Go Cornwall Bus

[Goldfish62]

Your implication that it isn't. All the council have to do is do what TfL do for low frequency services.

I wasn't implying anything.

TfL's type of performance regime which requires either manual monitoring or automatic if it can be done through Ticketer is of course not the only way. Some local authorities base it on mileage operated via self-declared manual returns from operators.

 

[Busaholic]

It would then have too much in common with the 87 to be subsidised

Arguable - if there were seen to be travellers from Redruth to Perranporth, or vice versa, then maybe it could be subsidised.

 

[83G/84D]

In normal times I would use the 88 for leisure travel rather than a car journey or 2 buses and a much longer end to end time. If things are back to something like normal come Spring next year maybe I will sample a TfC service for the first time. If the route continues I will give it a try.

Like many people I have cut back on most non essential travel for the last few months.

 

[Lizard1324]

There are two e400mmc on the 34 today.
The first time a e400mmc has been on the 34 now there are two

 

[MotCO]

We are talking about tendered services, so surely if performance is not satisfactory then sanctions can be applied, ultimately terminating the contract if necessary?

Who is responsible for setting the timetables, TfC or Go-Cornwall? If the former, and the times are unworkable, then Go-Cornwall should not be penalised.

 

[Goldfish62]

I've been reading the article on TfC in Coach & Bus Week. It is of course very much focussed on the operator perspective.

Summary of some of the main points:
- each tender was for one of 73 local bus routes (and 190 schools contracts), with three options for each.
- PCB submitted an additional alternative option which we now know to be operating everything, while subcontracting some work to keep independents in business.
- this reduced PVR by 27%
- base timetables provided by the council were improved upon by allowing better connections with bus and rail, and PVR was reduced by "making changes to longer layover periods".
- Livery and brand were discussed after the tender win. Cornwall Council wanted a TfL-style livery and did the detailed design work.
- TfC is owned by the council.
- all bidders were offered the option to partner with Corserv.
- the tender requirements were that all buses be Euro VI by 2024. This means that around a third of the fleet will need retrofitting.
- USB ports "at the front section" of the buses.
- currently around 30 drivers short.
- "we have had unjust reviews from people looking from afar.....it's not about painting the buses in four different colours and fitting them out with all the gizmos".

I'm sure there'll be some raised eyebrows elsewhere in the GoAhead empire at that last point, which also contradicts Richard Stevens shortly after winning the contracts.

Nothing at all mentioned about integration with the core commercial bus network in Cornwall.

 

[MotCO]

I've been reading the article on TfC in Coach & Bus Week. It is of course very much focussed on the operator perspective.

Summary of some of the main points:
- each tender was for one of 73 local bus routes (and 190 schools contracts), with three options for each.
- PCB submitted an additional alternative option which we now know to be operating everything, while subcontracting some work to keep independents in business.
- this reduced PVR by 27%
- base timetables provided by the council were improved upon by allowing better connections with bus and rail, and PVR was reduced by "making changes to longer layover periods".
- Livery and brand were discussed after the tender win. Cornwall Council wanted a TfL-style livery and did the detailed design work.
- TfC is owned by the council.
- all bidders were offered the option to partner with Corserv.
- the tender requirements were that all buses be Euro VI by 2024. This means that around a third of the fleet will need retrofitting.
- USB ports "at the front section" of the buses.
- currently around 30 drivers short.
- "we have had unjust reviews from people looking from afar.....it's not about painting the buses in four different colours and fitting them out with all the gizmos".

I'm sure there'll be some raised eyebrows elsewhere in the GoAhead empire at that last point, which also contradicts Richard Stevens shortly after winning the contracts.

Nothing at all mentioned about integration with the core commercial bus network in Cornwall.

So new buses were not required - just to be Euro VI compliant within 4 years. Also reduced layovers to reduce PVR - in other words, no layover, and late arrivals/departures.

Also, 'only' 30 drivers short - out of how many?

