First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)

[Graham Alexand]

So is the X23 back? or is the X22 taking a long detour around Livingston before heading to Edinburgh! sorry I don’t understand!

It has been registered like that for a while.

By the looks of things, it's just the normal X22, but is still displaying the old X23 route number and the even older X23 service, that used to run through Broxburn, Uphall, Uphall Station, Houstoun Industrial Estate and Craigshill between August 2018 and January 2020.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

If money was no object and baring in mind First are swaying towards electric - how would you improve the FSE fleet?

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

If money was no object and baring in mind First are swaying towards electric - how would you improve the FSE fleet?

It’s difficult to answer without knowing the issues that first, bus builders and importantly the government are trying to solve.

First have said that by 2035 all there buses will be zero emission, a lofty goal, doable? Perhaps, but the current electric fleet outside some rumoured yutongs have proved that the ADL Enviro EVs by BYD lack enough range to fulfil many of the routes the company currently run.

So I’ll forget all of that and let my imagination run wild.

The 3 & 4 would be electric Volvo BZL Singles, the UL Service electric Volvo BZL Deckers.

The x36, x37, x38 would get new diesel MCV Evoras @12.9m(those that Lothian Buses have)

The 38, extended wheelbase Volvo B5 diesels with comfier seating, the route extended to include Springfield & Raploch.

The 1 & 59 would get the current B7 eclipses but mechanically overhauled & refurbished inside & out, with newer style front bodywork fitted.

The Enviro 300’s on the 51 & 52 heavily refurbished as well.

The Springkerse/Castleview P&R services, the P1 & P2 would be taken underwing and operated by several 11.6m Enviro 200 BYD singles taken from Glasgows Fleet, they certainly would not have range issues on the P1/P2.

All new vehicles would have Alloys Wheels, the mirror polished ones, not the dull lifeless durabrights fitted to Glasgows BYDs EVs.

Brightbus would be moved to a new premises somewhere closer to Edinburgh as well as New Volvo B5L S-Charge Hybrids, obviously with open-top bodywork.

The rest of Livingston depot would be divested to Lothian Country.

 

[Observer]

It appears First are handing back the 20 / 63 / 68 services. Who knows who will take them on.

Three 'lifeline' Edinburgh bus services to be axed due to driver shortage

First Buses' decision to discontinue the 20, 63 and 68 from the end of next month will have a "devastating impact," the council's transport boss said.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

Rural communities in west Edinburgh are at risk of losing public transport links with the rest of the city amid an operator's plan to cut "lifeline" bus services in response to driver shortages.

First Buses said it will discontinue three council -subsidised buses it has run over the last two years when the contract is up at the end of August.

Unless action is taken to save the services the move will result in the loss of the 20, 63 and 68 which connect communities including Gyle, Balerno, Queensferry, Ratho, Kirkliston and Chesser with the rest of the capital.

Councillor Kevin Lang, who represents the affected Almond ward, stressed that such an outcome would be a "disaster" and called on the council-owned Lothian Buses to "step in" and extend its services out to the rural west of the city.

A group representing the interests of bus users across Edinburgh said it came as "really bad news" as in some cases it could see villages' only transport links axed.

Edinburgh City Council has paid First to operate buses along the routes since August 2020 after contracts were put out to tender.

The contracts, agreed for an initial period of two years, included options to extend the deal by a further year twice, however it's understood First do not want to continue the arrangement beyond the end of next month.

A briefing to councillors explained the decision had been taken partly as a result of driver shortages, with some reportedly leaving the sector to work as delivery drivers with companies such as Amazon.

The council has initiated talks with Lothian Buses and other local operators in an effort to find a solution before the services cease running. One possibility could see existing Lothian routes amended to 'fill the gaps' left by the cuts.

However, the publicly-owned company is expected to announce "small changes" of its own to services which will be "acutely felt by some people" from September, according to the council's transport convener Scott Arthur.

Highlighting the issue of bus driver shortages on Twitter, Cllr Arthur directed his followers to the Lothian Buses website where people are being urged to consider training as drivers.

