Grand Central Discussion

[andylloyd]

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate the mechanical faults are out of your hands although I would ask whether the company who fitted and kitted out the vehicles are competent or a bit of a 'cowboy organisation'. They must be costing the company thousands in lost revenue not to mention bad will from the public.

I note that you mention your Line Manager and Operations Director were regular travellers UNTIL the supplement's introduction and of course the increase in delays and cancellations. Did they know something you didn't or are they too cowardly to face the paying passenger and explain the reasons for hiking up prices whilst downgrading service? Either way, the impression I, and many other frequent passengers get, is that the company is not very 'people friendly' and that any man-management skills are negligible at best.

I understand you aren't at liberty to criticise your managers on here but I think it's important that the on-board team aren't 'hung out to dry' whilst the men who make the big decisions sit in their nice new offices completely removed from all the flak that is flying!

For the time being I cannot risk travelling on a GC train, due to the worry of never actually getting to my destination, which is an absurd situation. I wish you success in re-establishing the 'brand' but it will take an enormous amount of effort as for many, the damage is already done.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
P.S Are you Runway, Catalogue or 'Lads Mag'?

Why dont you give the folks(i.e GC) a chance to settle down?
Every company has teething issues, I know that as I work for a very large high street retailer. It takes time

Eventually when I can get some beloved time off of work, i'd be more than happy to bash a GC service or two and meet the elusive BOSCH and Sir Clag

Sir Clag/Bosch and the team, you seem to be giving a damn good service considering the setbacks your having at the moment. I'm sure over time everything will settle down again

Regards

Andy

 

[BOSCH]

Cheers Andy,appreciate that.
Personally I think this maybe a wind up,the bit about the modelling "I know a good photographer etc" and "are you runway,catalogue or lads mag",WTF !!

 

[185132]

Why dont you give the folks(i.e GC) a chance to settle down?
Every company has teething issues, I know that as I work for a very large high street retailer. It takes time

Eventually when I can get some beloved time off of work, i'd be more than happy to bash a GC service or two and meet the elusive BOSCH and Sir Clag

Sir Clag/Bosch and the team, you seem to be giving a damn good service considering the setbacks your having at the moment. I'm sure over time everything will settle down again

Regards

Andy

I totally agree with you there. I've used GC many times now, including back on Easter Sunday when the service from KGX broke down at Newark, leaving us stuck in the freezing cold!

Even though it's not the staff's fault when there's issues like that, they genuinely seem to care about getting the passengers home, which as a passenger is much appreciated. They even had to try and keep tabs on some drunk idiot running off every 5 minutes to have a crafty cigarette, where I'd have just left the idiot there!

In return I've got a 1st class return journey care of GC as compensation

Keep up the good work GC

 

[BOSCH]

I totally agree with you there. I've used GC many times now, including back on Easter Sunday when the service from KGX broke down at Newark, leaving us stuck in the freezing cold!

Even though it's not the staff's fault when there's issues like that, they genuinely seem to care about getting the passengers home, which as a passenger is much appreciated. They even had to try and keep tabs on some drunk idiot running off every 5 minutes to have a crafty cigarette, where I'd have just left the idiot there!

In return I've got a 1st class return journey care of GC as compensation

Keep up the good work GC

I was the senior conductor that night,never known a shift like it !!! Hope to see you using your 1st class ticket,if you haven't already !!

 

[185132]

I was the senior conductor that night,never known a shift like it !!! Hope to see you using your 1st class ticket,if you haven't already !!

Yeah I didn't envy you that night I have to say!!! Ah well, we got home in the end so wasn't too much of a hassle in the end.. Just next time, can you make sure it's a bit warmer outside!!!

Not used the 1st class ticket yet, got a couple of Standard Class Open Returns to use up courtesy of work first, but looking forward to using it soon

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . you have been 'done up like a kipper' so to speak.

Yeah, I wondered if he was a wind-up too, especially after :

. . . . I know a photographer who has good rates...post a picture of yourself so he can give you a quote!

. . . but I think he's just some frustrated customer who's more at home with his IT than with rail travel. Odd that he happened to have 2 pics of himself to post here but didn't have the knowledge of the challenges that face an open access rail operator (esp on the East Durham cable-salvage wast land).

