Flexible Rail Season Tickets - 2/3 days per week to be introduced by June 2021

[infobleep]

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However WMT do have some 'skeletons' in their closet - for example a "WMR/LNR only" Rugby to Stafford FL1 costs 67% more than an "Any Permitted" FL1. Now, I realise that most people would make that journey by the hourly direct WMT service, so the TOC restriction is not particularly onerous. But why would anyone pay two thirds more for less validity?! The FL1 isn't the only WMT fare on that flow that's more expensive than the Any Permitted.

Some very strange things happening on Pitsea to London either way - even a normal 7DS costs more than 5 SDRs. c2c might want to have a rethink of that one.

I do wonder if some of these are things they aren't aware of. Perhaps if their pricing managers read this they will do something about it, if they are allowed to.

 

[hooverboy]

The problem is if you are a 2 day a week commuter you have a high likelyhood of not getting through your 8 days in a 4 week period.

If you are a two day a week commuter, you would be better off speaking to your employer and telling( not asking) them that you will be working flexi time with a post 10am start.
That way you will save 1/3 from peak time fares, and potentially more with applicable railcard.

You would save more doing it that way and buying individual tickets than you would with one of these flexi seasons.
lets take luton to st pancras travelcard season as an example.
weekly ticket is £221
flexi is £221
monthly is £549

8* super off peak travelcard £193.60
8* super off peak travelcard+ network railcard = £127.60

The overall value on the flexi tickets is nowhere near compelling enough.
If they had them on offer for 8 days in 28,calculated at close to off-peak price rather than peaktime, then there would be a case to answer for them.

 

[CrispyUK]

However WMT do have some 'skeletons' in their closet - for example a "WMR/LNR only" Rugby to Stafford FL1 costs 67% more than an "Any Permitted" FL1. Now, I realise that most people would make that journey by the hourly direct WMT service, so the TOC restriction is not particularly onerous. But why would anyone pay two thirds more for less validity?! The FL1 isn't the only WMT fare on that flow that's more expensive than the Any Permitted.

Do pricing managers have visibility of what other TOCs are planning during the process of fares being set/changed or is it all done independently and then published together?

As you have mentioned, there are other fares such as the 7 Day Season and SVR where Any Permitted is cheaper than the TOC specific fare.

I’m wondering if each TOC has to guess what the other is going to do where there are multiple fare setters on a flow which could lead to this kind of outcome?

i.e. WMT assume that Avanti are going to increase the 7DS by x amount, so price their WMR/LNR only fare aiming to sit just below this and undercut it (as they would get all revenue for those tickets under ORCATS right?) - but then Avanti apply a smaller increase so the Any Permitted comes out cheapest (possibly second guessing WMT’s plans to maintain the relevant share under ORCATS even if most people are getting the WMT services?)

 

[infobleep]

If you are a two day a week commuter, you would be better off speaking to your employer and telling( not asking) them that you will be working flexi time with a post 10am start.
That way you will save 1/3 from peak time fares, and potentially more with applicable railcard.

You would save more doing it that way and buying individual tickets than you would with one of these flexi seasons.
lets take luton to st pancras travelcard season as an example.
weekly ticket is £221
flexi is £221
monthly is £549

8* super off peak travelcard £193.60
8* super off peak travelcard+ network railcard = £127.60

The overall value on the flexi tickets is nowhere near compelling enough.
If they had them on offer for 8 days in 28,calculated at close to off-peak price rather than peaktime, then there would be a case to answer for them.

How late do you wish to get into the office, given Network Rail Card only valid from 10am.

I prefer a cheap season ticket with Gold Card. I would start towards 10:30 am, although I might have the opportunity to start earlier, if I purchase a different ticket from elsewhere.

 

[JonathanH]

How late do you wish to get into the office, given Network Rail Card only valid from 10am.

I prefer a cheap season ticket with Gold Card. I would start towards 10:30 am, although I might have the opportunity to start earlier, if I purchase a different ticket from elsewhere.

I think the concept some have described is working from home until 10am, answering emails and having early meetings, then travelling mid morning to be in the office from late morning. Therefore, you aren't really starting late, just splitting the workplace up.

 

[PeterC]

I think the concept some have described is working from home until 10am, answering emails and having early meetings, then travelling mid morning to be in the office from late morning. Therefore, you aren't really starting late, just splitting the workplace up.

