First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[vla50]

6 of the presidents are due to transfer to Wessex this year (according to their fleet manager)

I'm going to assume it'll be the three Sunseeker Presidents perhaps for the 502 and then 3 of the 52 reg batch? Is 32179 going to be working Falmouth again this year?

 

[f23]

that's the assumption

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

6 of the presidents are due to transfer to Wessex this year (along with the sunseeker enviros & solo)

As those Kernow Presidents are quite mature now, are they replacing the 2000 ALXs with 2002 examples for Portland, plus converting the 502 to open top?

A relatively youthful O/T fleet now in Cornwall and certainly a bit of a change from 30 year old VRs and Volvo B10Ms of the past

 

[f23]

As those Kernow Presidents are quite mature now, are they replacing the 2000 ALXs with 2002 examples for Portland, plus converting the 502 to open top?

A relatively youthful O/T fleet now in Cornwall and certainly a bit of a change from 30 year old VRs and Volvo B10Ms of the past

all 6 presidents are additional

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

all 6 presidents are additional

Wow - quite the expansion then

 

[Andyh82]

I'm going to assume it'll be the three Sunseeker Presidents perhaps for the 502 and then 3 of the 52 reg batch? Is 32179 going to be working Falmouth again this year?

The timetables for the 12 & 13 (former 502 & 503) are on the First Wessex website, branded as Sunseeker, both with low season PVRs of 1 bus each and high season PVRs of 2 buses each

There is no mention of what frequency the 501 will have

 

[Goldfish62]

There were several E400’s in Camborne late last week receiving attention. Two had defect stickers on the windscreens.

Must be six of the Land's End Coaster B9s off the road as well.

 

[83G/84D]

I'm going to assume it'll be the three Sunseeker Presidents perhaps for the 502 and then 3 of the 52 reg batch? Is 32179 going to be working Falmouth again this year?

I am not sure how accurate the information is however staff are saying that 32179 is awaiting a service and then will see use on Falmouth Coaster.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The timetables for the 12 & 13 (former 502 & 503) are on the First Wessex website, branded as Sunseeker, both with low season PVRs of 1 bus each and high season PVRs of 2 buses each

There is no mention of what frequency the 501 will have

I keep forgetting that they've renumbered them into the main series!

It MIGHT be that the 13 is home to two of the former Kernow Presidents, whilst the 12 will get the Kernow/Somerset e200s (perhaps with the Solo as a spare?). We shall see. As for the other open toppers bequeathed by First Kernow, perhaps the fleet is showing it's age and so a number of spares are being included to help maintain availability/deal with traffic.

Remember when First had barely a dozen open toppers in the South West, just a few years ago

 

[Goldfish62]

I am not sure how accurate the information is however staff are saying that 32179 is awaiting a service and then will see use on Falmouth Coaster.

I don't see why any of the older open top fleet needs to be used in Cornwall anymore, especially something that is 23 years old. By my reckoning there are 19 open toppers of a mix of E400 and B9TL (including the three Sunseeker ones in the process of delivery) for a peak Summer PVR of 16 with 3 spares:

Land's End Coaster: 8
Atlantic Coaster: 5
Sunseeker: 1
Falmouth Coaster: 1
U4: 1

Marc Huws certainly mentioned earlier in this thread that the Falmouth Coaster vehicle would be upgraded for this year.

I don't see why any of the older open top fleet needs to be used in Cornwall anymore, especially something that is 23 years old. By my reckoning there are 19 open toppers of a mix of E400 and B9TL (including the three Sunseeker ones in the process of delivery) for a peak Summer PVR of 16 with 3 spares:

Land's End Coaster: 8
Atlantic Coaster: 5
Sunseeker: 1
Falmouth Coaster: 1
U4: 1

Marc Huws certainly mentioned earlier in this thread that the Falmouth Coaster vehicle would be upgraded for this year.

Edit: Oops, forgot the Tin Coaster (2 PVR) in my list. So that indeed is tight with just one spare, but even so I'd be surprised if the oldest open topper in the fleet was selected for retention, especially as it has those nasty plastic seats.

 

[f23]

I keep forgetting that they've renumbered them into the main series!

It MIGHT be that the 13 is home to two of the former Kernow Presidents, whilst the 12 will get the Kernow/Somerset e200s (perhaps with the Solo as a spare?). We shall see. As for the other open toppers bequeathed by First Kernow, perhaps the fleet is showing it's age and so a number of spares are being included to help maintain availability/deal with traffic.

