First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[Class 33]

B6 BLE's horrid things?! I personally think they're brilliant single deckers! Comfortable seating, lovely engine sound, pleasant ride. Give me one of these over those Eclipse things any day!

I did a journey to bath on the X39 last week. At Bristol at the time I was there, the first bus in on the X39 was an Eclipse! Not surprisingly I gave that one a miss and waited for the next one. Basically ANYTHING other than an Eclipse would have done me. A Streetlite turned up. That'll do me, so got on that one. On the return journey at Bath bus station, the first bus in on the X39 was an Eclipse again!(probably the exact same one I avoided earlier), so waited for the next one which was a Streetlite. I am surprised that the X39 still isn't entirely Streetlite served by now. And surprised that some of the Streetlite's are used on the 338. Why don't they instead put all the Streetlite's on the X39, and have the older/less plush buses on the 338?

I also got thinking on the journey back as to why this service is number X39 when it isn't really a limited stop service. What with stopping at all bus stops through Bath, Newbridge, Saltford, Brislington, and through to Bristol bus station. Yes it goes the direct route, but it's not really a limited stop service. A service with an X prefix is supposed to be limited stop. Would it be a good idea to have an additional once per hour service which really is a limited stop service? For instance from Bristol Bus Station next stops would be Temple Meads, Brislington village and the few stops in the Brislington Trading Estate area, then next stops would be the few stops up to and including Bath Bus Station. Journey time about 37 minutes!(though a little longer at peak morning and evening times). Has there ever been a true limited stop service between Bath and Bristol? I note there used to be an X4 service years ago. Is this the same as what the X39 is now or a faster limited stop service?

 

[Private Baxter]

B6 BLE's horrid things?! I personally think they're brilliant single deckers! Comfortable seating, lovely engine sound, pleasant ride. Give me one of these over those Eclipse things any day!

I did a journey to bath on the X39 last week. At Bristol at the time I was there, the first bus in on the X39 was an Eclipse! Not surprisingly I gave that one a miss and waited for the next one. Basically ANYTHING other than an Eclipse would have done me. A Streetlite turned up. That'll do me, so got on that one. On the return journey at Bath bus station, the first bus in on the X39 was an Eclipse again!(probably the exact same one I avoided earlier), so waited for the next one which was a Streetlite. I am surprised that the X39 still isn't entirely Streetlite served by now. And surprised that some of the Streetlite's are used on the 338. Why don't they instead put all the Streetlite's on the X39, and have the older/less plush buses on the 338?

I also got thinking on the journey back as to why this service is number X39 when it isn't really a limited stop service. What with stopping at all bus stops through Bath, Newbridge, Saltford, Brislington, and through to Bristol bus station. Yes it goes the direct route, but it's not really a limited stop service. A service with an X prefix is supposed to be limited stop. Would it be a good idea to have an additional once per hour service which really is a limited stop service? For instance from Bristol Bus Station next stops would be Temple Meads, Brislington village and the few stops in the Brislington Trading Estate area, then next stops would be the few stops up to and including Bath Bus Station. Journey time about 37 minutes!(though a little longer at peak morning and evening times). Has there ever been a true limited stop service between Bath and Bristol? I note there used to be an X4 service years ago. Is this the same as what the X39 is now or a faster limited stop service?

Indeed, I agree, the x39 should be run completely with streetlites, plus the occasional double decker. The 338 should be slightly older buses, (even darts), but I swear at least three streetlites end up on 338.
Looks like we disagree on the B6s then, I find them ugly and uncomfortable, whilst I've alsways liked the B7 eclipses, particuarly the older 54 reg ones. They have head rests, and slightly different interior, I remember when they first arrived, in both Wells and Bath and thinking how modern they were. But they had their day, and are more suited now to services like 231 and 265. Bath also used to have more than twice as many of the 55 reg ones too, but are mostly elswhere now. But I like these too.

I don't know if there has ever been a truly express service, but I too have been thinking of something similar, but one that doesn't even serve Newbridge, but goes straight along Lower Bristol Road.

 

[ryson357]

The Volvo B6s are quite nice buses but id prefer the B10's. The 40590 bus is the worst of the B6 as it has a horrible screeching noise from the engine. aha

 

[Class 33]

I don't know if there has ever been a truly express service, but I too have been thinking of something similar, but one that doesn't even serve Newbridge, but goes straight along Lower Bristol Road.

Ah yes, I see what you mean now looking at the map. The X39 doesn't quite go the most direct route, when it turns off the Bristol Road and goes into Newbridge. Should just continue along the Bristol Road and Lower Bristol Road!

