First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

I remember when the streetlites were first delivered; they were all the rage for a few years. There were 33 of the 63 reg ones at Hengrave alone, now the only ones left are those for the 8. The slightly newer 14 and 64 reg ones have moved around so many times as well I have lost track of what is where, and what is left.
Speaking of the 5 (Bath), if memory serves i don't think they ever actually worked it, although it was the intention. All 15 were intended for Bath, though half ended up in Bristol for Portishead routes, whilst the Bath lot ended up on 178 and 379.


Thanks, I am aware that several are off road due to accident or fire damage, though didn't realise there were quite so many not currently in action at the moment, so that makes sense.
I agree it would make sense for 66948 to go to Bath, though does mean we have seen these buses in most of the key liveries. Lynx, Mendip, Discover, and Bath blue, plus of course barbie and urban.
Think the plan had been to have them on the T2 or Y4, hence 448 was painted with more to follow, though as often happens the plan changed and that one has stayed to act more as a spare at MH.

As GW said, three eclipses ran in urban. 69445 at Wells and 69459/60 at Weston, and I thought at the time that it suited them very well.

47544-50 did get onto the 5 https://www.flickr.com/photos/78213...st-og1Yj7-2hPK3nT-EweBe6-or5Dkn-orPFBR-og9eCx but not for long. Literally, it was just a few weeks so easy to miss!

I think the change in the view of Streetlites has a number of factors. Firstly, the various changes that have fuelled passenger growth means that the role of singles is much reduced, with swaps of them in exchange of deckers. First have obviously purchased relatively few since 2015 and they have proven to be a good way of cascading modern fleet from Bristol to assist in meeting emissions targets in places like Leicester and Glasgow. Perhaps more importantly, the current management don't fancy them with concerns about them coming off warranty AFAIK.

 

[Robertj21a]

47544-50 did get onto the 5 https://www.flickr.com/photos/78213...st-og1Yj7-2hPK3nT-EweBe6-or5Dkn-orPFBR-og9eCx but not for long. Literally, it was just a few weeks so easy to miss!

I think the change in the view of Streetlites has a number of factors. Firstly, the various changes that have fuelled passenger growth means that the role of singles is much reduced, with swaps of them in exchange of deckers. First have obviously purchased relatively few since 2015 and they have proven to be a good way of cascading modern fleet from Bristol to assist in meeting emissions targets in places like Leicester and Glasgow. Perhaps more importantly, the current management don't fancy them with concerns about them coming off warranty AFAIK.

Streetlites seem relatively unpopular with drivers just about everywhere and they're often only a little more popular with some managers because they keep Accountants happy.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Streetlites seem relatively unpopular with drivers just about everywhere and they're often only a little more popular with some managers because they keep Accountants happy.

Think there was a thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...e-hill-climb-performance.210973/#post-4851894 where some drivers had discussed the relative merits of Streetlites. There appear to be two main continuing issues. Firstly, the transmission - many just weren't set up properly hence the constant up and down aspect and the jerkiness of the gear change. Some First OpCos seem to have been better in getting that sorted out. Secondly, the engine types vary and so does performance.

They were cheap to buy (but not by that much) and are very good on fuel, being lightweight machines. However, I don't know if the whole life cost is attractive to accountants once you factor in parts and downtime after the warranties ran out which is the reason I'd heard why some had been moved on from FWoE.

I've travelled on quite a few WoE Streetlites and they've varied between relatively ok and bloody awful. Of course, the ride tends to be a bit harsh and I don't think it's helped by the eLeather seats now attaining a more polished feel. Mind you, you can say the same about e200s of a similar age; the e200mmc has now come in and is a far superior machine. Given the continued push to larger vehicles (will the 8 be so converted?), you wonder if more Streetlites might not head across the group?

 

[Tommy Walters]

I remember when the streetlites were first delivered; they were all the rage for a few years. There were 33 of the 63 reg ones at Hengrave alone, now the only ones left are those for the 8. The slightly newer 14 and 64 reg ones have moved around so many times as well I have lost track of what is where, and what is left.
Speaking of the 5 (Bath), if memory serves i don't think they ever actually worked it, although it was the intention. All 15 were intended for Bath, though half ended up in Bristol for Portishead routes, whilst the Bath lot ended up on 178 and 379.

