First Greater Glasgow

[voidwxrranty]

These AI timetables are horrendous, no clockface timing each hour and frequencies all over the place. Looking at the recently revised 1 group of services, when the 1C was first introduced it was every 20 mins with roughly 10-13 mins layovers using 5 buses, it is now anything between 18-25 min frequency with 5-6min layovers now using 4 buses. Basically little to no recovery time built in.

Yes as by the AI's thinking, drivers don't need a break every couple of hours.

 

[Volvodart]

These AI timetables are horrendous, no clockface timing each hour and frequencies all over the place. Looking at the recently revised 1 group of services, when the 1C was first introduced it was every 20 mins with roughly 10-13 mins layovers using 5 buses, it is now anything between 18-25 min frequency with 5-6min layovers now using 4 buses. Basically little to no recovery time built in.

They are making the case for those that want franchising to go ahead. They made a lot of money in the latest accounts, all that was required was usually putting on another bus to maintain clockface departures.

 

[Jordan1296]

These AI timetables are horrendous, no clockface timing each hour and frequencies all over the place. Looking at the recently revised 1 group of services, when the 1C was first introduced it was every 20 mins with roughly 10-13 mins layovers using 5 buses, it is now anything between 18-25 min frequency with 5-6min layovers now using 4 buses. Basically little to no recovery time built in.

It’s also not very popular with passengers, who like to “time the bus right” and not have to think when a roughly 20 minute service will appear; whether at xx00, xx19 or xx39.

 

[camro]

These AI timetables are horrendous, no clockface timing each hour and frequencies all over the place. Looking at the recently revised 1 group of services, when the 1C was first introduced it was every 20 mins with roughly 10-13 mins layovers using 5 buses, it is now anything between 18-25 min frequency with 5-6min layovers now using 4 buses. Basically little to no recovery time built in.

I think the lack of clockface timing is a sign of it being less relied on than it used to be. I always use First's GPS tracker to find out when my bus is coming, since the set times, whether clockface or not, are often not met. GPS is certainly the most reliable way to know when a bus is coming, all you need is a sort of sense of how long it's going to be based on where it is, which you get used to especially at your routine stops.

I think there should be more of an incentive to show passengers data based on GPS at stops and stations. Like big screens that show them on the map or smaller screens with a linear visual of the 5-8 previous stops, like in the image I've attached.

If AI is going to mess up clockface timing to better the reliability, then this would be a good measure of adaptation.

 

[G42]

I'd say clockface departures are becoming an irrelevance. You only need to observe how often people study the printed timetables at a bus station versus looking up at the live screens and/or their phone. For your average passenger, they want to know that the bus will arrive on time - they're not going to be standing there an hour before or an hour after, do they really care that it's not xx19 consistently? The advent of Google Maps and live departure data has changed how we plan our journeys. It's only anoraks (of which I include myself) and OAPs who 'get' buses to the degree that they can rhyme off the timetable.

I can't speak for all services in the forthcoming changes, but I know of at least one route which will see an additional bus to maintain the timetable. It's no longer clockface but I'd say the average punter doesn't care so long as it shows up when it's supposed to.

From a driver's perspective - I'm also happier knowing the layover times are achievable. There's little point in having a clockface departure which (on paper) gives you 20 minutes of a layover but in reality you'll be lucky to get two. I'd sooner have a timetable that was achievable - taking into account the peaks and troughs along the way.

 

[Metal Mickey]

I'd say clockface departures are becoming an irrelevance. You only need to observe how often people study the printed timetables at a bus station versus looking up at the live screens and/or their phone. For your average passenger, they want to know that the bus will arrive on time - they're not going to be standing there an hour before or an hour after, do they really care that it's not xx19 consistently? The advent of Google Maps and live departure data has changed how we plan our journeys. It's only anoraks (of which I include myself) and OAPs who 'get' buses to the degree that they can rhyme off the timetable.

I can't speak for all services in the forthcoming changes, but I know of at least one route which will see an additional bus to maintain the timetable. It's no longer clockface but I'd say the average punter doesn't care so long as it shows up when it's supposed to.

From a driver's perspective - I'm also happier knowing the layover times are achievable. There's little point in having a clockface departure which (on paper) gives you 20 minutes of a layover but in reality you'll be lucky to get two. I'd sooner have a timetable that was achievable - taking into account the peaks and troughs along the way.