Lib Dem councillor Kevin Lang expressed grave concern for his west constituents if the three services stop running next month.

He said: "The loss of these lifeline bus services would be a disaster for the communities in the rural west of Edinburgh. These are villages which are already under-served by public transport. If you take the case of Kirkliston you don't even have the council-owned Lothian buses operating in that village.

"So every effort needs to be made with First to try and get them to reconsider their position or to at least continue this service while an alternative arrangement is put in place.

"But if they won't then we need to urgently find an alternative provider and it still angers me that Lothian Buses, as the council-owned bus service, has not been more committed to serving these communities that are part of the City of Edinburgh.

"These people are as deserving of services from the council-owned bus services as someone in Leith or the City Centre or Morningside.

"They have continually been let down and short-changed by Lothian Buses and this is an opportunity for Lothian to show a greater commitment to these parts of the city.

"I think it is simply unacceptable for the council-owned bus company to say 'we are not interested in serving parts of the City of Edinburgh."

A spokesperson for Edinburgh Bus Users Group (EBUG) said the situation "shows the serious impact driver shortages are having across the whole of the UK bus industry".

They added: "This is really bad news for communities in west Edinburgh.

"The 20 in particular is Ratho's connection to the rest of Edinburgh. We've pointed out how simple changes could be made to improve it; now it seems the whole route's under threat."

The council's transport convener said he was disappointed at the decision which will have a "devastating impact on individuals" whilst making it "harder for Edinburgh to meet its climate change targets".

Cllr Scott Arthur, Labour, added: "Officers are, however, discussing all options with them to try and ensure some level of service continues beyond the contract end date of 30 August this year.

"This will give us breathing space to put alternative provision in place, and officers are now investigating long-term solutions as a matter of urgency.

"It is clear that driver shortages and other issues are affecting the entire bus operator industry, but efforts to find a replacement will continue over the coming months, and the community will be kept up to date.”

A spokesperson for First Scotland East said: “We can confirm our existing contract with City of Edinburgh Council to run services 20, 63 and 68 is due to come to an end on 30 th August 2022.

“We remain in open discussion with City of Edinburgh Council as part of the process and it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.”

The Springkerse/Castleview P&R services, the P1 & P2 would be taken underwing and operated by several 11.6m Enviro 200 BYD singles taken from Glasgows Fleet, they certainly would not have range issues on the P1/P2.

First do not operate these and my understanding is Stirling Council are procuring electric buses for this.

Roads, transport and parking | Stirling Council

Roads, public transport and parking information and services, including service updates, bus passes and parking permits

stirling.gov.uk

Stirling Council submitted a bid to Transport Scotland’s Scottish Zero Emission Bus (ScotZEB) Challenge Fund on Wednesday 1st December 2021.

This bid was for grant funding to assist in the purchase of 3 electric buses and associated electric charging infrastructure.

 

[stevenedin]

It appears First are handing back the 20 / 63 / 68 services. Who knows who will take them on.

Three 'lifeline' Edinburgh bus services to be axed due to driver shortage

First Buses' decision to discontinue the 20, 63 and 68 from the end of next month will have a "devastating impact," the council's transport boss said.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

First do not operate these and my understanding is Stirling Council are procuring electric buses for this.

Roads, transport and parking | Stirling Council

Roads, public transport and parking information and services, including service updates, bus passes and parking permits

stirling.gov.uk

That’s sad news about First not extending the contract but I understand if they don’t have the resources to operate them. I do agree with the article though. Lothian Buses should be obliged to operate a service within the whole of Edinburgh but that side of the discussion is for another group.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

It appears First are handing back the 20 / 63 / 68 services. Who knows who will take them on.

Three 'lifeline' Edinburgh bus services to be axed due to driver shortage

First Buses' decision to discontinue the 20, 63 and 68 from the end of next month will have a "devastating impact," the council's transport boss said.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

First do not operate these and my understanding is Stirling Council are procuring electric buses for this.

Roads, transport and parking | Stirling Council

Roads, public transport and parking information and services, including service updates, bus passes and parking permits

stirling.gov.uk

There now loosing to much in West Lothian and this is a realisation that if they don’t do something it will be good bye for Livingston.