As far as I can work out, the current breakdown of the Streetlite fleet is as follows :

47435-41 - All at HE for the 8
47443/565/568 - At HE for the 8/72/72a
47444/447/552/553/559/567 - At LH for the 35/178/X8/X9
47442/446/544/554/555/571 - At BH for the 1/5/D1/D2
47545/551/556/557/558/561/566/569/570 - At WM for various services

So as you say, much of the batch has been swapped around over the years.

We forget that once the 178 was cut back to Radstock and switched to MH operation, and the 379 withdrawn, 47544-50 spent a great chunk of time running the 1 in Bath. I personally think it was a mistake to suddenly switch to E200 operation in the summer of 2018, as the services, not even factoring in things such as social distancing, were often rather overcrowded after that. The (semi) return to Streetlite operation at present I feel has been long overdue, and I hope that once the B7RLEs are painted for the 5, that the Streetlites will stay on the 1 for good!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As far as I can work out, the current breakdown of the Streetlite fleet is as follows :

47435-41 - All at HE for the 8
47443/565/568 - At HE for the 8/72/72a
47444/447/552/553/559/567 - At LH for the 35/178/X8/X9
47442/446/544/554/555/571 - At BH for the 1/5/D1/D2
47545/551/556/557/558/561/566/569/570 - At WM for various services

So as you say, much of the batch has been swapped around over the years.

We forget that once the 178 was cut back to Radstock and switched to MH operation, and the 379 withdrawn, 47544-50 spent a great chunk of time running the 1 in Bath. I personally think it was a mistake to suddenly switch to E200 operation in the summer of 2018, as the services, not even factoring in things such as social distancing, were often rather overcrowded after that. The (semi) return to Streetlite operation at present I feel has been long overdue, and I hope that once the B7RLEs are painted for the 5, that the Streetlites will stay on the 1 for good!

Aside from the two e200mmc at Weston for the A3, 47559-71 were the last new single deckers (as opposed to minis) delivered? You wonder when or if a batch of new singles will arrive!

 

[freetoview33]

Aside from the two e200mmc at Weston for the A3, 47559-71 were the last new single deckers (as opposed to minis) delivered? You wonder when or if a batch of new singles will arrive!

Hopefully never!

 

[baza585]

Think there was a thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...e-hill-climb-performance.210973/#post-4851894 where some drivers had discussed the relative merits of Streetlites. There appear to be two main continuing issues. Firstly, the transmission - many just weren't set up properly hence the constant up and down aspect and the jerkiness of the gear change. Some First OpCos seem to have been better in getting that sorted out. Secondly, the engine types vary and so does performance.

They were cheap to buy (but not by that much) and are very good on fuel, being lightweight machines. However, I don't know if the whole life cost is attractive to accountants once you factor in parts and downtime after the warranties ran out which is the reason I'd heard why some had been moved on from FWoE.

I've travelled on quite a few WoE Streetlites and they've varied between relatively ok and bloody awful. Of course, the ride tends to be a bit harsh and I don't think it's helped by the eLeather seats now attaining a more polished feel. Mind you, you can say the same about e200s of a similar age; the e200mmc has now come in and is a far superior machine. Given the continued push to larger vehicles (will the 8 be so converted?), you wonder if more Streetlites might not head across the group?

Down here in Hampshire we have almost every type of Streetlite ever built. The only common factor is that the emergency door rattles on almost all of them.

The 63xxx are generally better than the shorter versions, with less hunting up and down the gearbox, and hence a smoother ride. The Merc engined Maxes are smooth but still seemed to be plagued with minor unreliability issues, as they have been from new.

I agree with your comment about pre MMC E200s; Stagecoach South has batches of 62 & 64 reg examples which are just unpleasant to travel on, at least as bad as the Streetlite.