 

[carlberry]

Who is responsible for setting the timetables, TfC or Go-Cornwall? If the former, and the times are unworkable, then Go-Cornwall should not be penalised.

Why not? Go-Cornwall have agreed to operate the tender and, from the poast above, it sounds like they even tinkered with the TfC timetable to reduce layover times.

- Livery and brand were discussed after the tender win. Cornwall Council wanted a TfL-style livery and did the detailed design work.

I'm not sure what 'detailed design work' is required when the livery is just plain red!

 

[richw]

currently around 30 drivers short.

They’ve currently got 53 vacancies advertised on their own website!

 

[fgwrich]

I'm not sure what 'detailed design work' is required when the livery is just plain red!

Indeed. This comment also caught my eye, I'm sure they promised vehicles with USB sockets / Air Conditioning etc. So FK's core vehicles will still be showing up the TFC / GSW vehicles.

- USB ports "at the front section" of the buses.

 

[MotCO]

Why not? Go-Cornwall have agreed to operate the tender and, from the poast above, it sounds like they even tinkered with the TfC timetable to reduce layover times.

Yes they have agreed to operate the tender, but if the times are unrealistic, and were set by TfC, then no company could adhere to them, and it would not be appropriate to penalise Go-Cornwall. If it went to law, then I would expect the case from TfC to be thrown out as being unreasonable.

 

[richw]

we have had unjust reviews from people looking from afar

Pretty sure most of the reviews I’ve seen that are negative have been quite an accurate reflection.

A high profile stagecoach manager from up country was in the area recently, and walking for a TfC bus and it sailed past him several minutes early as he approached the stop. He experienced several other issues with TfC during his holiday to Cornwall. Was his social media criticism unjust? I don’t think so, and he’s a neutral person from within the industry with no bias between first and go ahead, or connection to this region.

 

[MotCO]

They’ve currently got 53 vacancies advertised on their own website!

May not all be drivers! Could be cleaners, mechanics etc.

 

[richw]

So FK's core vehicles will still be showing up the TFC / GSW vehicles

Even our Gemini’s have air conditoning. Not comparable to the Enviros but still functional. Some of the old Gemini’s have WiFi too, once they are painted and internally refreshed I suspect they will be a more pleasant experience

May not all be drivers! Could be cleaners, mechanics etc.

No it’s 53 drivers. Each depot listed and how many drivers at each.
Edit- hadn’t checked for a week or so, it’s now down to 24.
cleaners and mechanics in Cornwall is outsourced to Cormac

 

[Lizard1324]

I didn't realise tfc were doing adverts on there buses, saw one today one the 34 on the back of a e200mmc and it is a full rear advert kind of like the one on the first kernow e400mmc

 

[Goldfish62]

I didn't realise tfc were doing adverts on there buses, saw one today one the 34 on the back of a e200mmc and it is a full rear advert kind of like the one on the first kernow e400mmc

It would explain why the livery is plain on the rear except for the TfC logo in the window.

 

[swifty]

Even our Gemini’s have air conditoning. Not comparable to the Enviros but still functional. Some of the old Gemini’s have WiFi too, once they are painted and internally refreshed I suspect they will be a more pleasant experience

On most of the Gemini’s cascaded from Bristol it was only in the cab for the drivers though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

On most of the Gemini’s cascaded from Bristol it was only in the cab for the drivers though.

Hmmm..... struggling to think of any First B7s or B9s with air-con. The ex Green Line ones might have but I don't think so.

 

[swifty]

Hmmm..... struggling to think of any First B7s or B9s with air-con. The ex Green Line ones might have but I don't think so.

They’re the only ones I can think of that might, even then it might just be forced air ventilation over the stairs.

 

[dgl]

Hmmm..... struggling to think of any First B7s or B9s with air-con. The ex Green Line ones might have but I don't think so.