I say this because they are undoubtedly offering a worse service than LC in West Lothian.

Perhaps there even under the embargo that if they pull from these tendered routes then Lothian City will take them on and deprive LC of drivers, I doubt that also but still.

That’s sad news about First not extending the contract but I understand if they don’t have the resources to operate them. I do agree with the article though. Lothian Buses should be obliged to operate a service within the whole of Edinburgh but that side of the discussion is for another group.

Good New in the long run if Lothian does take them back over.

Case anyone wasn’t aware I drove at Livingston Depot for a short time, the streetlites used on these are forever becoming faulty, adding to an u reliable service, the best thing it could’ve done for these areas.

 

[jb66]

Ratho is such a difficult place to cover, it's just so out the way to have a meaningful bus service

 

[JurassicMan]

It appears First are handing back the 20 / 63 / 68 services. Who knows who will take them on.

Three 'lifeline' Edinburgh bus services to be axed due to driver shortage

First Buses' decision to discontinue the 20, 63 and 68 from the end of next month will have a "devastating impact," the council's transport boss said.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

First do not operate these and my understanding is Stirling Council are procuring electric buses for this.

Roads, transport and parking | Stirling Council

Roads, public transport and parking information and services, including service updates, bus passes and parking permits

stirling.gov.uk

For the best, as drivers number for these services was causing the issue in West lothian and forcing cancellations, that should now be the only target for first to ensure a proper service is in place for people who choose or due to location are forced to use First bus. It may take time but lets be honest there is no loyalty in public transport and the majority will use the bus that turns up, especially now with so many free passes in circulation.

 

[Auld reekie]

For the best, as drivers number for these services was causing the issue in West lothian and forcing cancellations, that should now be the only target for first to ensure a proper service is in place for people who choose or due to location are forced to use First bus. It may take time but lets be honest there is no loyalty in public transport and the majority will use the bus that turns up, especially now with so many free passes in circulation.

That's the spirit.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

If money was no object and baring in mind First are swaying towards electric - how would you improve the FSE fleet?

Doubles

Volvo Ailsa/Alexander
Volvo Citybus/Alexander
Leyland Olympian TL11/Eastern Counties for low hanging bridges

Singles

Volvo B10M/Alexander PS
Leyland Tiger/Alexander
Leyland Leopard/Alexander

Minis

MCW Metrorider

All indestructible machines

 

[overthewater]

Well done Edinburgh live for continuing the gutter press of misleading lies... I think we all know who is going to bid for No20 and 63 however its unclear who will bid for the No68.

 

[JurassicMan]

That's the spirit.

Ain't that the truth

 

[exeter 50044]

Waverley travel will probably bid for the 68 as they ran it before

 

[PaulMc7]

For the best, as drivers number for these services was causing the issue in West lothian and forcing cancellations, that should now be the only target for first to ensure a proper service is in place for people who choose or due to location are forced to use First bus. It may take time but lets be honest there is no loyalty in public transport and the majority will use the bus that turns up, especially now with so many free passes in circulation.

This is spot on to be fair. If First can get to a point where they run timetables on every service that they have the resources for they'll be fine in West Lothian. It may see some more cuts to do that but people will absolutely use them if they are guaranteed to turn up.

 

[Busman757]

So looks like First representatives have met with CEC regarding the 20, 63 and 68.

Briefing note from the Public Transport Manager, City of Edinburgh council…

• First Bus Supported Bus Service Contracts

First Services 20, 63, 68
Update following meeting with First Bus on 29 July 2022

Background:

On 5 March 2020, Finance and Resources Committee approved the award of three supported bus service contracts to the operator First Bus. These services are:

• Service 20 (Ratho to Chesser)
• Service 63 (Queensferry to Balerno)
• Service 68 (Turnhouse to Gyle)

The contracts were awarded for an initial 2-year period commencing Summer 2020 with 2 further 12-month options to extend.
Previously it was reported that First Bus were not minded to accept contract extensions due to lack of driver resource. This may have meant that services could have ceased to operate at contract end date of 30 August 2022.