My experience of e200 MMCs is mixed; both GSC and Stagecoach have 65 reg fleets which seem to be becoming troublesome, but the later examples in all local fleets seem better bolted together and generally do the job day in day out.

I suspect FWoE might struggle to find takers elsewhere in group for their remaining 47xxx, for the time being at least.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Hopefully never!

Why?

Single deck vehicles have their place, such as those routes that can't accommodate doubles such as the D1, D2, X8 or the Bath 5. Putting singles on routes that weren't suitable was/is a mistake but a blanket "it must a decker or nothing at all" seems rather rigid.

Down here in Hampshire we have almost every type of Streetlite ever built. The only common factor is that the emergency door rattles on almost all of them.

The 63xxx are generally better than the shorter versions, with less hunting up and down the gearbox, and hence a smoother ride. The Merc engined Maxes are smooth but still seemed to be plagued with minor unreliability issues, as they have been from new.

I agree with your comment about pre MMC E200s; Stagecoach South has batches of 62 & 64 reg examples which are just unpleasant to travel on, at least as bad as the Streetlite.

My experience of e200 MMCs is mixed; both GSC and Stagecoach have 65 reg fleets which seem to be becoming troublesome, but the later examples in all local fleets seem better bolted together and generally do the job day in day out.

I suspect FWoE might struggle to find takers elsewhere in group for their remaining 47xxx, for the time being at least.

Yep, that emergency door issue is maddening.

The Bath e200s are as bad to travel on as a Streetlite and it's the same on Stagecoach's examples. Don't know about the e200mmc in terms of reliability but they are much better to travel on; I've mentioned before that the Stagecoach Gold ones are particularly good as a passenger.

In terms of offloading the remaining 47*** examples, in these Covid times, their limited capacity is a bit of an issue but with plenty of elderly Darts still in South Wales and Essex from 2003-5, there's probably some places that would accept them.

 

[baza585]

Why?

Single deck vehicles have their place, such as those routes that can't accommodate doubles such as the D1, D2, X8 or the Bath 5. Putting singles on routes that weren't suitable was/is a mistake but a blanket "it must a decker or nothing at all" seems rather rigid.



Yep, that emergency door issue is maddening.

The Bath e200s are as bad to travel on as a Streetlite and it's the same on Stagecoach's examples. Don't know about the e200mmc in terms of reliability but they are much better to travel on; I've mentioned before that the Stagecoach Gold ones are particularly good as a passenger.

In terms of offloading the remaining 47*** examples, in these Covid times, their limited capacity is a bit of an issue but with plenty of elderly Darts still in South Wales and Essex from 2003-5, there's probably some places that would accept them.

Opcos under financial pressure may prefer fully depreciated Drats to Streetlites with high book values........

Assumes they can keep them running I guess......

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Opcos under financial pressure may prefer fully depreciated Drats to Streetlites with high book values........

Assumes they can keep them running I guess......

True - they can't keep going indefinitely though and at least the book values have been eroded a bit!

 

[Private Baxter]

As far as I can work out, the current breakdown of the Streetlite fleet is as follows :

47435-41 - All at HE for the 8
47443/565/568 - At HE for the 8/72/72a
47444/447/552/553/559/567 - At LH for the 35/178/X8/X9
47442/446/544/554/555/571 - At BH for the 1/5/D1/D2
47545/551/556/557/558/561/566/569/570 - At WM for various services

So as you say, much of the batch has been swapped around over the years.

We forget that once the 178 was cut back to Radstock and switched to MH operation, and the 379 withdrawn, 47544-50 spent a great chunk of time running the 1 in Bath. I personally think it was a mistake to suddenly switch to E200 operation in the summer of 2018, as the services, not even factoring in things such as social distancing, were often rather overcrowded after that. The (semi) return to Streetlite operation at present I feel has been long overdue, and I hope that once the B7RLEs are painted for the 5, that the Streetlites will stay on the 1 for good!

Thanks for the run down! That's more than I had remembered. But you're right the 1 in Bath did definitely have them for a while. The 72 however does tend to be predominantly B7RLEs, though you are right streetlites do stray on there as well. But still plenty of use in and around Bristol.

