First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[Andyh82]

Surprised there is enough room at York for all these extra buses

At one time they had a fleet of bendy buses for the Park & Ride and the bendy “ftr” buses which will have taken up a lot of room

 

[Leedsbusman]

Wondering why they've picked X1 as the route number, rather than resurrecting the X36 number that was previously used for a fast Huddersfield to Halifax service. X1 is also used by Team Pennine's Wakefield to Holmfirth service, which whilst it doesn't overlap with Huddersfield to Halifax, will be a pain for anyone looking up the timetables on the Metro website.
Though of course it is Team Pennine's service which breaks convention rather than First's.

I suspect the Team Pennine service has a faster average speed than the First one though!

 

[Deerfold]

While those improvements are very welcome, I'm less impressed with some of the reductions on the 590-2 group, which will see only an hourly service on some evenings between Todmorden and Halifax, the worst it has been in the 40 years I've lived here. The reduction from a fifteen to twenty minute headway off-peak is manageable I suppose, assuming all journeys run (ha!). I look forward to seeing the actual timetables when released.

Some bits are welcome, but it's a reduction from the original idea which would have seen 501s, 503s and X1s co-existing. Anyone who travels between West Vale and Huddersfield is going to find each journey 5-10 minutes slower with a halving of the late evening service.

I'm hoping a decent frequency will continue into the early evening before it drops to the current combined 2bph.

Anyone know if the 501/X1 is likely to go back to having a reasonable time for its last bus? Leaving Huddersfield used to be possible after 2300 - currently it's 2218!

 

[noddingdonkey]

Wonder what the thinking behind withdrawing the 200 is? I know it's a staff bus that they run in service rather than being dead mileage. Maybe the operational flexibility of not having to run it to a timetable is worth more than the tiny bit of revenue it must make?

 

[Deerfold]

Wonder what the thinking behind withdrawing the 200 is? I know it's a staff bus that they run in service rather than being dead mileage. Maybe the operational flexibility of not having to run it to a timetable is worth more than the tiny bit of revenue it must make?

Quite possibly. The timetable is already much smaller than it was - there were trips through the day, not just in the evening.

 

[Andyh82]

Some bits are welcome, but it's a reduction from the original idea which would have seen 501s, 503s and X1s co-existing.

I don’t think the frequency of each was ever known at that point

I seriously doubt there would have been more than the 8 buses per hour they have gone with

It’s typical that when they are increasing the service from 4 to 8 buses per hour, negatives are still attempting to be found

 

[M60lad]

Regarding the situation with 590-592 group I wonder whether with the changes they will be going back to the timetable where technically every hour you'll be able to get a bus from Rochdale-Burnley? In other words you'll get a 590 from Rochdale-Todmorden which will then change at Todmorden to do either a 591 or 592 from there to Burnley.

 

[Mollman]

Regarding the situation with 590-592 group I wonder whether with the changes they will be going back to the timetable where technically every hour you'll be able to get a bus from Rochdale-Burnley? In other words you'll get a 590 from Rochdale-Todmorden which will then change at Todmorden to do either a 591 or 592 from there to Burnley.

My understanding is that Burnley will have two through buses to Halifax an hour at 20/40 whilst Rochdale will have one through bus and one short to Todmorden to give an even half-hourly service.

 

[RELL6L]

Strange in West Yorkshire that, on the one hand we have BSIP funds increasing evening services on 106, 126, 148/9, 195/A/6, 268, 444/6, 496 and 548/9, while on the other we have operators reducing trunk services 202/3 and 590/1/2 from half hourly to hourly in the evening, together with the off-peak reduction in the 590/1/2 between Todmorden and Halifax. Not long ago this was every 10 minutes with buses terminating at Todmorden from the east, now there will be more buses west of Todmorden than east. So will more BSIP money increase these back again later? Pleased with the 501/503/X1 but it's amazing that this has fallen to 4bph at the moment. This is an area where you would really think, that with a bit of care and commitment, a decent bus service in the area would be well used. This comment relates as much to Arriva as to First.

 

[Whisky Papa]

One thing I am curious to see is at the times of the week when it will be an hourly service between Halifax and Todmorden, what happens to the 'other' leg west of Todmorden? Say this hourly service runs through to Burnley (xx10 from Todmorden, currently), does the Rochdale service from Todmorden stick to its usual timings on the opposite half hour, offering no useful connection, or does it move by thirty minutes to connect with buses from/to Halifax? The latter option would bring a huge amount of inconsistency between different days. It won't even save that much, unless the service is accelerated that much that Todmorden - Rochdale could be covered in an hour round trip - highly unlikely, even at night I would suggest. * - see edit below.

Incidentally, whilst the previous daytime six buses per hour might have seemed excessive from Todmorden to Halifax, it probably wasn't that excessive from Hebden Bridge eastward. Even when the 590/2 offered only two buses per hour from Todmorden, they were joined at Hebden Bridge by the 591 from Heptonstall and 593 from Old Town, although it was a 10/20/10/20 split unfortunately. Eventually the 20 minute gaps were filled by Halifax - Hebden Bridge short workings numbered 595, largely to deter competitors from slotting into those gaps.