It is surprising that there isn't such a fast limited stop service between Bristol and Bath. Lots of workers live in Bristol and work in Bath and vice versa. And leisure travellers who travel between Bristol and Bath who would like a faster bus service between the two cities.

If I were in charge of these services between Bristol and Bath. I'd keep the 338 as it is. The X39 I'd renumber to say 335 or 340, as the X39 is not really a limited stop service and shouldn't have an X prefix to the service number! I'd keep the route and stopping points as it is. I'd reduce the service slightly during weekday daytime from every 12 minutes to every 15 minutes. And I'd introduce an extra service, the X4, an hourly limited stop service between Bristol and Bath. From Bristol Bus Station routed via Bond Street, Temple Way, Temple Gate, Bath Road, Keynsham By-Pass, Bath Road, Bristol Road, Lower Bristol Road, and through to Bath Bus Station! Stopping points as mentioned in my previous post.

A typical daytime journey could be timetabled something like this

BRISTOL Bus Station 1200
Temple Meads 1207
Brislington Square 1215
BATH Bus Station 1237

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I also got thinking on the journey back as to why this service is number X39 when it isn't really a limited stop service. What with stopping at all bus stops through Bath, Newbridge, Saltford, Brislington, and through to Bristol bus station. Yes it goes the direct route, but it's not really a limited stop service. A service with an X prefix is supposed to be limited stop. Would it be a good idea to have an additional once per hour service which really is a limited stop service? For instance from Bristol Bus Station next stops would be Temple Meads, Brislington village and the few stops in the Brislington Trading Estate area, then next stops would be the few stops up to and including Bath Bus Station. Journey time about 37 minutes!(though a little longer at peak morning and evening times). Has there ever been a true limited stop service between Bath and Bristol? I note there used to be an X4 service years ago. Is this the same as what the X39 is now or a faster limited stop service?

History lesson I think this is how it goes

The historic service in the 1970s and 1980s was the 339 Bristol - Keynsham - Bath - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/31375337@N00/4220489684/in/photolist-7qX7xw-8h9dUU-dqdW3J-7YemSj-9yjx2m

The Sainsbury to Trowbridge service (241) was extended to Bath (as per the current 265) in 1983 on the closure of Trowbridge depot as the X41, which was extended to Bristol at de-reg as the X4.

The X39 might have been a de-reg introduction and IS limited stop as it doesn't serve Keynsham - it was faster than the traditional 339!

By the early 1990's, the pattern was a 15 min combined frequency. X39 was half hourly (Bristol to Bath), with an hourly X3 (Bristol to Bath and Frome) and X4 (Bristol to Bath and Salisbury). Keynsham services were 318/337 from Bath and 349 from Bristol, until last year. Only the 339 (and 649) on evening and Sunday did the full route via Keynsham between Bath and Bristol.

Limited stop services are tricky because it's a balance between having enough stops to get trade, and being attractive enough speed wise. The other problem is that the lack of Bath bus priorities, the traffic through Saltford, and the fact that it follows the A4 just makes it slow.

 

[freetoview33]

I would go further and would have

338: Same route as now (Every 30 mins)
339: Same route as now, but additionally serving Wellsway and Courtenay Road in Keynsham doing a loop (Every 30 mins)
X39: An even quicker express route, even if it was just diverting it via Lower Bristol Road it would still speed up the journey (Every 15 mins)

This could also speed up the 178 by sending it direct via Wellsway and provide a better link to all of Keynsham from both Bristol and Bath, whilst speeding up the trips of Bristol - Bath commuters.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would go further and would have

338: Same route as now (Every 30 mins)
339: Same route as now, but additionally serving Wellsway and Courtenay Road in Keynsham doing a loop (Every 30 mins)
X39: An even quicker express route, even if it was just diverting it via Lower Bristol Road it would still speed up the journey (Every 15 mins)

This could also speed up the 178 by sending it direct via Wellsway and provide a better link to all of Keynsham from both Bristol and Bath, whilst speeding up the trips of Bristol - Bath commuters.

Guess it is a balancing act and don't know if there's enough trade for a bus every 15 mins Bath to Keynsham nor 8 bph Bath to Bristol.

I don't mind the Streetlites but I'd have preferred a 15 min X39 but using deckers a la 33825 etc, in similar vein to the 94 between Chelt and Glos.Would sooner see that, and Streetlites on 177-9 & 184.

That said, First have surprised us with the 265 to Salisbury so who knows what is to come.

 

[Class 33]

The X39 might have been a de-reg introduction and IS limited stop as it doesn't serve Keynsham - it was faster than the traditional 339!