More unprofessional self-importance than patience or kindness I'll guess?
Not really approp on here.
Shame that Sir C got the worst of his rant, which is prob all it was.

So will he tell us want he proposes is done about cable thefts or mechanical failure? Or perhaps he is the lucky traveller who has never had an unforeseen hold up on the road or airports (or other rail operator for that matter!) in which case he prob doesn't realise how lucky he is!

And while I'm on, why don't you send him your nice new "cat n mouse" pic Bosch? He seems to like pics!

 

[Michael Scofield]

Obviously this is a GC 'love in' so maybe I should find a site where I can discuss problems with other disgruntled passengers. I'm glad you find it amusing to have a pop at me but unlike yourselves 'BOSCH' and 'Clag' I pay good money for a poor product.

I'm not here to chat about bloody cable thefts, I wanted to know where the anonymous Grand Central 'Management' are whilst their trains are failing left right and centre. I refer you back to 'Sir's post when he said they stopped travelling immediatly after the price hike...nuff said really.

In keeping with Grand Centrals 3 month history of running trains, they have copped out of explaining themselves either through the media, over the phone or by email to their customer service department. At least they're consistent 3 months on.

 

[1D53]

In fairness how often do you see Vernon Barker or Alison Forster or any other TOC manager out on trains??

 

[185132]

Obviously this is a GC 'love in' so maybe I should find a site where I can discuss problems with other disgruntled passengers. I'm glad you find it amusing to have a pop at me but unlike yourselves 'BOSCH' and 'Clag' I pay good money for a poor product.

I pay the same money as you to travel on GC. What's the "poor product" exactly? Sure, they've had some problems with cancelled services etc, but so have NXEC - IIRC there was a broken down Class 91 somewhere a few weeks back when I travelled southwards on GC which clogged up the ECML, so it's not just GC who have delays and cancellations.

In keeping with Grand Centrals 3 month history of running trains, they have copped out of explaining themselves either through the media, over the phone or by email to their customer service department. At least they're consistent 3 months on.

Try writing them a letter - I did and got a response within a few days.

 

[theblackwatch]

In fairness how often do you see Vernon Barker or Alison Forster or any other TOC manager out on trains??

Presumably Mr Scofield also expects to bump into David Franks regularly if he travels via National Express East Coast. Or if he doesn't, or phones NXEC and doesn't get to speak to him personally, he thinks that Mr Franks too is 'anonymous'.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

are they too cowardly to face the paying passenger and explain the reasons for hiking up prices whilst downgrading service?

. . . and . . .

I pay good money for a poor product.

Tell me if I'm missing something but there seems to be a very clear distinction in my mind between providing "a product" (or service) and an associated service over which the provider of the main product has no jurisdiction.
Its like blaming the messenger for the message; or blaming the grocer for the famine!
I'm pleased to say that GC's service has been great for me, but I wouldn't blame them for the infrastructure (and the long stories about over-capacity routes and underinvestment compared to road & air). And I can't see that the price gives me any more leverage on their responsibility. With a walk up price of £250 return Newcastle-London (on NXNE) I still can't REALLY complain to the TOC if we're late on account of track, signalling, fatality or
theft probs. But I WOULD have a go at my MP about the government's poor support for rail.
I'd maybe complain about GC if the service which they ARE in control of was poor (which it isn't). So Mr S, are you so sure you've got the right target?

 

[Michael Scofield]

Yes Dave I have the right target. I'm angry and frustrated that I have had to pay extra money to sit in cold carriages whilst being delayed or having to get off at Retford. I would politely suggest that the gentlemen who work for GC on this forum refrain from any more clever remarks about myself unless they're happy to use their real names to identify themselves.

As for Managers of other companies, I would imagine if their service was constantly failing or not performing they would be more 'hands on' and given their staff some much needed support on board the train or at least via the media outlets.

The silence is deafening... Good Night

 

[theblackwatch]

If you're so angry and frustrated (as you put it), have you considered using another operator, such as NXEC? If you do, I should warn you that if you get delayed and reach York after your last train has gone, you may find that, despite the guard advising you to see the station staff about alternative transport, that (1) the Information kiosk has shut, (20 the station reception has shut, (3) the ticket office has shut, and (4) the platform staff are nowehere to be seen and take several minutes to locate!