Fine if the employer doesn't specify core hours that must be covered.

 

[telstarbox]

That does sound a bit tail wagging the dog. If it looks like people will be buying fewer Annuals, reduce the Anytime price so it remains vaguely competitive.

 

[infobleep]

I think the concept some have described is working from home until 10am, answering emails and having early meetings, then travelling mid morning to be in the office from late morning. Therefore, you aren't really starting late, just splitting the workplace up.

I see your point.

Fine if the employer doesn't specify core hours that must be covered.

One could work on the train but mobile data reception is still too patchy to make it work. Certainly on O2.

Whilst one can argue for and against flexi-seasons, I for one won't be buying them. If there are more people like me than those who buy them, they might not work out. Only time will tell.

 

[Haywain]

Whilst one can argue for and against flexi-seasons, I for one won't be buying them. If there are more people like me than those who buy them, they might not work out. Only time will tell.

There are more people who don’t buy season tickets than those that do - does that make season tickets a bad idea?

 

[mmh]

There are more people who don’t buy season tickets than those that do - does that make season tickets a bad idea?

Poor reasoning, I'm afraid. There are more people interested in railways not on this forum than those who are. Does that make the forum a bad idea? Obviously not.

 

[Ianno87]

One could work on the train but mobile data reception is still too patchy to make it work. Certainly on O2.

On train WiFi is generally good enough to at least do e-mails etc. Or with no Internet I do offline work such as drafting reports, or "brainstorming" type activities.

That is my general approach. Process e-mails first thing, get the first off-peak train (work on the go) and then meet people in the afternoon. Then pub.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How late do you wish to get into the office, given Network Rail Card only valid from 10am.

I prefer a cheap season ticket with Gold Card. I would start towards 10:30 am, although I might have the opportunity to start earlier, if I purchase a different ticket from elsewhere.

On many routes single out, NSE discounted single back will be considerably cheaper than an Anytime Day Return with no loss of flexibility (unless you also wanted to return before 10am).

 

[infobleep]

There are more people who don’t buy season tickets than those that do - does that make season tickets a bad idea?

No, but enough people use to buy season tickets to make them worthwhile.

Whereas it will be interesting to see if enough people buy flexi-seasons to see if they are worthwhile.

I accept season tickets are unlikely to be purchased in the same quality they use to be.

On train WiFi is generally good enough to at least do e-mails etc. Or with no Internet I do offline work such as drafting reports, or "brainstorming" type activities.

That is my general approach. Process e-mails first thing, get the first off-peak train (work on the go) and then meet people in the afternoon. Then pub.

For security reasons I can't work offline using my laptop.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For security reasons I can't work offline using my laptop.

Given that Bitlocker (Windows Pro disk encryption) renders the data on a lost machine basically inaccessible, that is somewhat at the paranoid end of things, and isn't true of the vast majority of remote workers, who these days are probably mostly using synced drives (predominantly Onedrive via Office 365).

 

[Wallsendmag]

No, but enough people use to buy season tickets to make them worthwhile.

Whereas it will be interesting to see if enough people buy flexi-seasons to see if they are worthwhile.

I accept season tickets are unlikely to be purchased in the same quality they use to be.


For security reasons I can't work offline using my laptop

An here's me thinking our Infosec team were strict

 

[infobleep]

Given that Bitlocker (Windows Pro disk encryption) renders the data on a lost machine basically inaccessible, that is somewhat at the paranoid end of things, and isn't true of the vast majority of remote workers.

We allow people to use their own devices and Google do not let you lock down the use of offline work to individual devices, only to user profiles.

As one can"t enforce encryption on a personal laptop, unlike on a mobile phone, it can't be allowed.

All work laptops are encrypted.

I've read a number of year's ago that Google we're going to enable offline working to be locked down at device level vut nothing as ever happened.

Either it's too difficult to do or Google don't care. I wouldn't like to say which it js.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, it can be allowed because we do BYOD* with no such requirement, but that does depend on how sensitive the data is and how paranoid your security team is.

* Bring your own device

 

[infobleep]

Well, it can be allowed because we do BYOD* with no such requirement, but that does depend on how sensitive the data is and how paranoid your security team is.

* Bring your own device

My data mostly isn't sensitive but some peoples most definitely would be.

 

[35B]

Well, it can be allowed because we do BYOD* with no such requirement, but that does depend on how sensitive the data is and how paranoid your security team is.