By the early 1990's, the pattern was a 15 min combined frequency. X39 was half hourly (Bristol to Bath), with an hourly X3 (Bristol to Bath and Frome) and X4 (Bristol to Bath and Salisbury). Keynsham services were 318/337 from Bath and 349 from Bristol, until last year. Only the 339 (and 649) on evening and Sunday did the full route via Keynsham between Bath and Bristol.

Thanks for that. Seems it was better in the 1990's to be honest. Half hourly X39 with double deckers. And two proper fast limited stop services per hour, the X3 and X4, which go onto Frome and Salisbury. Plus services from Bristol and Bath that served Keynsham, rather than the 338 we have now which goes such a long way round between Bristol and Bath.

Do you happen to remember/know what the calling stops were on the X3 and X4 between Bristol and Bath? And was it routed via Lower Bristol Road, avoiding Newbridge?

I don't mind the Streetlites but I'd have preferred a 15 min X39 but using deckers a la 33825 etc, in similar vein to the 94 between Chelt and Glos.Would sooner see that.

Yes I agree. The X39 should really be an all double decker served service, and ideally nice plush Enviro 400's. Nice that the Streetlites are, at busy peak times there is not enough seating capacity and people have to stand!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thanks for that. Seems it was better in the 1990's to be honest. Half hourly X39 with double deckers. And two proper fast limited stop services per hour, the X3 and X4, which go onto Frome and Salisbury. Plus services from Bristol and Bath that served Keynsham, rather than the 338 we have now which goes such a long way round between Bristol and Bath.

Do you happen to remember/know what the calling stops were on the X3 and X4 between Bristol and Bath? And was it routed via Lower Bristol Road, avoiding Newbridge?



Yes I agree. The X39 should really be an all double decker served service, and ideally nice plush Enviro 400's. Nice that the Streetlites are, at busy peak times there is not enough seating capacity and people have to stand!

Quick correction. The X41 was extended Salisbury to Bristol in 1983; it was renumbered in 1986. I had to check as I didn't think it was right

Seem to recall the X3/X4/X39 were all the same stopping points and that they're much the same as now. Don't think they went via LBR. I would say that the reason that they use the UBR is that Oldfield Park Station gets some of the traffic from that side of town into Temple Meads whilst the other side of the river doesn't have that aspect.

In c. 1991, the X39 were deckers using a mix of G reg Olympians and some old VRs (R-W reg). However, the X3 was also often a decker service using Olympians, though sometimes Mk2 Nationals. The X4 had to be a single deck because of the low bridge on the A36 near Wilton - too low even for a Mk1 National!

The idea of through running might seem a good idea but in reality, it wasn't. You had some real problems with late running X3/X4 trying to get into Bath, arriving 10 mins late and then running with an X39 5 mins behind, then nothing for 25 mins. It was much easier to recover the timetables if the road system went into meltdown (which it can easily do in Bath and Bristol)

 

[freetoview33]

The 338 is better than the 337 and 349 it replaced though as it does offer through journeys yes not the fastest but not every bus can take the most direct route can it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also on traveline it shows the Tuesday only 683 Buglers service from Keynsham - Wells ending on 02/11/13

 

[Private Baxter]

With regards the up coming changes in Bristol and Weston, Bristol like their express routes now don't they. I think they've lost more traditional Badgerline/Bristol Omnibus route numbers this year than any other. 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 362. Anyway, sentiments aside, anyone think new(er) buses will move to MH, or will any of the existing fleet recieve express yourself livery? I suppose they might wait and see how the routes do.
As for Weston service 126, any idea if this is going back to Wells depot?

 

[swifty]

The X7 will be run by dedicated branded deckers, X4/5 with modern low floor deckers and the X6 with luxury deckers with leather seats and free wi‐fi, which will become part of the ‘Express Yourself’ network. Presumably the 56 plate E400s will be used on the latter two services.

 

[freetoview33]

Should be nice services, still worried this will mean less deckers for Bristol City services and we will be stuck with more singles.

 

[swifty]

Should be nice services, still worried this will mean less deckers for Bristol City services and we will be stuck with more singles.

The X7 is likely to see 3 of the 5 former Bath P&R deckers at MH used (the other 3 are now extra LH buses) whilst the X4/5/6 will more than likely be E400 worked, so in theory no deckers will be taken from City services.

 

[freetoview33]

The X7 is likely to see 3 of the 5 former Bath P&R deckers at MH used (the other 3 are now extra LH buses) whilst the X4/5/6 will more than likely be E400 worked, so in theory no deckers will be taken from City services.