Hopefully never!

Ah don't say that! Most of my favourite buses are single deck. That said, a lot of the remaining single deck routes haven't traditionally been the receiver of new buses so it might be a long time before any brand new ones come.

 

[Tommy Walters]

The 63xxx are generally better than the shorter versions, with less hunting up and down the gearbox, and hence a smoother ride. The Merc engined Maxes are smooth but still seemed to be plagued with minor unreliability issues, as they have been from new.

I actually prefer the 47*** ones, but this is largely due to the fact that some of the 63***s that used to be in Bath/Westbury were pretty awful and sluggish. Personally the best batch are the 475**s with the micro-hybrid system installed, which can be quite nippy if you have the right driver at the wheel. With the wrong driver though, every type of Streetlite is slow and more often than not, super jerky on both the gearbox and brakes.

As a good example, before lockdown 1 I had a trip on pink 47555 on the 37, which could not keep to the timetable at all (think it got to Bath about 10 mins late in the end), but I also had a run on 47545 on the 126, which actually kept to the timetable better than some of the Wells B7RLEs had done on my past runs!

 

[freetoview33]

I just can't see new singles being purchased until it is 100% needed. It also depends if/when any new double deckers are ordered,

 

[Private Baxter]

I just can't see new singles being purchased until it is 100% needed. It also depends if/when any new double deckers are ordered,

I agree that for this region it seems unlikely, and that any singles to come our way in the next few years will be handmedowns.
As for deckers, I guess Covid has got in the way of most plans, but perhaps we will see more gas buses for Bristol in the next year or two.

 

[Whiteway215]

Steve White telling us 10162 30875 and 32279 have gone for scrap from Bath. Not sure which dealer had them but presumably Wigley took the bendi.
30875 had been retained for possible conversion to a library bus (like 30871) but obviously plans were changed.

 

[matt_splat]

I just can't see new singles being purchased until it is 100% needed. It also depends if/when any new double deckers are ordered,

I have heard a rumor that during next year Bath are due 2 new singles for wessex water

 

[freetoview33]

I have heard a rumor that during next year Bath are due 2 new singles for wessex water

That Is a seperate contract though, but very interesting

 

[D2007wsm]

I have heard a rumor that during next year Bath are due 2 new singles for wessex water

That Is a seperate contract though, but very interesting

Presumably these will be E200MMCs or maybe more Solos

 

[freetoview33]

Presumably these will be E200MMCs or maybe more Solos

I think they will most likely be MMCs buy Solos would fit better in Bath.

This is going to be interesting! So with the new tier system in place, Bristol, South Gloucestershire and North Somerset are Tier 3, Bath and North East Somerset are Tier 2. Which says people in Tier 3 shouldn't go into tier 2 areas.

 

[carlberry]

I think they will most likely be MMCs buy Solos would fit better in Bath.

This is going to be interesting! So with the new tier system in place, Bristol, South Gloucestershire and North Somerset are Tier 3, Bath and North East Somerset are Tier 2. Which says people in Tier 3 shouldn't go into tier 2 areas.

The wording is avoid travel not shouldn't go and it's the other way around (tier 2 should avoid tier 3). However it's not really relevant to First specifically anyway.

 

[Buses in Bath]

Thorntons lorry seen at Ellsbridge House carrying a bath City blue 6688? Didnt catch the last number.

 

[Whiteway215]

Thorntons lorry seen at Ellsbridge House carrying a bath City blue 6688? Didnt catch the last number.

It is reported that some of the 6688x Eclipses will be converted to trainers. Is that work that Thornton’s would carry out or do they only do refurb work?
66881 appears to be parked with other 6688x’s and the bendis so may also be withdrawn?

 

[Robertj21a]

It is reported that some of the 6688x Eclipses will be converted to trainers. Is that work that Thornton’s would carry out or do they only do refurb work?
66881 appears to be parked with other 6688x’s and the bendis so may also be withdrawn?

Many 668xx have been converted to driver trainers, with Thorntons involved with some of them (possibly just painting).