Remember when First had barely a dozen open toppers in the South West, just a few years ago

The two e200s will be used on the 13 because it can't use deckers.

Two of the presidents will be used on the 12, It's not clear what the other 4 will be used for yet.

I don't see why any of the older open top fleet needs to be used in Cornwall anymore, especially something that is 23 years old. By my reckoning there are 19 open toppers of a mix of E400 and B9TL (including the three Sunseeker ones in the process of delivery) for a peak Summer PVR of 16 with 3 spares:

Land's End Coaster: 8
Atlantic Coaster: 5
Sunseeker: 1
Falmouth Coaster: 1
U4: 1

Marc Huws certainly mentioned earlier in this thread that the Falmouth Coaster vehicle would be upgraded for this year.


Edit: Oops, forgot the Tin Coaster (2 PVR) in my list. So that indeed is tight with just one spare, but even so I'd be surprised if the oldest open topper in the fleet was selected for retention, especially as it has those nasty plastic seats.

33601 seems like the obvious candidate for the Falmouth coaster because of it's lack of vinyls.

 

[volvob12]

I keep forgetting that they've renumbered them into the main series!

It MIGHT be that the 13 is home to two of the former Kernow Presidents, whilst the 12 will get the Kernow/Somerset e200s (perhaps with the Solo as a spare?). We shall see. As for the other open toppers bequeathed by First Kernow, perhaps the fleet is showing it's age and so a number of spares are being included to help maintain availability/deal with traffic.

2 of the ALX400s have received new engines over the winter and had a refresh. At least some of the additional fleet allow for a new service heading east.

The ice cream van Solo should also be due as a spare for Sunseekers.

 

[Goldfish62]

The two e200s will be used on the 13 because it can't use deckers.

Two of the presidents will be used on the 12, It's not clear what the other 4 will be used for yet.


33601 seems like the obvious candidate for the Falmouth coaster because of it's lack of vinyls.

Agreed.

We still have the mystery of what's going to be branded for the Tin Coaster unless the brand is on paper only and not intended to appear on buses.

Then we have three Sunseeker B9s for a PVR of one.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The two e200s will be used on the 13 because it can't use deckers.

Two of the presidents will be used on the 12, It's not clear what the other 4 will be used for yet.


33601 seems like the obvious candidate for the Falmouth coaster because of it's lack of vinyls.

Sorry - I muddled up. I meant the singles to Waterside. Wretched renumbering!!

 

[f23]

Agreed.

We still have the mystery of what's going to be branded for the Tin Coaster unless the brand is on paper only and not intended to appear on buses.

Then we have three Sunseeker B9s for a PVR of one.

There must have been little time between the decision to withdraw the S1 and the b9s being painted for all 3 to have been painted yellow

 

[Goldfish62]

There must have been little time between the decision to withdraw the S1 and the b9s being painted for all 3 to have been painted yellow

Yes, that's all I can think is the reason.

 

[Ancelljb]

There must have been little time between the decision to withdraw the S1 and the b9s being painted for all 3 to have been painted yellow

In the past, Marc Huws has said that Sunseeker is treated as a generic brand (as seen on the vehicle used for ticket sales at Minehead last year). The U4 is due an open top this year so a Sunseeker may be used on this, and then the third as a spare across the South West?

 

[vla50]

The two e200s will be used on the 13 because it can't use deckers.

Two of the presidents will be used on the 12, It's not clear what the other 4 will be used for yet.


33601 seems like the obvious candidate for the Falmouth coaster because of it's lack of vinyls.

Speculation but perhaps allocations could look like this for this year?

Atlantic Coaster: 33426-428 and 575 (PVR 3 with a spare)
Lands End Coaster: 37789, 791-793, 795-798, 801 (PVR 8 with a spare)
Tin Coaster: 33592 and 601 (PVR 2 with no spare)
Falmouth Coaster: 32179 (PVR 1 with no spare)
Sunseeker/U4: 37736, 737 and 747 (PVR 2 with a spare)

6 B7TLs are being sent off to Weymouth so only 3 B7TL open tops would remain in Kernow that aren't allocated to anything. To prevent Kernow from throwing anything non open top on their open top routes (quite common for closed top buses to work open top routes) and because Tin/Falmouth don't have spares, then it would be quite sensible to keep those 3 as general spares

 

[Goldfish62]

Speculation but perhaps allocations could look like this for this year?