But does it mean we will still get the additional deckers needed on city services

 

[vicbury]

Fans of the S-reg Darts in Bath will be pleased to hear that at least one has had its seating fully re-trimmed with new moquette and cushioning throughout. Those who don't like them may view this as a sign that they are going to be around for a while longer. At least we'll no longer have the frames of the seat backs digging into us with the new padding.

Lots of interesting posts about what could be done with the X39 on here. I can't say I really agree with most of them, unfortunately. There's no point making the X39 faster through being limited stop. Those who value speed will take the train; those who value frequency and being able to board anywhere between Bristol and Bath will take the X39. If you decrease the frequency and reduce the number of stops A) you lose the benefit over taking the train B) the bus all of a sudden becomes less attractive than your car.

I do agree that it needs double deckers through. I've posted before that the Streetlites haven't been done out in First's new express livery so maybe they are a stop-gap before some more suitable vehicles are procured?

 

[Private Baxter]

Fans of the S-reg Darts in Bath will be pleased to hear that at least one has had its seating fully re-trimmed with new moquette and cushioning throughout. Those who don't like them may view this as a sign that they are going to be around for a while longer. At least we'll no longer have the frames of the seat backs digging into us with the new padding.

Lots of interesting posts about what could be done with the X39 on here. I can't say I really agree with most of them, unfortunately. There's no point making the X39 faster through being limited stop. Those who value speed will take the train; those who value frequency and being able to board anywhere between Bristol and Bath will take the X39. If you decrease the frequency and reduce the number of stops A) you lose the benefit over taking the train B) the bus all of a sudden becomes less attractive than your car.

I do agree that it needs double deckers through. I've posted before that the Streetlites haven't been done out in First's new express livery so maybe they are a stop-gap before some more suitable vehicles are procured?

I know you're right about the x39, I'm not sure there's much economic sense in making it even more direct, as the newbridge section is actually very popular. Don't hold your breath for double deckers any time soon though. It took long enough for the B7s to replaced. This was originally meant to happen in 2009. The streetlites will be on the service for at least five years, so maybe then. But I would like to have seen them in express yourself livery. Meanwhile, one of the former x39 B7s, 66733 is still in x39 City2City branding, whilst I think 66734 is going in for painting soon, though I'm not certain about that.

Not a fan of the S reg darts at all, though I expect they'll be in Bath till the bitter end. Can't really see them moving on, though this refurb is welcome.

 

[DaveHarries]

Anyone wondering about the StreetLites for Bristol services 24 & 25 might be interested to know that a list of vehicles seen at Heysham Docks on 27th October was posted to the Yahoo-based First-Group-Fans and UK-Bus-Southwest forums. Among them were:

47449 SK63 KKJ
47450, SK63 KKL
47451, SK63 KKM
47452, SK63 KKN
47453, SK63 KKO
47455, SK63 KKR
47456, SK63 KKS

A photo of 47449 is at http://smu.gs/1dedOwJ but there are also photos of the rest there.

which were all given as being for First S&A but AFAIK FSA are not due more StreetLites so I assume this is the start of the Bristol batch - unless anyone knows differently?

Dave

 

[Class 33]

Hmmm... I still think though there should at least be ADDITIONAL limited stop express hourly services at peak morning and evening times. A rethink of this I'd have these such services as running the normal X39 route from Bristol as far as Bristol Road, where it would then continue along the direct Lower Bristol Road to Bath. In the Bristol-Bath direction, all stops as far as St. Brendans college will be request pick-up stops only, then non-stop to Bath. And in the other direction, non-stop from Bath to St. Brendans college and all stops set down stops only. This would give some commuters a bus service with shorter journey times.

Baffled really why the X39 is numbered as such when it's not really a limited stop service. Yes it's the fastest bus service between Bristol and Bath, significantly faster journey times than the 338 and 339. But still not really a limited stop service!

As the X39 is pretty much all single deckers, and at busy peak times can be over-crowded with some passengers having to stand. Then some relief from other services helping to ease over-crowding on the X39 is needed really. A number of passengers use the X39 to travel between Bristol central area and Brislington, which adds to the over-crowding on the X39! There has for some years now been no First operated service 57 which used to operate between Stockwood and the Centre via Brislington. So I'd maybe introduce a new service, service 56 which is a mix of the old services 55 and 57. From the Centre operating the usual route to Brislington as far as Bath Road, then Callington road, Wells Road, Staunton Lane, Stockwood Road, then as per the service 54 route to Stockwood The Coots. This would also add a new direct service between the upper part of Wells Road and Brislington. Being more adventurous, the service could even be extended beyond Stockwood through to Keynsham! And from what I can see, there is in fact no regular direct bus service between Stockwood and Keynsham!