 

[Wessexbuses]

69458 has been painted into Discover and is at Press Commercials, Photo linked below
First 69448 and 69458 | At Press Commercial Bodyworks, Avonm… | Flickr

69458 & 69505 are also at PC

 

[Buses in Bath]

69458 has been painted into Discover and is at Press Commercials, Photo linked below
First 69448 and 69458 | At Press Commercial Bodyworks, Avonm… | Flickr

69458 & 69505 are also at PC

Why is 69458 in discover. I thought it was meant to be 69446 and 69447. Does that mean 69446 isnt going into discover?

 

[D2007wsm]

69458 has been painted into Discover and is at Press Commercials, Photo linked below
First 69448 and 69458 | At Press Commercial Bodyworks, Avonm… | Flickr

69458 & 69505 are also at PC

Does that also mean 69448 is being de Lynxed? And if so what to? Discover, Bath City, Urban?

 

[Tommy Walters]

An interesting extra working has appeared on the X39 in the morning and evening peak (spotted info on the First Bus Enthusiasts Facebook page), which is there to assist traffic levels for Oldfield School in Bath, as apparently there have been some loading issues there. This working is done by LH/MH, and today used SGL gas bus 39462, possibly marking a debut of the type in Bath in service!? I assume it stayed in Bath all day, as it didn't do anything between workings. 37356 worked the initial run yesterday, it seems.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Does that also mean 69448 is being de Lynxed? And if so what to? Discover, Bath City, Urban?

Not an unreasonable conclusion. Wonder if it's an additional for the Discover and perhaps not all the ex Airport Eclipses will be back in service?

An interesting extra working has appeared on the X39 in the morning and evening peak (spotted info on the First Bus Enthusiasts Facebook page), which is there to assist traffic levels for Oldfield School in Bath, as apparently there have been some loading issues there. This working is done by LH/MH, and today used SGL gas bus 39462, possibly marking a debut of the type in Bath in service!? I assume it stayed in Bath all day, as it didn't do anything between workings. 37356 worked the initial run yesterday, it seems.

I'd be surprised if it stayed in Bath all day; I'd imagine it just ran light to and from Lawrence Hill.

 

[Buses in Bath]

Does that also mean 69448 is being de Lynxed? And if so what to? Discover, Bath City, Urban?

I reckon it's going to have to be repainted if 69458 has been repainted into discover. There are 9 of them and if 69446, 69447 and 69458 are in discover then to have the 6 for route 5 69448 will have to go into Bath City blue

An interesting extra working has appeared on the X39 in the morning and evening peak (spotted info on the First Bus Enthusiasts Facebook page), which is there to assist traffic levels for Oldfield School in Bath, as apparently there have been some loading issues there. This working is done by LH/MH, and today used SGL gas bus 39462, possibly marking a debut of the type in Bath in service!? I assume it stayed in Bath all day, as it didn't do anything between workings. 37356 worked the initial run yesterday, it seems.

I saw that at the globe this morning. Did mention it on facebook but forgot to put it here. Oops. It went back to Lawrence Hill after its trip to Bath and apparently they're just putting on what's spare so anything could appear.

 

[Private Baxter]

69458 has been painted into Discover and is at Press Commercials, Photo linked below
First 69448 and 69458 | At Press Commercial Bodyworks, Avonm… | Flickr

69458 & 69505 are also at PC

That is unexpected. Another change of plan. Thanks for sharing anyway! Look forward to seeing it properly out and about.
*footnote both 69457 and 69458 were originally intended for Bath, but ended up at Muller Road instead.

I reckon it's going to have to be repainted if 69458 has been repainted into discover. There are 9 of them and if 69446, 69447 and 69458 are in discover then to have the 6 for route 5 69448 will have to go into Bath City blue

I saw that at the globe this morning. Did mention it on facebook but forgot to put it here. Oops. It went back to Lawrence Hill after its trip to Bath and apparently they're just putting on what's spare so anything could appear.

I agree that seems likely. Would be better to have 69448 rejoin the others. Either that, or 69446 will just go in Bath blue. I doubt it matters much.