Atlantic Coaster: 33426-428 and 575 (PVR 3 with a spare)
Lands End Coaster: 37789, 791-793, 795-798, 801 (PVR 8 with a spare)
Tin Coaster: 33592 and 601 (PVR 2 with no spare)
Falmouth Coaster: 32179 (PVR 1 with no spare)
Sunseeker/U4: 37736, 737 and 747 (PVR 2 with a spare)

6 B7TLs are being sent off to Weymouth so only 3 B7TL open tops would remain in Kernow that aren't allocated to anything. To prevent Kernow from throwing anything non open top on their open top routes (quite common for closed top buses to work open top routes) and because Tin/Falmouth don't have spares, then it would be quite sensible to keep those 3 as general spares

Yes, all makes sense.

 

[f23]

According to a friend in Weymouth,

Going to Weymouth are 32102, 32103, 32104, 32200, 32202, 32207

Staying are 32179, 32208, 32209, 32211

 

[83G/84D]

I don't see why any of the older open top fleet needs to be used in Cornwall anymore, especially something that is 23 years old. By my reckoning there are 19 open toppers of a mix of E400 and B9TL (including the three Sunseeker ones in the process of delivery) for a peak Summer PVR of 16 with 3 spares:

Land's End Coaster: 8
Atlantic Coaster: 5
Sunseeker: 1
Falmouth Coaster: 1
U4: 1

Marc Huws certainly mentioned earlier in this thread that the Falmouth Coaster vehicle would be upgraded for this year.


Edit: Oops, forgot the Tin Coaster (2 PVR) in my list. So that indeed is tight with just one spare, but even so I'd be surprised if the oldest open topper in the fleet was selected for retention, especially as it has those nasty plastic seats.

Tin Coaster service has no mention of open top service in the new timetable book. I believe it did previously.

 

[henairs]

I keep forgetting that they've renumbered them into the main series!

It MIGHT be that the 13 is home to two of the former Kernow Presidents, whilst the 12 will get the Kernow/Somerset e200s (perhaps with the Solo as a spare?). We shall see. As for the other open toppers bequeathed by First Kernow, perhaps the fleet is showing it's age and so a number of spares are being included to help maintain availability/deal with traffic.

Remember when First had barely a dozen open toppers in the South West, just a few years ago

Yesterday it was Streetlite 47412 on the 13 although that could change once the main holiday season begins.
Mind you last couple of years it’s been Streetlite operated.

 

[GusB]

A post has just been removed because it referred to an external source, but did not include a relevant quote. Please ensure that when you post a link to your source, you should quote the relevant information and ensure that it is enclosed within quote tags.

 

[Busaholic]

Unless Bustimes is giving duff information the Tin Coaster isn't! A Tinner and a Copper are on there!

Can confirm the above.

Actually, I'm going to have a bit of a moan about the branding of both routes and individual buses in the case of the Tinner, the Tin Coaster and the Copper. I was fine with the Tinner routes T1 and T2 and the dedicated Tinner livery on the MMC buses (other than the patronising cod Cornish dialect which should never have got beyond a planning meeting) but the situation since has become a farce - I bet 95% of regular passengers on the routes covered by the three designations could not state with certainty which applied to what. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd be 100% sure of getting it right even after giving it some thought. In those circumstances, the branding can be said to have failed at this moment in time, a triumph of style over substance. Meantime the 'other company' gets more kudos, or less criticism, than before: yes, I know Go Cornwall Bus is operating under different constraints from First, but Joe Public couldn't care less about that even if they knew. The standard of bus driving on the 'red buses' is certainly much improved over the last couple of years, and may even be slightly better than First's average, but that is subjective.

 

[Andyh82]

A ‘Copper’ shouldn’t be anywhere near Penzance depot at the end of the day. Presumably it was put on a Tinner that ends there and will be around that area until the reverse happens

 

[Busaholic]

A ‘Copper’ shouldn’t be anywhere near Penzance depot at the end of the day. Presumably it was put on a Tinner that ends there and will be around that area until the reverse happens

It was on the Tin Coaster arriving in Penzance from Pendeen around 17.20, and I imagine was about to make the return trip.

 

[fgwrich]

Can confirm the above.