Just some thoughts.

 

[DaveHarries]

There has for some years now been no First operated service 57 which used to operate between Stockwood and the Centre via Brislington.

ABus started running the 57 after First dropped it.
http://www.patsofwinsley.co.uk/abus/abus57x.pdf

Dave

 

[vicbury]

Hmmm... I still think though there should at least be ADDITIONAL limited stop express hourly services at peak morning and evening times. A rethink of this I'd have these such services as running the normal X39 route from Bristol as far as Bristol Road, where it would then continue along the direct Lower Bristol Road to Bath. In the Bristol-Bath direction, all stops as far as St. Brendans college will be request pick-up stops only, then non-stop to Bath. And in the other direction, non-stop from Bath to St. Brendans college and all stops set down stops only. This would give some commuters a bus service with shorter journey times.

Baffled really why the X39 is numbered as such when it's not really a limited stop service. Yes it's the fastest bus service between Bristol and Bath, significantly faster journey times than the 338 and 339. But still not really a limited stop service!

As the X39 is pretty much all single deckers, and at busy peak times can be over-crowded with some passengers having to stand. Then some relief from other services helping to ease over-crowding on the X39 is needed really. A number of passengers use the X39 to travel between Bristol central area and Brislington, which adds to the over-crowding on the X39! There has for some years now been no First operated service 57 which used to operate between Stockwood and the Centre via Brislington. So I'd maybe introduce a new service, service 56 which is a mix of the old services 55 and 57. From the Centre operating the usual route to Brislington as far as Bath Road, then Callington road, Wells Road, Staunton Lane, Stockwood Road, then as per the service 54 route to Stockwood The Coots. This would also add a new direct service between the upper part of Wells Road and Brislington. Being more adventurous, the service could even be extended beyond Stockwood through to Keynsham! And from what I can see, there is in fact no regular direct bus service between Stockwood and Keynsham!

Just some thoughts.

There might be some scope in an additional service running Bath-Bristol on the Lower Bristol Road; it would certainly be a more convenient option for those commuting from Oldfield Park and Twerton to Bristol. However, with some Bristol rail services calling at Oldfield Park Station would there be enough demand?

Why is the X39 called the X39? It's catchy. In fact when the B7s were introduced back in 2004/5 the destination boards would alternate between:

• The X39
• X39 Bristol / Bath
• Every 12 minutes

It was the only service in Bath to have the service name on the destination boards, apart from The Bright Orange. The 339 just doesn't sound as good.

I've seen a fair few B7 double deckers on the X39 of late (I believe others have said the same in this thread) so maybe First are responding to the overcrowding that occurs on particular journeys?

I fully agree that Brislington could perhaps do with better links to central Bristol, however with the A4 already benefiting from the X39, 338/339 and 178 could a further service be justified?

As for buses between Stockwood / Whitchurch and Keynsham? It's something that residents are campaigning for. Unfortunately, BANES seems to think that a semi-demand-responsive minibus link would do the trick and that's what they are working towards at the moment.

Keynsham is a difficult place to crack for bus services. It's a major commuter town however it has a low population density so in order to get a bus service you either have to walk for miles or endure convoluted and slow bus routes.

Slightly off-topic but First have introduced some new signage on Bath Bus Station including large welcome signs at all the entrances, with welcome translated into a variety of languages. It looks quite smart actually.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Hmmm... I still think though there should at least be ADDITIONAL limited stop express hourly services at peak morning and evening times. A rethink of this I'd have these such services as running the normal X39 route from Bristol as far as Bristol Road, where it would then continue along the direct Lower Bristol Road to Bath. In the Bristol-Bath direction, all stops as far as St. Brendans college will be request pick-up stops only, then non-stop to Bath. And in the other direction, non-stop from Bath to St. Brendans college and all stops set down stops only. This would give some commuters a bus service with shorter journey times.

Baffled really why the X39 is numbered as such when it's not really a limited stop service. Yes it's the fastest bus service between Bristol and Bath, significantly faster journey times than the 338 and 339. But still not really a limited stop service!

As I explained, the X39 number dates from when it was the faster version of the daytime 339. Besides the X prefix does highlight that it an express version of the service (i.e. it doesn't go via Keynsham and instead uses the bypass). Really don't know why you're so baffled.

As for additional peak hour expresses.... first of all, you're going to push up the PVR by what sort of number and for what financial return? Each bus you add is another £100k a year. Remember that this is already on a 12 min frequency.