There was significant concern that this date would not allow sufficient time to procure alternative provision. Discussions have been ongoing and officers met with First Bus representatives again on 29 July to investigate any possibility of continuing services beyond 30 August.

First Bus has now agreed that they will be able to continue at least some level of service beyond the 30 August. The precise details are yet to be agreed and First Bus will submit proposed timetables for officers to review. This will reflect a reduced level of service in order for First Bus to operate with their limited driver resource but will at least ensure that the communities served by these bus services will not be cut-off.

First Bus are working extremely hard on driver recruitment and are hopeful that the current situation will improve over the coming weeks/months. This recruitment process may allow greater level of service to resume and perhaps contract extensions to be agreed, however, alternative provision and procurement processes will continue to be investigated in the meantime.

It is unknown if they are taking the 12 month extension or a continuing until another operate takes the routes.

 

[stevenedin]

It would be nice if they could make it work but I still feel like Ratho needs a bus to go to the city centre.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I’m not sure how accurate bustimes.org is with the FSE fleet. Does anyone know how many Omnidekka’s are left and how many solars?

 

[overthewater]

So looks like First representatives have met with CEC regarding the 20, 63 and 68.

Briefing note from the Public Transport Manager, City of Edinburgh council…

• First Bus Supported Bus Service Contracts

First Services 20, 63, 68
Update following meeting with First Bus on 29 July 2022

Background:

On 5 March 2020, Finance and Resources Committee approved the award of three supported bus service contracts to the operator First Bus. These services are:

• Service 20 (Ratho to Chesser)
• Service 63 (Queensferry to Balerno)
• Service 68 (Turnhouse to Gyle)

The contracts were awarded for an initial 2-year period commencing Summer 2020 with 2 further 12-month options to extend.
Previously it was reported that First Bus were not minded to accept contract extensions due to lack of driver resource. This may have meant that services could have ceased to operate at contract end date of 30 August 2022.

There was significant concern that this date would not allow sufficient time to procure alternative provision. Discussions have been ongoing and officers met with First Bus representatives again on 29 July to investigate any possibility of continuing services beyond 30 August.

First Bus has now agreed that they will be able to continue at least some level of service beyond the 30 August. The precise details are yet to be agreed and First Bus will submit proposed timetables for officers to review. This will reflect a reduced level of service in order for First Bus to operate with their limited driver resource but will at least ensure that the communities served by these bus services will not be cut-off.

First Bus are working extremely hard on driver recruitment and are hopeful that the current situation will improve over the coming weeks/months. This recruitment process may allow greater level of service to resume and perhaps contract extensions to be agreed, however, alternative provision and procurement processes will continue to be investigated in the meantime.

It is unknown if they are taking the 12 month extension or a continuing until another operate takes the routes.

Do you have a link to the report on the council website? It's still possible the council could put the 2020 tender back out and see what happens and changes take place in October?

 

[ScotRail158725]

I’m not sure how accurate bustimes.org is with the FSE fleet. Does anyone know how many Omnidekka’s are left and how many solars?

Only 36016 and 36020 withdrawn and about 4 or 5 solars at each depot are still in service

 

[stevenedin]

Midland Bluebird

Scotland's Largest Independent Bus Company

www.firstbus.co.uk

Following a review by Falkirk council of services operated on their behalf, the following changes will take effect from 15th August. Please refer to the Council's website, or contact them directly for any enquiries.

Service	Detail of change	Timetable
1	Revised route & timetable, with minor changes to morning and evening trips. The section of route between Maddison - Linlithgow will pass to another operator. The route section between Linlithgow and Bridgend will no longer operate.	Click to view timetable.
2	Revised Monday-Saturday timetables to morning and evening journeys. Sunday tendered journeys to/from Limerigg will not operate. Selected morning and evening journeys to/from Bo'Ness will see minor adjustments.	Click to view timetable.
29	Revised Monday - Saturday timetables will operate. Tendered Sunday journeys will not operate.	Click to view timetable.
F14	No changes to Monday - Saturday journeys. Tendered Sunday journeys will not operate.	Click to view timetable.
6/6A/7	Revised Monday - Saturday timetables will operate. Tendered journeys on service 6A ( between Falkirk- Camelon Ochiltree) will not operate. No changes to Sunday 6A journey Falkirk - FVRH	Click to view timetable.
8	Revised timetables will operate on Saturday morning journeys.	Click here to view timetable
F45	Will be run by a new operator.	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.