Actually, I'm going to have a bit of a moan about the branding of both routes and individual buses in the case of the Tinner, the Tin Coaster and the Copper. I was fine with the Tinner routes T1 and T2 and the dedicated Tinner livery on the MMC buses (other than the patronising cod Cornish dialect which should never have got beyond a planning meeting) but the situation since has become a farce - I bet 95% of regular passengers on the routes covered by the three designations could not state with certainty which applied to what. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd be 100% sure of getting it right even after giving it some thought. In those circumstances, the branding can be said to have failed at this moment in time, a triumph of style over substance. Meantime the 'other company' gets more kudos, or less criticism, than before: yes, I know Go Cornwall Bus is operating under different constraints from First, but Joe Public couldn't care less about that even if they knew. The standard of bus driving on the 'red buses' is certainly much improved over the last couple of years, and may even be slightly better than First's average, but that is subjective.

I hate to say it, and I know I've said it before, but it's now become a case of when is enough too much? The various brands Kernow have are smart, but there's too many of them now. Some seem to have disappeared almost as quickly as they came (day|tripper, UniQue and now sadly The Lizard), but we now have:
The Tinner
Tin Coaster
Coast to Coast (which most vehicles and the route still branded U2)
Lands End Coaster
Falmouth Coaster
The Mousehole
Cornwall Copper

I reckon you could simply things and drop some of those - the seemingly odd Tin Coaster being one of those, and possibly bring Lands End Coaster back under the Atlantic Coaster brand? C to C is the one that I find more frustrating as it seems somewhat confused - is it a tourist route that happens to run via the Uni, or a Uni route that happens to run from Falmouth through to Newquay now. While the transformation of Kernow has been one of the most impressive turn arounds we've seen for years, I think we've reached a point were it's almost gone a little too far - and certainly leads to wrong branded vehicles working services they aren't branded for. As you say, it's become a little too much of style over substance.

 

[jamesr]

I won’t lie, as someone who used to have a fairly intricate knowledge of Penwith bus timetables and geography but has been out of the area for some years, I came back this week and I find the route names fairly confusing (particularly when a Pendeen bus has Copper branding on the side suggesting it runs elsewhere completely). Helped a bunch of Mandarin speaking tourists at Penzance this morning heading for Lands End but about to board a bus to St. Ives. I speak enough to understand they were boarding the wrong bus. Bus numbers, split into non-circular routes, are much easier for non-English speakers.

It feels like an idea better on paper than in practice, bring back the 10A to Pendeen…

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I hate to say it, and I know I've said it before, but it's now become a case of when is enough too much? The various brands Kernow have are smart, but there's too many of them now. Some seem to have disappeared almost as quickly as they came (day|tripper, UniQue and now sadly The Lizard), but we now have:
The Tinner
Tin Coaster
Coast to Coast (which most vehicles and the route still branded U2)
Lands End Coaster
Falmouth Coaster
The Mousehole
Cornwall Copper

I reckon you could simply things and drop some of those - the seemingly odd Tin Coaster being one of those, and possibly bring Lands End Coaster back under the Atlantic Coaster brand? C to C is the one that I find more frustrating as it seems somewhat confused - is it a tourist route that happens to run via the Uni, or a Uni route that happens to run from Falmouth through to Newquay now. While the transformation of Kernow has been one of the most impressive turn arounds we've seen for years, I think we've reached a point were it's almost gone a little too far - and certainly leads to wrong branded vehicles working services they aren't branded for. As you say, it's become a little too much of style over substance.

I tend to agree to an extent, and these are just my views. Unique always seemed superfluous and DayTripper required a lot of painting for what was a bit of an off peak tourist punt IMHO.

The Tinner seemed a sensible move with a high profile route and would say the same again with the Mousehole. Yet with the complex interworking for servicing etc, it's difficult to keep vehicles on routes that are relatively low PVR so The Copper (despite it being a stunning livery) is again a bit much for just a handful of vehicles. Not certain as to what the delay is with getting the Coast 2 Coast branding sorted either.

In respect of the open top tourist routes, the promotion and branding has been a major factor in their growth. So a single Falmouth one, and the Lands End and Atlantic Coasters, I don't have much issue with. Perhaps they just need some generic green ones (rather than Sunseeker) as spares, with a couple more for the Pendeen and Madron routes?

 

[Snozzel]

Just make them all green. Red bus or green bus would be the choice. Its how ppl refer to them anyway speaking as a driver.