Also, as I and others said, where is the likely demand. The biggest area on the Lower Bristol Road is Oldfield Park and many already use the faster train to Temple Meads. Naturally, they've decided to serve Newbridge as there are more potential passengers assisted by the lack of competition from the train.

Perhaps for those possible passengers that might want to travel from the Lower Bristol Road to Bristol, perhaps just re-route the 338

 

[ValleyLines142]

As the X39 is pretty much all single deckers, and at busy peak times can be over-crowded with some passengers having to stand. Then some relief from other services helping to ease over-crowding on the X39 is needed really. A number of passengers use the X39 to travel between Bristol central area and Brislington, which adds to the over-crowding on the X39!

The X39 does get quite busy, particuarly in the morning and the evening peak. I think it would be fine if Bath's B7 ALX400s were timed to work the morning and peak services. I do feel that the Streetlites are a tad too small for the route. I think it would be better if the new Enviro 400s on the 41 Park and Ride were branded for the X39 and then the Streetlites work the 41 instead, as I certainly don't think the Park and Ride service needs double deckers (or, if they do, have maybe two or three Enviro 400s on the X39 instead).

On the subject of Park and Ride, one other service that uses double deckers is the 903, which runs from Long Ashton. There are currently about six or seven Geminis branded and they are never full. Again, these Geminis would be handy in Bristol city services, as I am sick of single decker buses being used on routes such as the 1, 2 and 73. Or even better, send these Geminis to Lawrence Hill, keep the red base which they currently have and brand them for the 70 between UWE and The Centre! UWE has a red colour scheme so it makes sense! Then as for the twelve Eclipses which are on the 70, send six of them to Hengrove for the 903 and keep the remaining six for services such as the 24, 25 and 51.

But going back to the X39, I think most people tend to use the train. It takes ten minutes to get to Bath and at only £4.60 for a Railcard holder and £7 for a full paying adult, it's relatively cheap. Services are also very frequent.

I personally think that Hengrove has too many double deckers. I really think ten or so need to be transferred to Lawrence Hill. At present, the 90 uses a mixture of Geminis and Volvo B10 single deckers. As a route which runs every ten minutes, and with the very frequent 75/76 running to Hengrove Depot, I'm sure the 90 could become a fully single decker route and then those Geminis could go to Lawrence Hill.

I fully agree that Brislington could perhaps do with better links to central Bristol, however with the A4 already benefiting from the X39, 338/339 and 178 could a further service be justified?

Personally, I don't think Brislington needs a further service. The 1 and the 36 serve parts of it too.

As for buses between Stockwood / Whitchurch and Keynsham? It's something that residents are campaigning for. Unfortunately, BANES seems to think that a semi-demand-responsive minibus link would do the trick and that's what they are working towards at the moment.

Keynsham is a difficult place to crack for bus services. It's a major commuter town however it has a low population density so in order to get a bus service you either have to walk for miles or endure convoluted and slow bus routes.

I think First have tried to respond to demand by extending the 42 to Keynsham, and it seems to be doing pretty well.

 

[freetoview33]

But the Park and Rides and under contract so not as easy for them to just change the buses they use on the routes

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But the Park and Rides and under contract so not as easy for them to just change the buses they use on the routes

And you say they're never full? I'd say that you should have a look at Christmas and many in the morning peak. The 903 does carry decent loads.

As for the 41, well you don't clearly use it. I've been stood on Southgate and queued halfway up the street and seen one decker arrive, fill up and leave, and then get the next one. It is particularly noticeable on Saturday when they even draft in additional deckers to increase capacity, usually on the run up to Christmas and if Bath are playing at home.

 

[swifty]

The X39 does get quite busy, particuarly in the morning and the evening peak. I think it would be fine if Bath's B7 ALX400s were timed to work the morning and peak services. I do feel that the Streetlites are a tad too small for the route. I think it would be better if the new Enviro 400s on the 41 Park and Ride were branded for the X39 and then the Streetlites work the 41 instead, as I certainly don't think the Park and Ride service needs double deckers (or, if they do, have maybe two or three Enviro 400s on the X39 instead).

The 6x B7/Gemini that have recently been transferred into Bath are used during the peaks to boost capacity on the X39, as well as off peak, and extra buses are slotted in to the timetable if needed.

As explained to you previously the PVR of the 41 is only three, if you seriously think that taking off the E400s and replacing them with Streetlites is a good idea then god help us! Look at Christmas/Rugby/Peaks the buses are full and standing with queues left behind vs a few people standing on the X39, it just doesn't make sense. The car parks are having to be expanded as it is, as well as extra deckers being used during busy periods.