EDIT - I've just noticed that the Metro website actually says the reduction to hourly on late Mon-Thu evenings is Halifax to Hebden Bridge, not Todmorden. Assuming this is correct and not an oversight, a two-hour Hebden Bridge - Rochdale round trip is certainly achievable, and would answer the question I had originally posed above.

Being very selfish, I rarely use the bus further east than Hebden Bridge in an evening, so personally this wouldn't have a huge impact on my travel. It still strikes me as a very potentially self-destructive way of saving a single late-turn duty, it may put off many potential passengers from using the remaining services.

 

[Deerfold]

I don’t think the frequency of each was ever known at that point

I seriously doubt there would have been more than the 8 buses per hour they have gone with

It’s typical that when they are increasing the service from 4 to 8 buses per hour, negatives are still attempting to be found

I wasn't attempting to find negatives. I was finding a negative which will affect people I know - their evening service from Huddersfield to West Vale being halved will come as a bit of a surprise to them given they're expecting more buses.

I was surprised that the X1 is to be every 15 minutes through the day. When there's previously been an express between Halifax and Huddersfield, they've only managed that frequency at the peak. It's also odd to have half of a low frequency evening service being an express.

 

[Steve440]

I wasn't attempting to find negatives. I was finding a negative which will affect people I know - their evening service from Huddersfield to West Vale being halved will come as a bit of a surprise to them given they're expecting more buses.

I was surprised that the X1 is to be every 15 minutes through the day. When there's previously been an express between Halifax and Huddersfield, they've only managed that frequency at the peak. It's also odd to have half of a low frequency evening service being an express.

The X1 apparently is not an express; it's stopping at all stops on the route.

 

[Deerfold]

The X1 apparently is not an express; it's stopping at all stops on the route.

However, it will be taking the bypass, missing out several stops on the current 503 route, including all of West Vale.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Two more to add to the list, taken from buslistsontheweb.co.uk:
63583 - ML73EAK
63584 - ML73EAM

Another two Kites, which have been recorded on buslistsontheweb.co.uk to be the following:
63585 - ML73EAO
63586 - ML73EAP

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Some bits are welcome, but it's a reduction from the original idea which would have seen 501s, 503s and X1s co-existing. Anyone who travels between West Vale and Huddersfield is going to find each journey 5-10 minutes slower with a halving of the late evening service.

I'm hoping a decent frequency will continue into the early evening before it drops to the current combined 2bph.

Anyone know if the 501/X1 is likely to go back to having a reasonable time for its last bus? Leaving Huddersfield used to be possible after 2300 - currently it's 2218!

I'm still expecting to remain as two buses an hour, basically a similar format to that of the 39 and X39 between Bath and Bristol where the 39 running the evening journey's.

As for the last 501 to Halifax (or Huddersfield for that matter) I'm not expecting to see anything run after 2300 even though I'd prefer to see at least a 2320, 0020 and an 0120 from Huddersfield with a 0001, 0100 and 0200 from Halifax as at least I know I'd be able to walk it home from Ainley Top or Elland if there were some latish journey's.

Wonder what the thinking behind withdrawing the 200 is? I know it's a staff bus that they run in service rather than being dead mileage. Maybe the operational flexibility of not having to run it to a timetable is worth more than the tiny bit of revenue it must make?

I'm putting it down to increased flexibility and to free up a spare bus or two that can be pressed into service.

One thing I am curious to see is at the times of the week when it will be an hourly service between Halifax and Todmorden. Incidentally, whilst the previous daytime six buses per hour might have seemed excessive from Todmorden to Halifax, it probably wasn't that excessive from Hebden Bridge eastward. Even when the 590/2 offered only two buses per hour from Todmorden, they were joined at Hebden Bridge by the 591 from Heptonstall and 593 from Old Town, although it was a 10/20/10/20 split unfortunately. Eventually the 20 minute gaps were filled by Halifax - Hebden Bridge short workings numbered 595, largely to deter competitors from slotting into those gaps.

EDIT - I've just noticed that the Metro website actually says the reduction to hourly on late Mon-Thu evenings is Halifax to Hebden Bridge, not Todmorden.

I still think that First are missing a trick by not inserting a 593 into 590/591/592 Halifax - Todmorden Rochdale/Burnley block which could run as far as Hebden Bridge (terminating on New Road after running via Commercial Street and Crown Street), thus giving the Upper Calder Valley four buses an hour.

 

[D6130]

still think that First are missing a trick by not inserting a 593 into 590/591/592 Halifax - Todmorden Rochdale/Burnley block which could run as far as Hebden Bridge (terminating on New Road after running via Commercial Street and Crown Street), thus giving the Upper Calder Valley four buses an hour.

I think it would be extremely tight to get a full size single or double decker round the narrow double dogleg from Commercial Street into Crown Street via Albert Street in Hebden Bridge. Probably better to run through the town to the turning circle for Heptonstall and take in a few more stops.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Wondering why they've picked X1 as the route number, rather than resurrecting the X36 number that was previously used for a fast Huddersfield to Halifax service. X1 is also used by Team Pennine's Wakefield to Holmfirth service, which whilst it doesn't overlap with Huddersfield to Halifax, will be a pain for anyone looking up the timetables on the Metro website.
Though of course it is Team Pennine's service which breaks convention rather than First's.