 

[Michael Scofield]

I have reluctantly had to switch Operator until/if ever GC gets it's act together and improves performance and reliability. I can't even work on the move due to the Wi-Fi being over 2 months delayed, I appreciate now, that this isn't the place to 'sound off' seeing as you are all well established 'cyber-pals' but looking at it objectively, you must agree that hiking fares up whilst reneging on promises (Wi-Fi, Restaurant Car and even the basic necessity of heating) is rank bad management and a PR disaster.

 

[Metroland]

With respect, the appropriate way to deal with complaints is to write to the Train operating company, in this case Grand Central, and should the reply not be satisfactory approach Passenger Focus.

From what I can gather Grand Central would probably be first to admit their service has been less that satisfactory, unfortunately it appears there are some reliably problems with the rolling stock, which may or may not be outside the companies control and cable thefts.

Clearly, as a fare paying passenger you expect and quite rightly deserve good service, but complex technical and operational problems are best dealt with through the appropriate channels rather than hounding staff for the phone numbers of managers who are more than likely well aware of the problems and would like to put them right even more than yourself!

My advice is to contact Passenger focus and let them take up your case

http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/

 

[Michael Scofield]

Thank-You Metroland. A voice of reason amongst the cocky comments. I will contact Passenger Focus for their observations, I just wish someone at GC would have the courtesy to 'grasp the nettle' and keep us in the loop. I have tried emailing for some time but after receiving a relpy to my 3rd email asking for their comments re. the missing amenities I mentioned above I got what seemed to be an automated response thanking me for my 'continued support'! Customer Relations not a strong point with this company..

 

[Donny Dave]

The "hiking" of the fares was announced long before GC started running, and even then, it isn't the fault of GC that they have had to go up.

NXEC, have got ATOC to insist the GC charge the supplement, because NXEC don't like the fact that the 0646 ex SUN is the first train to arrive in the capital where BVRs are allowed.

The few times I have travelled on GC, there hasn't been a problem with the heating, although to be fair, it is only 3 or 4 trips I've had with them.

Also, having the management out for the first few months to talk to passengers and get feedback on how to improve the services is a good move, no matter how you go about it. I don't see managers out on Northern, NXEC or TPE services. Have you thought, they could be working on the feedback they have recieved and are planning something?

I can't defend the delays very well however, as even I can't see a way to stop the locals from stealing the copper signalling wire along the coast between Sunderland and Eaglescliff, but the reliability problems are mostly not the fault of GC.

Oh, and before you ask, I don't work for GC, I'm not connected to them in anyway, I'm just a rail enthusiast who happens to live near to where they run.

 

[Michael Scofield]

I have learned more from your post David than I have in over 3 months from the Grand Central PR machine. You see, if they explained to passengers about the reasons behind the price increase maybe people like myself would be more sympathetic, to have it announced matter of factly over the intercom is not the best way of going about things.

Believe me, the heating is a problem although fingers crossed it may be more naturally warm on board due to the Spring time although no doubt the reverse will happen in Summer and it will be stifling hot with no A/C.

I know a few people 'in the industry' who have remarked about how there is no dynamism or 'get up and go' from the management and that there are murmurings of staff unrest although I'm sure our 2 friends on here will put me in my place regarding that. I hope I'm wrong because I was initially impressed with the vision and determination shown to see off GNER and to launch the service, I just hope they don't think the job is done now as the hard work starts here.

I seem to recall the television documentary in November (I think) and one of the two chaps who featured heavily over the hour virtually closed the programme by saying he won't have the same enthusiasm once they are up and running as it was all about the setting up of the company..

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

How often do you see a NatEx HST running with one PC shut down? I'd hazard a guess it's a fairly regular occurance, but do they get the same hammering we do?

 

[yorkie]

..... With a walk up price of £250 return Newcastle-London (on NXNE) ..

I appreciate the point you're making but can everyone please not use Standard Open fares to compare with GC for fares to London. GC do not operate any trains that arrive at KGX before business savers become valid so the comparison is not valid. The equivalent fare, set by NXEC, for NCL-KGX is £154.50 or £101.95 with a railcard.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The "hiking" of the fares was announced long before GC started running, and even then, it isn't the fault of GC that they have had to go up.

I'm not sure about this. In any case it could have been handled a lot better, and the supplement is probably unlawful (it has been proven to be unlawful for airlines).