Then we could go into why BANES have requested high spec hybrid buses for the Park & Rides....

On the subject of Park and Ride, one other service that uses double deckers is the 903, which runs from Long Ashton. There are currently about six or seven Geminis branded and they are never full. Again, these Geminis would be handy in Bristol city services, as I am sick of single decker buses being used on routes such as the 1, 2 and 73. Or even better, send these Geminis to Lawrence Hill, keep the red base which they currently have and brand them for the 70 between UWE and The Centre! UWE has a red colour scheme so it makes sense! Then as for the twelve Eclipses which are on the 70, send six of them to Hengrove for the 903 and keep the remaining six for services such as the 24, 25 and 51.

Again, a silly idea. The 903 is double deck for a reason and you clearly don't use it! In the peak the buses are full and standing, I often pass two in convoy absolutely rammed heading back to the P&R site.

Your argument that they are never full can be turned around as well, the Gemini used on city services off peak are rarely full during the day, shall we take those off too? No, because they are fully utilised in the peaks, just as the 903 buses are.

The 904 is a prime example of why not to use single deckers on the 903. First had quite happily run deckers on the 904 for the best part of 18 years, latterly at a 12min peak frequency and more or less everyone gets a seat. Along come CT Plus with their ex London bendies (which two years later STILL haven't been refurbished or re engined as promised!), and all of a sudden there are not enough seats and everyone is rammed in resulting in a PR disaster and droves abandoning the service! I'm sure Bristol CC would love to repeat that with the 903...

The 24/25 are in the process of receiving the new 10.8m Streetlites for the route, much more suitable than a 12m bus that would struggle to get round parts of the route.

I personally think that Hengrove has too many double deckers. I really think ten or so need to be transferred to Lawrence Hill. At present, the 90 uses a mixture of Geminis and Volvo B10 single deckers. As a route which runs every ten minutes, and with the very frequent 75/76 running to Hengrove Depot, I'm sure the 90 could become a fully single decker route and then those Geminis could go to Lawrence Hill.

Please tell me you're having a laugh, they're struggling for deckers at Hengrove as it is! Hengrove have 65 deckers, 6 for the 903, so 59 for city services, you want to take 10 away to make 49. Not to mention factoring in things like maintenance, accident damage etc that can see buses VOR.

The PVR for the 75/6 is c.45 so you're really not leaving them much room for any error, which would result in single deckers being used on Bristol busiest bus routes.

I think First have tried to respond to demand by extending the 42 to Keynsham, and it seems to be doing pretty well.

To be honest they're aren't many end to end journeys on the 42. The extension to Keynsham is more popular over the leg to Kingswood.

 

[ValleyLines142]

As explained to you previously the PVR of the 41 is only three, if you seriously think that taking off the E400s and replacing them with Streetlites is a good idea then god help us! Look at Christmas/Rugby/Peaks the buses are full and standing with queues left behind vs a few people standing on the X39, it just doesn't make sense. The car parks are having to be expanded as it is, as well as extra deckers being used during busy periods.

Well why are there eight of them branded for P&R services?

Again, a silly idea. The 903 is double deck for a reason and you clearly don't use it! In the peak the buses are full and standing, I often pass two in convoy absolutely rammed heading back to the P&R site.

Perhaps so in the peak, but off peak there are about ten people on them.

The Gemini used on city services off peak are rarely full during the day, shall we take those off too? No, because they are fully utilised in the peaks, just as the 903 buses are.

That's not quite true, if you stand by Cabot Circus and look at buses such as the 44/45 and 48/49, they are still very busy even at say 1pm in the afternoon.

Please tell me you're having a laugh, they're struggling for deckers at Hengrove as it is! Hengrove have 65 deckers, 6 for the 903, so 59 for city services, you want to take 10 away to make 49. Not to mention factoring in things like maintenance, accident damage etc that can see buses VOR.

They shouldn't be, after all they've just had twenty buses from London!

The fact of the matter is, Lawrence Hill needs more buses too. There are far, FAR too many single deckers appearing on some of Bristol's busiest routes. It's not really fair that Hengrove has all these buses, yet Lawrence Hill has nothing! And with Hengrove, crowding is not as bad as Lawrence Hill's routes. The 904, although not run by First AFAIA, is only a twenty minute journey, and so crowding is not so much an issue and is like the Tube in London, but I've had to stand on the 1 and 73 routes in the past!

Lawrence Hill needs twenty Enviro 400s, in an ideal world.