Do these timetables have the ability to factor in roadworks and other unforeseen events within the network? If not then layover will be swallowed up therefore the timetable being simplified or not will make no difference.

 

[G42]

The fact of the matter is many of the existing timetables are unachievable without even throwing roadworks into the mix.

Take evenings for example - there is little point in a timetable that is rammed for the first two trips with (effectively) no layover, then as the night goes on you find yourself sitting at every timing point. All for the sake of saying this bus comes to this stop at 19 minutes past every hour.

If the timetable takes into account passenger loading, traffic etc - at least you have a fighting chance of getting things back on track should there be something unforeseen. Nothing will ever be perfect, but revising routes that haven't been looked at since the height of Covid is a good start.

 

[Metal Mickey]

Nothing will ever be perfect, but revising routes that haven't been looked at since the height of Covid is a good start.

That’s easier said than done. If only there were enough City Centre terminal point options outwith Buchanan Bus Station to allow for the splitting of routes.

 

[voidwxrranty]

That’s easier said than done. If only there were enough City Centre terminal point options outwith Buchanan Bus Station to allow for the splitting of routes.

there is two between Bath Street and Sauchiehall Street, Holland Street & Douglas Street.

they could be used effectively, for, for example short 4/4A workings.

 

[Metal Mickey]

there is two between Bath Street and Sauchiehall Street, Holland Street & Douglas Street.

they could be used effectively, for, for example short 4/4A workings.

I’m sure Douglas Street is already in use and there’s building work that’s been on for a long time at the junction on Bath Street at Holland Street.

 

[voidwxrranty]

I’m sure Douglas Street is already in use and there’s building work that’s been on for a long time at the junction on Bath Street at Holland Street.

Yes. temporarily by service 18. was used by service 10 before that.

 

[LT02 NVV]

These AI timetables are horrendous, no clockface timing each hour and frequencies all over the place. Looking at the recently revised 1 group of services, when the 1C was first introduced it was every 20 mins with roughly 10-13 mins layovers using 5 buses, it is now anything between 18-25 min frequency with 5-6min layovers now using 4 buses. Basically little to no recovery time built in.

I swear it’s 3 buses at some points too.

 

[voidwxrranty]

I swear it’s 3 buses at some points too.

yep. mostly at night.

 

[LT02 NVV]

yep. mostly at night.

Probably because the one Electric E200EV they have on it in the day goes off quicker.

Also, I really hope that with the Enviro 400s coming back, they get allocated to the 1C more often, since there’s no real use for putting deckers on the M60 or 81.

 

[voidwxrranty]

Probably because the one Electric E200EV they have on it in the day goes off quicker.

Also, I really hope that with the Enviro 400s coming back, they get allocated to the 1C more often, since there’s no real use for putting deckers on the M60 or 81.

Yes.

Personally I'd rather a few of Caledonia's SO68's for it, they're better at pulling away etc. the E400 Classics are slow and dreadful. lol.

 

[route101]

Always seems to split hairs but the low heights are best on the 6, especially when there gaps between buses.

 

[LT02 NVV]

Yes.

Personally I'd rather a few of Caledonia's SO68's for it, they're better at pulling away etc. the E400 Classics are slow and dreadful. lol.

One of them has been the Scotstoun one for years now. 34361 has been the odd one out with the Enviro 400 MMCs there.

 

[camro]

Thought I'd make mention that following the return of all but two native E400's, a number of Geminis and E300s have transferred from Scotstoun to Caley. Two Geminis ended up being my commute today - 37548 to Glasgow and 37743 back.

Hopefully this is the start of better allocations for Caley. None of the E400s are theirs but if Geminis are getting taken over instead then that's actually fine, both the E400s and Geminis are in similar conditions on average despite as much as a 4 year age difference for some.

I suppose my big question is this, Caley are keeping their Eclipses, taking in Scotstoun stuff and have virtually conquered the E200EV problem that caused all these loans in the first place, so how much of a shortage is there still in Caley? Is it benign? Or is it still a large problem that anxiously begs the transferal of ex-Mancs stuff from Aberdeen, more withdrawn Eclipses from Bradford, or really anything from anywhere that can serve Glasgow reasonably well?

I hope someone here may have the answers, even vague ones. Thanks

 

[Volvodart]

Is it benign? Or is it still a large problem that anxiously begs the transferal of ex-Mancs stuff from Aberdeen, more withdrawn Eclipses from Bradford, or really anything from anywhere that can serve Glasgow reasonably well?

