Flexibility of changing - Exeter or Plymouth?

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cle

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I've bought two advanced tickets from Truro to London on Sun May 8th.

They were significantly cheaper than the direct train - timetabled as:

Leg 1 of 2
Truro d 14:19
Exeter St Davids a 16:55 2:36hrs
Leg 2 of 2
Exeter St Davids d 17:19
London Paddington a 20:21 3:02hrs

But obviously this first slow train will also stop at Plymouth, where the second London train begins. It routed me with a change at Exeter, but obviously I'd rather jump off at Plymouth, and get on the HST there.

Is this allowed? It's the same journey, but just changing at a different spot - could also be Totnes or Newton Abbot technically?!

I'm guessing it gave me that as a default because Exeter is the shorter layover? But I'd rather wait longer in Plymouth, and then ride the HST.
 
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me123

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I don't think it would be allowed. You're tickets are valid for the booked train only, and because the reservation for the second train will only be from Exeter to Paddington, you can only use that train from Exeter to Paddington.

If you could have got the booking engine to allow you to change at Plymouth, then it would have printed you Plymouth-Paddington reservations and consequently you'd have been able to use the HST from Plymouth.
 

island

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With an advance ticket you are supposed to travel exactly as booked, and you run the risk of having to buy an anytime ticket at full price if you don't. I assume your reservation coupons will refer to the trains you booked, or at least the second one. I wouldn't risk it.
 

bb21

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If the first leg of your journey does not come with a mandatory reservations coupon, which makes it a recommended service, then it is debatable as to whether you are allowed to join the HST without a reservation for the Plymouth - Exeter section. I don't think we have reached consensus on here before.

FYI in the up direction towards Paddington, the best place to change is Taunton, as your trains would call at the same platform. Of course I know it might not be relevant in this case.
 

cle

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I think my first train terminates at Exeter, for what it's worth.

Not sounding good:

I don't think it would be allowed. You're tickets are valid for the booked train only, and because the reservation for the second train will only be from Exeter to Paddington, you can only use that train from Exeter to Paddington.

This makes sense, from what I know of the rules. Shame, would be much better...

In a twist, I was hoping to maybe upgrade to first class when on the HST. Would that be possible with the cheapest advance ticket, and would that help or hinder me if I tried to get on at Plymouth and upgrade?
 

bb21

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In a twist, I was hoping to maybe upgrade to first class when on the HST. Would that be possible with the cheapest advance ticket, and would that help or hinder me if I tried to get on at Plymouth and upgrade?

Weekend First Upgrade does not change the validity of your original ticket
 

bignosemac

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FYI in the up direction towards Paddington, the best place to change is Taunton, as your trains would call at the same platform. Of course I know it might not be relevant in this case.

That presupposes that the OPs first train is going all the way to Taunton. It doesn't.

Taunton is also signalled bi-directonal on all platforms. There is no absolute guarantee that all UP services will always call at the same platform.
 

Zoe

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Taunton is also signalled bi-directonal on all platforms.
Unless there has been a very recent resignalling, you can't depart towards Exeter from platforms 4 or 5. Actually you can't even access platforms 4 or 5 from Bristol.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you are leaving the first train at Plymouth when you are booked through to Exeter then as discussed in other threads, you are breaking the terms of your ticket. In theory you could pay £20 to change both tickets but a cheaper option would be to get an Off Peak Day Single on the day from Truro to Exeter and then use your Exeter to London advance fare from there.
 
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bignosemac

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Unless there has been a very recent resignalling, you can't depart towards Exeter from platforms 4 or 5. Actually you can't even access platforms 4 or 5 from Bristol.
Yes, Zoe, you are right. Despite Taunton being my home town I'd forgotten what the layout was, exactly. I can still remember when Taunton only had 3 platforms. 1 (down) & 2 (up) for through trains and the Bristol facing bay, platform 3. Following remodelling, renumbering and reopening of the island platforms, it's only platforms 2 and 3 (nominally on the 'down' lines) that are fully bi-di. It is possible, though unusual, for UP services to call at platform 4 (on the central island).
 
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yorkie

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Is the first train is reserved or merely suggested? My answer will depend on that information.
 

hairyhandedfool

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The first train is non-reservable which makes me think what Yorkie is about to suggest is probably 'unwise', or (IMO) plain wrong.

The ticket is either 'rte AP Slough' or 'rte FGW only' which means you must use the booked services. So joining the HST before your booked change at Exeter could leave you with a new ticket to buy with no refund on the advance.
 

Zoe

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Is the first train is reserved or merely suggested? My answer will depend on that information.
The above post suggests that they have two advance fares. If the first train was just suggested then they wouldn't have been issued an advance fare. I get the impression that the person has two separate advance tickets.
 

hairyhandedfool

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It's quite possible to have the one ticket, but the fare is either 'rte AP Slough' or 'rte FGW Only' and only the op can say which it is, not that it makes a difference to this question.
 