 

[Private Baxter]

Baffled really why the X39 is numbered as such when it's not really a limited stop service. Yes it's the fastest bus service between Bristol and Bath, significantly faster journey times than the 338 and 339. But still not really a limited stop service!

I never thought that the X implies it's limited stop, I just assumed it meant it was the quickest route. I don't know when it was introduced, I'd say at least twenty years ago, but before the X39, the 339 was the fastest bus route between Bath and Bristol, but I guess Badgerline realised there was enough demand for a service without having to include Keynsham, and so the X39 came about as the quicker version of the 339, which in time was relegated to evenings and Sundays only. It's a bit like the recently introduced X75 service in Wells.The X75 isn't limited stop, you can get on at any designated bus stop, it just skips all those country villages between Street and Woolavington, thus making it a little faster. To be fair though, I'm not sure how popular this route is, and it only really came about in response to Webberbus' route 37, which was introduced not long before.

 

[freetoview33]

And you say they're never full? I'd say that you should have a look at Christmas and many in the morning peak. The 903 does carry decent loads.

As for the 41, well you don't clearly use it. I've been stood on Southgate and queued halfway up the street and seen one decker arrive, fill up and leave, and then get the next one. It is particularly noticeable on Saturday when they even draft in additional deckers to increase capacity, usually on the run up to Christmas and if Bath are playing at home.

I agree that they are full.

on another note, maybe the additional 309 services may take some of the strain off of the 75. I do wonder what the situation would of been like now if First had of split the 75 and 76 like they were planning to back in 2008.

 

[Class 33]

The single decker phase in Bristol is still continuing! Here's my observations over the past few days:

Monday:
42703, 66161 and 66178 on the 2.
69452, 69455 and 69457 on the 73 (both the pictures of 69455 and 69457 show them on the 1 and 73 respectively)

Wednesday:
66171 on the 43, on a peak journey out of Bristol heading towards Cadbury Heath.

(None of these are my photos, just from Flickr to show the type of bus used on the route)

Class 33 - a story for you!:
On Monday, I walked from UWE Frenchay to Sainsbury's to catch a 73 to Cribbs Causeway. I got to Sainsbury's and had just missed a Gemini. A 319 turned up, but I prefer the 73 route, and it was just a single-decker anyway, so waited for the next 73. What turns up!?!?! An Eclipse!! So then I went into Sainsbury's to get some chocolate and eventually 37359 turned up!

I then went shopping in Cribbs and caught the 1 to Broomhill, which was operated by 37324, which is in the new livery and has leather seats! Very nice indeed! Also saw Enviro 33414 on the X25 to Portishead at Cribbs, which I didn't know was just a twenty minute journey!! Maybe these should be worked by B10BLE's and the older Enviros on the X1 could be transferred to Lawrence Hill now that Weston has brand new 63-plate Enviros! Certainly a bit of a kick in the teeth when an older single decker works the 2 or 73 and then a double decker Enviro 400 works a twenty minute journey!

Dan, to answer this post and a couple of your more recent postings.

I know it's annoying the single deckers in use on the 73! When I return from the Centre a couple of times per week in the evening, both the 2035 and 2105 services are Eclipse's! Not surprisingly I avoid those(as well as the 70's which are practically allways Eclipse's!) and wait for a 75 or 76 double decker instead for a more comfortable journey!

I occasionally take a look at First Bristol & Avon's Twitter page and I noticed a few weeks back some woman complaining about the use of single deckers on the 1 at busy times! First's response was that there must have been a mechanical issue with a double decker, and a single decker was used instead that day. But of course, it seems there are a few single deckers used every day(every weekday anyway) on the 1 and 2 now! Nothing to do with mechanical issue! It's because they don't have enough double deckers, and some double deckers are being used on services which don't need double deckers, such as the 4,5,6,7,36 and as you say the 90. First Bristol really need to take a look at their vehicle allocations and resolve these issues. As currently there are some very silly allocations going on, i.e a single decker on the 73 and packed to capacity with people standing and at the same time a double decker on the 7 with only half a dozen passengers on! If they can't do that, then they need to get some more double deckers in. At least a dozen are needed really. But ideally as you say, we need at least 20 of them!

I agree the 70 should go back to being double deckers. Perhaps even an epic relaunch of the service and rebranded with a UWE link sub-branding especially for the service 70 linking UWE, Broadmead/Centre, and Temple Meads. I'm thinking smart new Enviro 400's would be VERY suitable as such! I can picture them in my head now! But the reality is the 70 is sadly stuck with these "sodding Eclipse's" for the time being!

Have you thought of emailing or writing to First Bristol to comment/complain about this issue of single deckers being used on supposedly all double decker served services?