 4 is getting new buses.

Yes, I realise.

It's definitely getting busier each week here. Noticed plenty of "bus full" on the 1C especially when I was looking at the app. It's quite a surprise though that that's the case given the number of complaints flying around on social media regarding social distancing on the bus and having to sit next to people. Plenty also tagging the government and Nicola Sturgeon in tweets too.

For me, it's great to see us a step closer to normality on the bus. It makes me slightly less worried about post-covid passenger numbers than I was earlier during this.

I noticed a few people standing on a 9A last night. Still not had anyone sit next to me. I did have to stand on a Blackpool Tram yesterday. Though people were standing rather than sitting next to a stranger.

The 6 last night out of town had a good load (E400). Was running 25 minutes late, so stopped at most stops.

 

[overthewater]

The 4 did originally get the 65 plate E400MMCs when new when they were brought in to replace the E500s. It’s a route that used to be really busy but now doesn’t see the numbers it used to. I wouldn’t be surprised if it got new buses however.

Does the No4 still get alot of Uni Traffic? If it doesn't First might hold off for another year.

 

[PaulMc7]

Does the No4 still get alot of Uni Traffic? If it doesn't First might hold off for another year.

Not used the 4/4A in quite a while but even 2/3 years ago a lot of the uni traffic on it disappeared. Most students seem to go for the subway or walk into the city centre.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The 4 getting new buses is interesting; it still uses the B7TLs that were new on the route in late 2004.
Glasgow between 10pm and 11pm last night was busy with the pubs kicking out at 10pm. I took a number 6 service from Union St at 2231. Our bus didn't get out of the town until around 11pm. It was a shock after a day out in England.

As mentioned above no one has confirmed that the 4 is getting new buses, it has just been speculated that it is a possible route. Just because a service uses the oldest vehicles in the fleet or isn't the busiest route it doesn't mean it won't get new vehicles. Often new vehicles will be allocated to a service where the operator can see room for potential growth.

We can probably safely rule the 6 out as there's no deckers currently on the market under 13ft 9. Again purely speculative but the ideal outcome here would be to refurbish the existing E400s to a similar standard that the Geminis were done for the 61.

 

[sannox]

Not used the 4/4A in quite a while but even 2/3 years ago a lot of the uni traffic on it disappeared. Most students seem to go for the subway or walk into the city centre.

The cut back to Broomhill killed the passenger numbers on the western end of the route. Combined with a frequency reduction, there is no point in students waiting for a 30 minute bus when the subway is every 5 minutes.

When it was 10/12 mins the uni flows were good, and people used to connect onto the 4 outside Central.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

It’s strange to think the 4 was one of the busiest routes at one point. It was streamline along with the very frequent 62 at the time and it always had the newest buses.

 

[PaulMc7]

The cut back to Broomhill, killed the passenger numbers on the western end of the route. Combined with a frequency reduction, there is no point in students waiting for a 30 minute bus when the subway is every 5 minutes.

When it was 10/12 mins the uni flows were good, and people used to connect onto the 4 outside Central.

I absolutely agree. I left school in 2012 but I used the 44 after school every single day and there was enough of us for about 4/5 of them between 3/4 bus stops at one point. It was also pretty quick to Lincoln Avenue from the city centre with not as many chances to get stuck in traffic either. I always found that once it got onto Woodlands Road it was always fairly quick. It was certainly a handy alternative compared to using anything through Dumbarton Road or Great Western Road.

First cutting route or frequency seems to absolutely butcher bus use in some cases. The 16 is another case of it too. I can't actually think of a time I've actually seen it busy since it got cut from Drumchapel and started only running to Blairdardie.

I also remember it with the 42 as well. It was fine pre-simplicity between Partick and Drumchapel but when the 1C came in and the 42 only ran to Garscadden from Partick it got a lot quieter outside of school times. I also know it didn't help in the east end either. The 38B doesn't seem as well used through Carntyne/Greenfield as the 42 was at the time.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Passenger travel patterns and trends change over time, it's only natural that certain routes will get more frequent while others gradually will get less so, particularly in a high density city network where many people have multiple options. That said the 4 has only reduced from a 10 minute frequency to a 15 minute frequency so hardly anything major.

 

[GALLANTON]

I wonder if there would be any benefit to extending the 4 from Broomhill to the QEU hospital

 

[route101]

I wonder if there would be any benefit to extending the 4 from Broomhill to the QEU hospital

Don't think there is a need as the 16/90 and 8 does the job.

As for many services, I think rail has taken passengers off the buses.

It’s strange to think the 4 was one of the busiest routes at one point. It was streamline along with the very frequent 62 at the time and it always had the newest buses.

The 4 still gets good loads at peak southbound. Quicker service than the 6 out of City.

As mentioned above no one has confirmed that the 4 is getting new buses, it has just been speculated that it is a possible route. Just because a service uses the oldest vehicles in the fleet or isn't the busiest route it doesn't mean it won't get new vehicles. Often new vehicles will be allocated to a service where the operator can see room for potential growth.

We can probably safely rule the 6 out as there's no deckers currently on the market under 13ft 9. Again purely speculative but the ideal outcome here would be to refurbish the existing E400s to a similar standard that the Geminis were done for the 61.

In ideal world refurbish the low height E400s and keep them on the 6.

 

[PaulMc7]

I wonder if there would be any benefit to extending the 4 from Broomhill to the QEU hospital

The 8 and 16 aren't particularly busy a lot of the time because the 77 hoovers up practically all of the passengers so I doubt it would work.


On the subject of First's success in Glasgow, there's actually been a decent amount of it in amongst services disappearing if you go through the list of services that run now.

I'd consider "The One" and 77 as the main successes but there are definitely others with some services that have stayed strong in the last few years. The 3 has improved frequency since the days of the 23, the 18 increased although that came from the removal of the 16 and then there are services like the 61 and 75 that remain ridiculously strong. It'll be interesting to see what changes occur in order to try and keep passenger numbers high while keeping costs down.

 

[route101]

The 8 and 16 aren't particularly busy a lot of the time because the 77 hoovers up practically all of the passengers so I doubt it would work.


On the subject of First's success in Glasgow, there's actually been a decent amount of it in amongst services disappearing if you go through the list of services that run now.

I'd consider "The One" and 77 as the main successes but there are definitely others with some services that have stayed strong in the last few years. The 3 has improved frequency since the days of the 23, the 18 increased although that came from the removal of the 16 and then there are services like the 61 and 75 that remain ridiculously strong. It'll be interesting to see what changes occur in order to try and keep passenger numbers high while keeping costs down.

75 is a service that does well, busy quite often during the day. Helped by demographic and no rail link to Castlemilk.

Renfield St roadworks causing chaos today, buses bunching up.

77 is frequent and that helps usage.