Zoe

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It's quite possible to have the one ticket, but the fare is either 'rte AP Slough' or 'rte FGW Only' and only the op can say which it is, not that it makes a difference to this question.
Indeed it is but the above post said they have two advance tickets. However we will wait for confirmation.....
 

hairyhandedfool

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Ah, sorry I thought you were refering to my post. I got the impression from the Op that two tickets were bought for two people. If it is split tickets for one person, we need more detail as the routeing on them is the important bit.
 

Zoe

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Splitting advance fares also seems quite a risky thing to do as if you first train is delayed and you miss your connection then I would have thought the TOC has no duty to you as in their eyes it actually wouldn't be a connection.
 
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Zoe

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Does anyone have a link to the previous discussion on this?
 

DaveNewcastle

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and probs on this (long) one too : http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36132


Returning to the OP, it seems quite clear to me that the answer is, sorry, but no. If your tickets are 'Advance' then they are valid only for travel on the booked trains.
And the 'get out of jail card' is, if purchased as the one transaction, then take the documentaion which shows that the multiple tickets form just the one 'journey' and just the one transaction with just one company
 
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Failed Unit

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I've bought two advanced tickets from Truro to London on Sun May 8th.

They were significantly cheaper than the direct train - timetabled as:

Leg 1 of 2
Truro d 14:19
Exeter St Davids a 16:55 2:36hrs
Leg 2 of 2
Exeter St Davids d 17:19
London Paddington a 20:21 3:02hrs

But obviously this first slow train will also stop at Plymouth, where the second London train begins. It routed me with a change at Exeter, but obviously I'd rather jump off at Plymouth, and get on the HST there.

Is this allowed? It's the same journey, but just changing at a different spot - could also be Totnes or Newton Abbot technically?!

I'm guessing it gave me that as a default because Exeter is the shorter layover? But I'd rather wait longer in Plymouth, and then ride the HST.

For interest could you have got an AP from Truro - Plymouth and the 2nd from Plymouth - London or would this have put the price up too much?
 

devon_metro

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It's a fairly simple change at Exeter anyway, Platform 6 to Platform 5, both of which are on the same island.
 

yorkie

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Splitting advance fares also seems quite a risky thing to do as if you first train is delayed and you miss your connection then I would have thought the TOC has no duty to you as in their eyes it actually wouldn't be a connection.
I do not agree with this at all, but I won't go into it because it's been discussed so many times before, and the OP hasn't stated that they are using a combination of tickets (although they may be as it is unclear, but I was assuming not).

I am not commenting further until the OP provides sufficient information, unfortunately I do not think that the rules that are available to us will be sufficient to conclude either way anyway though.
 

hairyhandedfool

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.... unfortunately I do not think that the rules that are available to us will be sufficient to conclude either way anyway though.

What rules are unclear exactly? If it is a through ticket it is not routed '& connections' and therefore is booked trains only. As the Op has no reservation between Plymouth and Exeter, if the Op boarded a reservable service for that part of the journey, it would be a clear change of travel plans. given Truro ticket office should be open (according to the FRPP) the only option for the Guard/TM (by the book) is a new ticket. If the Op has split tickets and the relevant one is routed '& connections' then that might be different.
 

yorkie

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What rules are unclear exactly?
Well, you tell me which rule prevents the customer using a reservable train when he doesn't hold a reservation for that portion of the journey.
If it is a through ticket it is not routed '& connections' and therefore is booked trains only.
You and I both know that there is an oversight here, and you have admitted in previous discussions that your strict interpretation could mean that the customer can't travel until reaching the first reserved train, which would not make sense at all.

The wording is most unsatisfactory I think we both agree on that?
 

hairyhandedfool

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Well, you tell me which rule prevents the customer using a reservable train when he doesn't hold a reservation for that portion of the journey.

The ticket is only valid on booked trains unless routed '& connections'. Therefore, not having a reservation for a reservable service is a clear change of travel plans as the through tickets are not routed '& connections'.

....You and I both know that there is an oversight here, and you have admitted in previous discussions that your strict interpretation could mean that the customer can't travel until reaching the first reserved train, which would not make sense at all.

The wording is most unsatisfactory I think we both agree on that?

The wording isn't good, however my 'interpretation' was that unreservable services must still be considered booked. The point I made in previous discussion was that if they were not, then you could not use the ticket, and as you say, that makes no sense, but it is the only alternative assumption that can be drawn from the conditions.

There are four ways to clarify the situation.

1) Re-write the conditions.

2) Issue reservation coupons (with stars in place of seat numbers) for all non-reservable services.

3) Where there is a non-reservable service involved, only offer 'Advance' fares routed '& connections' for the journey.

4) Only offer 'Advance' fares where all services can be booked.

Number 3 would appear to be the best one for most parties, but would you like to be the one that says a 'FGW only' ticket cannot be bought for use on an FGW service?

Number 2 is infact the most logical and probably simplest option, but then we are eroding what little flexibility the 'Advance' fare has!
 

MikeWh

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2) Issue reservation coupons (with stars in place of seat numbers) for all non-reservable services.

Number 2 is infact the most logical and probably simplest option, but then we are eroding what little flexibility the 'Advance' fare has!

I'll go with number 2 if you can tell me how to tell which tube train I am booked on when crossing London.
 
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