I recall the old M62 service which was scrapped and eventually returned as an X80.

Other services changes include the splitting of the Halifax to Siddal section of the 541/542 to become the 543 and the uplift in the depot split 548 and 549 which returns as a four buses an hour service, which will be a marked improvement over the current lopsided mess. The 548 will still be ran by Skircoat with Old Fieldhouse Land running the 549, Team Pennine's 547 is withdrawn.

Personally I think that the 547 number could be reused for a hypothetical Brighouse Town Service (read as Brighouse, Waring Green, Hove Edge and Whinney Hill loop.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Any news on the York side given that the bendys are meant to be going today and the 59 and 2 are having some route changes to allow for larger buses to operate?

 

[Leedsbusman]

Any news on the York side given that the bendys are meant to be going today and the 59 and 2 are having some route changes to allow for larger buses to operate?

Are they going today?
An enthusiast on Facebook said a driver told them they were.
The engineering manager at First York said they weren’t and still everyone believes they are because what drivers tell enthusiasts is absolute fact

I'm still expecting to remain as two buses an hour, basically a similar format to that of the 39 and X39 between Bath and Bristol where the 39 running the evening journey's.

As for the last 501 to Halifax (or Huddersfield for that matter) I'm not expecting to see anything run after 2300 even though I'd prefer to see at least a 2320, 0020 and an 0120 from Huddersfield with a 0001, 0100 and 0200 from Halifax as at least I know I'd be able to walk it home from Ainley Top or Elland if there were some latish journey's.



I'm putting it down to increased flexibility and to free up a spare bus or two that can be pressed into service.


I still think that First are missing a trick by not inserting a 593 into 590/591/592 Halifax - Todmorden Rochdale/Burnley block which could run as far as Hebden Bridge (terminating on New Road after running via Commercial Street and Crown Street), thus giving the Upper Calder Valley four buses an hour.

On 501/X1 last bus is 2310 501 from Halifax and 2358 X1 from Huddersfield. Mon-Sat. There’s a 0410 bus from Halifax Bus Station too. Hopefully First have checked it’s open this time unlike the 72 debacle!

 

[dodecahedron67]

I have heard two things from separate “higher” staff

1. From Ops: Bendys aren’t going yet. Staying for ~1mo is the current plan (again, will probs get extended).
2. From Yard: Today is last day, off for scrap midweek

Currently 11101/11103/11104 on 2s. 11102 is VOR after being involved in an incident on Walmgate midweek

To be pedantic, the route changes aren’t so “larger” buses can operate - it’s because the new buses (loss of capacity vs bendys) are too tall for Leeman Road!

 

[SLC001]

As an outsider, what will be the effect of the takeover by First of York Pullman?

 

[Leedsbusman]

As an outsider, what will be the effect of the takeover by First of York Pullman?

Given it was only announced on Friday it’s unlikely to be anything other than business as usual for now.

 

[Ant158]

As an outsider, what will be the effect of the takeover by First?

First will probably take on the extra services eventually, make a song and dance about how they've expanded the York network, then a year down the line hand back the contracts for the marginal services. I wonder if First tickets will be able to be used ie First Day, before long?

 

[dodecahedron67]

As an outsider, what will be the effect of the takeover by First of York Pullman?

Very little immediately. It’s being run as a separate business, like the Ensign purchase, for the first 2 years

First will probably take on the extra services eventually, make a song and dance about how they've expanded the York network, then a year down the line hand back the contracts for the marginal services. I wonder if First tickets will be able to be used ie First Day, before long?

Given a FirstDay is the same price as an AllYork Day, there’s no reason for this to change for now

 

[GusB]

The subject of the York Pullman acquisition is now in a separate thread, which you'll find here:

York Pullman to be sold to First Group

Agreement to acquire York Pullman Bus Company Released : 26.01.2024 https://otp.tools.investis.com/generic/regulatory-story.aspx?newsid=1783100&cid=858 FIRSTGROUP PLC AGREEMENT TO ACQUIRE YORK PULLMAN BUS COMPANY Agreement to acquire York Pullman Bus Company Ltd, a high-performing...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[YorkRailFan]

I was in York centre today and saw lots of bendys on route 2, operating on the altered route returning to the centre via Bootham and not via Leeman Road.

 

[Seehof]

What has happened to York Electroliner 36528? Is it actually in York now or is it not due to come at all? I think all the Kites are here though.

 

[SCH117X]

The West Yorkshire Information Service Fleet list for First York (accessible from www.wyis.org.uk) comments that

just 36528 outstanding from the deliveries of new electric vehicles to this fleet

 

[dodecahedron67]

I was in York centre today and saw lots of bendys on route 2, operating on the altered route returning to the centre via Bootham and not via Leeman Road.

Bendys used today in case anyone forgot about the change, rather than lose the roof on a decker lol

 

[YorkRailFan]

Bendys used today in case anyone forgot about the change, rather than lose the roof on a decker lol

So they're going tomorrow?