NXEC, have got ATOC to insist the GC charge the supplement, because NXEC don't like the fact that the 0646 ex SUN is the first train to arrive in the capital where BVRs are allowed.

I find this very difficult to believe, but I trust the people who have told us this. If it's not true then someone very high-up is making it up. If it is true then ATOC/NXEC are bullies. It all seems very odd.

The few times I have travelled on GC, there hasn't been a problem with the heating, although to be fair, it is only 3 or 4 trips I've had with them.

I've found the odd coach has a problem, in which case people are encouraged to switch to another coach. I've never known a situation where people were forced to remain in a cold coach! I'm sure if standard was very full then they'd even move people to FC to get into a warmer coach.

Also, having the management out for the first few months to talk to passengers and get feedback on how to improve the services is a good move, no matter how you go about it. I don't see managers out on Northern, NXEC or TPE services. Have you thought, they could be working on the feedback they have recieved and are planning something?

Very true.

I can't defend the delays very well however, as even I can't see a way to stop the locals from stealing the copper signalling wire along the coast between Sunderland and Eaglescliff, but the reliability problems are mostly not the fault of GC.

Absolutely right!

Oh, and before you ask, I don't work for GC, I'm not connected to them in anyway, I'm just a rail enthusiast who happens to live near to where they run.

Same here, and I think that GC are doing a fantastic job (apart from the ticket pricing policy, which I think is a case of the people who set the fares being a bit naïve rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead people)

 

[mealybar]

Nationalrail.co.uk reporting broken down trains at Barnett and Biggleswade, is one of them the missing GC 16:50 LKK?

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

'Fraid so:cry: Not sure what happened exactly, but driver reported max of 45mph before failing completely. I think it was 068 that was involved, 123 was also there but shut down (still) from the problem the other day.
We had 084 and 067 on the lodge last night and they were running OK when I left them earlier!
I believe that they did a set change at York, with the good set (with 67 and 84 coming back to Sun to run the 1730) and the other one heading back to KX...
(I think Ive got the PC numbers right! we def had 67 and Im sure we had 84 too!! although it could be the other way round, with 84 failing and 68 on the good set)

 

[devon_metro]

Oh dear

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

yup. I think the swap over at York was so that the set would be at Heaton overnight for them to work on it... Shame they took the buffers off the coaches really, 2x 67 and away we could go! (they are only blanked off, so in theory they could be bolted back on... If they could get hold of any that is!)

 

[1D53]

Or leave the powers cars on 67+43+Carriages+43+67!

 

[yorkie]

Has GC caused all the chaos this evening? I am not so sure, as trains ahead of the GC were badly delayed due to various reasons including "an obstruction on the line" and "an operating incident" ?? The Chieftain waited 25 mins at York, for example, and other trains were badly delayed in the Newark area.

So could be two problems?

Also, why so much delay if the problem occured near Biggleswade - there's 2 tracks in each direction!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

gen:

43123 has failed up front apparently, terminated at York, onward HST set with 083 and something else to sunderland dep 14:10

 

[Jordy]

More fun and games today;

1N26 KGX - SUN first terminated at YRK at 1323 with 43123(dead) and 43068, but then a set swap took place and 1N26 continued North with the stock off 1A62 (43084 + 43067 SUN - KGX as far as YRK) - 1A62 then continued south with dead 43123 and 43068 off the terminated 1N26, this then went on to fail at Biggleswade!

so...

HT01 43123(Dead) + 43068
1A60 0646 SUN - KGX throughout
1N26 1127 KGX - SUN terminated YRK
1A62 1230 SUN - KGX from YRK

HT01 then failed at Biggleswade working 1A62

HT02 43084 + 43067
1N25 0804 KGX - SUN throughout
1A62 1230 SUN - KGX terminated YRK
1N26 1127 KGX - SUN from YRK
1A63 1730 SUN - KGX throughout

1N28 1650 KGX - SUN cancelled throughout

Jordy

 

[First ScotRail]

You gotta love NX's comment on their site:

National Express services have been disrupted southbound at Biggleswade by the failure of a Grand Central service in the area.

Shifting the blame...no!

 

[theblackwatch]

Do any of the GC guys have MPC figures for their power cars? It most be extremely low when compared with the other TOCs power cars which were published in Modern Railways.