The following school services will now be operated on behalf of Falkirk & Stirling Council.

Service	Route	Timetable
612	Bonnybridge – Denny High School	Click to view timetable
677	Larbert Cross – St Mungos High School	Click to view timetable
688	Larbert (The Inches) – St Mungos High School	Click to view timetable
BF4	Killearn to Balfron High School*	Click to view timetable
BF5	Balmaha to Balfron High School*	Click to view timetable
BF6/BF7	Strathblane to Balfron High School*	Click to view timetable
M4	Gartmore – Aberfoyle -McLaren High School*	Click to view timetable

*Operated on behalf of Stirling Council.

The following school services will now be run by a new operator:

Service	Detail of change	Timetable
654​	St.Modans High School – Denny	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
611​	Bonnybridge - Denny High School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
615​	Banknock - St Patrick's PS	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
618​	Longcroft – Denny High School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
619​	Banknock – Denny High School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
194​	Bainsford – Falkirk High School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
195​	Bainsford – Falkirk High School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
601​	Larbert - St Bernadette's Primary School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
651​	Bonnybridge – St Modans High School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
652​	Denny – St Modans High School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
653​	Banknock – St Modans High School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
660​	Limerigg to Slamannan Primary School	Please refer to Falkirk Council for further information.
679​	Lionthorn – St Mungos High School

 

[overthewater]

So the question is, who is running the bus service to whitcross? Maybe it been tied into the 45/46 contract?

 

[Observer]

So the question is, who is running the bus service to whitcross? Maybe it been tied into the 45/46 contract?

Or the F49 too since it was getting a new operator as the current has no interest in running it any more. Maybe Prentice Westwood or even SD Travel?

Seems the new Stirling runs have been taken from Carr's:

Schools | Stirling Council

Schools information and services, including searching for a school, enrolling in a school and applying for free school meals and clothing grants

stirling.gov.uk

Falkirk timetable pages haven't been fully updated yet - you need to check each page individually - some have but still a lot more to be changed. Not just First changing contracts either.

School life - School transport | Falkirk Council

www.falkirk.gov.uk

 

[PaulMc7]

I was in Livingston today and to be honest, from what I seen the buses definitely seemed busier than the last time I was there a few months back. Obviously, the school holidays play a part in that but there should still be decent passenger numbers available for First going forward if they can find a way to sort out reliability.

As for the 20/63/68, I can imagine that covering them must be a nightmare due to the fact they are so out of the way compared to the rest of the network. Arranging breaks/switchovers can't be that simple compared to their other services.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I was in Livingston today and to be honest, from what I seen the buses definitely seemed busier than the last time I was there a few months back. Obviously, the school holidays play a part in that but there should still be decent passenger numbers available for First going forward if they can find a way to sort out reliability.

As for the 20/63/68, I can imagine that covering them must be a nightmare due to the fact they are so out of the way compared to the rest of the network. Arranging breaks/switchovers can't be that simple compared to their other services.

They use electric Renault Zoe for shuttles. The depot has 8 of them plus 2 diesel Transit Connects.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Only 36016 and 36020 withdrawn and about 4 or 5 solars at each depot are still in service

36007 is also now withdrawn.

 

[stevenedin]

Is it true that 32671 and 32682 have both been withdrawn? I saw on bus times. Does anyone know?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Is it true that 32671 and 32682 have both been withdrawn? I saw on bus times. Does anyone know?

Yes they have

 

[stevenedin]

Yes they have

Thanks, do you know if it’s just age or were they quite bad buses?

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Thanks, do you know if it’s just age or were they quite bad buses?

I'd hazard a guess that they are the most knackered.

 

[Volvodart]

They are also in the new livery, which seems to be one of the criteria for withdrawal!