* Bring your own device

I think the clue may be in the combination of BYOD and Google.

 

[infobleep]

I think the clue may be in the combination of BYOD and Google.

As a friend once said to me. The only good thing about Google was the fact multiple people could work on a document at once but this is going too off topic so will end it there.
.

 

[miklcct]

I'm checking some fares between London St Prancas and Dover Priory, however it seems that no flexi season is available but only regular season tickets. What's the reason that such ticket is not available?

Moreover, is a flexi season a good value in general for regular off-peak / weekend commuting for 2-3 days per week?

 

[Watershed]

I'm checking some fares between London St Prancas and Dover Priory, however it seems that no flexi season is available but only regular season tickets. What's the reason that such ticket is not available?

Because the regular season ticket is already "too" cheap, in comparison to the cost of a daily Anytime ticket in the peak (London) direction, for it to be seen as acceptable to provide anything that is cheaper than that (per month).

See here for my comment explaining the pricing policy for Flexi Season tickets.

Moreover, is a flexi season a good value in general for regular off-peak / weekend commuting for 2-3 days per week?

There will be few, if any, journeys where a Flexi Season represents a saving against using Off-Peak tickets, let alone Super Off-Peak tickets and/or travelling 3 days a week.

Flexi Seasons will save people who consistently travel 2 days a week every week at peak times, on short to medium length journeys, a very modest amount of money (typically about 12.5%). They are useless for just about anything else.

 

[miklcct]

On train WiFi is generally good enough to at least do e-mails etc. Or with no Internet I do offline work such as drafting reports, or "brainstorming" type activities.

That is my general approach. Process e-mails first thing, get the first off-peak train (work on the go) and then meet people in the afternoon. Then pub.

This is not true in my experience.

I have travelled on the SWR between Bournemouth and Branksome many times, and most of the journey is a mobile blackspot with zero reception (I'm using 3). Also, the SWR WiFi never works. I can't even open any web site when I am connected to the SWR WiFi onboard.

 

[DB]

Given that Bitlocker (Windows Pro disk encryption) renders the data on a lost machine basically inaccessible, that is somewhat at the paranoid end of things, and isn't true of the vast majority of remote workers, who these days are probably mostly using synced drives (predominantly Onedrive via Office 365).

Many companies will be using some sort of VDI system - which works well with BYOD as it only requires a lightweight client program, and no data is stored locally. It does require a constant internet connection, though.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I'm checking some fares between London St Prancas and Dover Priory, however it seems that no flexi season is available but only regular season tickets.

I can see a Flexi Season for £546.80 +HS1, and £456.80 the old way.

 

[Ianno87]

This is not true in my experience.

I have travelled on the SWR between Bournemouth and Branksome many times, and most of the journey is a mobile blackspot with zero reception (I'm using 3). Also, the SWR WiFi never works. I can't even open any web site when I am connected to the SWR WiFi onboard.

I seldom use SWR wi-fi, but regularly use GTR (Thameslink/Great Northern), Greater Anglia, Crosscountry, LNER/Avanti wi-fi systems and they are all at least passable for light e-mail/browsing.

 

[miklcct]

I can see a Flexi Season for £546.80 +HS1, and £456.80 the old way.

The Southeastern website doesn't show it. It returns no tickets with options London St Pancras - Dover Priory, adult, starting 17 July, flexi season only, no railcard.

Also, this price is much more expensive than buying off peak day returns one by one, making it completely useless for regular weekend travels, with off peak day returns priced at £35.7.

 

[JonathanH]

Also, this price is much more expensive than buying off peak day returns one by one, making it completely useless for regular weekend travels, with off peak day returns priced at £35.7.

To be fair, it isn't aimed at the off-peak or weekend market.

 

[BluePenguin]

To be fair, it isn't aimed at the off-peak or weekend market.

Some people are lucky to earn £100 a day, so for them buying even an Off Peak Day Return at £35.70 is rather a large chunk of their wage gone. It is not good enough

 

[JonathanH]

Some people are lucky to earn £100 a day, so for them buying even an Off Peak Day Return at £35.70 is rather a large chunk of their wage gone. It is not good enough

I'm not sure a flexi season is going to help in that circumstance. I appreciate that £35.70 is a lot of money for some people but how frequently does someone have to make a return journey costing that much repeatedly? The only thing I can think of is perhaps the instance of a sick relative.