I believe the greenline ones do, there certinaly is what would be an aircon vent on the top deck on the ones that went to Weymouth, don't think it's operational though.

 

[swifty]

I believe the greenline ones do, there certinaly is what would be an aircon vent on the top deck on the ones that went to Weymouth, don't think it's operational though.

LK55ACO at Glasgow possibly has/has air con at one point as well. It’s got the same vents between the decks at the rear and the small windows over the stairs.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They’re the only ones I can think of that might, even then it might just be forced air ventilation over the stairs.

Yeah, that's what I think the Green Line ones. I'd be surprised if it was full air-con and more surprised if it would be working now

 

[richw]

Hmmm..... struggling to think of any First B7s or B9s with air-con. The ex Green Line ones might have but I don't think so.

Some have the snowflake aircon button, others don’t. I’ll try and work out which batches have the aircon. As mentioned above may be only driver cab, and may not function anymore!

 

[swifty]

Some have the snowflake aircon button, others don’t. I’ll try and work out which batches have the aircon. As mentioned above may be only driver cab, and may not function anymore!

The 370xx ex Bristol batch should have cab air con. Not sure on the ex Glasgow batch.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some have the snowflake aircon button, others don’t. I’ll try and work out which batches have the aircon. As mentioned above may be only driver cab, and may not function anymore!

I suspect it’s cab only. The chiller unit on Green Lines and a few other examples (including one batch of B9s for Glasgow) is identifiable by differing window profiles on the 2nd/3rd o/s upstairs windows.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yeah, that's what I think the Green Line ones. I'd be surprised if it was full air-con and more surprised if it would be working now

The Green Line ones have London-type air chill units.

The main unit and air intake is above the stairs, with outlet vents above the off-side windows along the length of the deck.

On the Green Line Geminis the windows were always locked unless the air chill failed. On TfL spec buses windows are not lockable, which is just as well as the units never seem to be maintained.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Green Line ones have London-type air chill units.

The main unit and air intake is above the stairs, with outlet vents above the off-side windows along the length of the deck.

On the Green Line Geminis the windows were always locked unless the air chill failed. On TfL spec buses windows are not lockable, which is just as well as the units never seem to be maintained.

I think we're in agreement. It's a chiller unit rather than air-con and fitted to the Green Lines examples and, curiously, 37530-44 in Glasgow, as I discovered.

Not waiting for First or Go Ahead to introduce full air-con to Cornwall any time soon.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think we're in agreement. It's a chiller unit rather than air-con and fitted to the Green Lines examples and, curiously, 37530-44 in Glasgow, as I discovered.

Not waiting for First or Go Ahead to introduce full air-con to Cornwall any time soon.

Certainly would never be worth it. The increased weight of the vehicle would reduce passenger capacity and the aircon itself would increase fuel consumption. The only air conditioned buses I've experienced in Cornwall were the lovely former Airbus Olympians and on these it was eventually isolated.

Besides which Cornwall doesn't get the really searing summer temperatures that the South East has been experiencing in recent years.

 

[fgwrich]

I think we're in agreement. It's a chiller unit rather than air-con and fitted to the Green Lines examples and, curiously, 37530-44 in Glasgow, as I discovered.

Not waiting for First or Go Ahead to introduce full air-con to Cornwall any time soon.

Trying not to divert the thread too much here, but what set up does the FK / Former FK E200s have? Is that full aircon or cab air con?

Perhaps the only Air Con vehicles in Cornwall for now will be the P&R Mercs.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Trying not to divert the thread too much here, but what set up does the FK / Former FK E200s have? Is that full aircon or cab air con?

Perhaps the only Air Con vehicles in Cornwall for now will be the P&R Mercs.

I'm happy to be corrected but I think they have chiller units rather than full air-con; the roof pod looks a bit small for full air-con. Not even certain that the Citaros have it.

Of course, we have had air-conditioned vehicles before (photo courtesy of Solenteer)....

40038 - S378 SUX

Green Street, Truro

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