The "ex Mancs" are not going to Glasgow they will be going south to an E400 depot, First West Yorkshire was mentioned, but I have not seen it confirmed. Part of the answer to your question will be the frequency increases next week.

 

[camro]

The "ex Mancs" are not going to Glasgow they will be going south to an E400 depot,

I was speaking of the Geminis. I know the 12 plater E400s are going elsewhere

 

[Volvodart]

I was speaking of the Geminis. I know the 12 plater E400s are going elsewhere

Most of the Geminis are staying in Aberdeen until all the hydrogen buses return, which is likely to be next year, if the Green Hydrogen project in Harness is on time.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

The "ex Mancs" are not going to Glasgow they will be going south to an E400 depot, First West Yorkshire was mentioned, but I have not seen it confirmed. Part of the answer to your question will be the frequency increases next week.

That would suggest Halifax - they are the one West Yorkshire depot that have begun to standardise on E400s when they can get hold of them.

 

[LT02 NVV]

Thought I'd make mention that following the return of all but two native E400's, a number of Geminis and E300s have transferred from Scotstoun to Caley. Two Geminis ended up being my commute today - 37548 to Glasgow and 37743 back.

Hopefully this is the start of better allocations for Caley. None of the E400s are theirs but if Geminis are getting taken over instead then that's actually fine, both the E400s and Geminis are in similar conditions on average despite as much as a 4 year age difference for some.

I suppose my big question is this, Caley are keeping their Eclipses, taking in Scotstoun stuff and have virtually conquered the E200EV problem that caused all these loans in the first place, so how much of a shortage is there still in Caley? Is it benign? Or is it still a large problem that anxiously begs the transferal of ex-Mancs stuff from Aberdeen, more withdrawn Eclipses from Bradford, or really anything from anywhere that can serve Glasgow reasonably well?

I hope someone here may have the answers, even vague ones. Thanks

Pretty sure out of the Geminis Scotstoun will be keeping a handful of them once a lot of the Enviro 400s come back from Aberdeen.

Also, why don’t they just stick the E400s on the 1C? It seems like a waste to have one of them out on 81 (which doesn’t even need double deckers), but it still happened today.

 

[camro]

Pretty sure out of the Geminis Scotstoun will be keeping a handful of them once a lot of the Enviro 400s come back from Aberdeen.

Also, why don’t they just stick the E400s on the 1C? It seems like a waste to have one of them out on 81 (which doesn’t even need double deckers), but it still happened today.

You get more deckers on the 1s than on the 81 for sure, you're forgetting how many things the allocator has to bear in mind before making that decision to take deckers onto low capacity routes.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Also, why don’t they just stick the E400s on the 1C? It seems like a waste to have one of them out on 81 (which doesn’t even need double deckers), but it still happened today.

The 1C handles single deckers fine. You’re also forgetting the point mentioned many times before the 81 is the last route out of the depo if a bus is defective at the start of service and gets a quick fix chances are it will end up on the 81. no depot allocator is sitting in the scotstoun office thinking “yes we’ll put a decker on the 81 because that route really needs it” which you seem to think

 

[LT02 NVV]

The 1C handles single deckers fine. You’re also forgetting the point mentioned many times before the 81 is the last route out of the depo if a bus is defective at the start of service and gets a quick fix chances are it will end up on the 81. no depot allocator is sitting in the scotstoun office thinking “yes we’ll put a decker on the 81 because that route really needs it” which you seem to think

I beg to differ with the experiences I’ve had with 3-5pm peak-time buses out of Glasgow to Drumchapel.

But the 81 one thing is something I’m glad to know again (IDK why I keep forgetting it).

 

[route101]

Good to see the E400 low heights back in Glasgow and back on the 6, which they are intended for.

Surprised the Eclipse's are still hanging around.

Nothing particularly interesting with the service changes, wonder if we will see a new route, extension or big change to an existing route at some point?

 

[LT02 NVV]

Surprised the Eclipse's are still hanging around.

Yeah, Glasgow are probably just waiting for their MOTs to go out, since they have no use being returned back to their original depots.

 

[camro]

Yeah, Glasgow are probably just waiting for their MOTs to go out, since they have no use being returned back to their original depots.

No they'll definitely be set for another MOT if shortages are still a big problem.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Yeah, Glasgow are probably just waiting for their MOTs to go out, since they have no use being returned back to their original depots.

They're staying put for now, They've got a use being up here so they'll be prepped for MOT when nearer the time