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Grand Central Discussion

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Sir_Clagalot

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Failed on the crossover UF-US... Cant comment on the other problems before 068 gave up the ghost!!

Hmm, like NatEx havent caused us enough problems with getting tangled up in the knitting...
 
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DaveNewcastle

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With apologies to Oscar Wilde:
To lose one power car may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.
And three is suspicious.

So why would one of these engines throw a rod? And what's the interval between oil changes?
A blocked filter would show a warning. So would overheating of the case. Worn shells would have been spotted & changed during re-furb. So should worn bores or rings but they would be consistent with the excessive exhaust clag from 123. And they'd get worse quickly.
So that'll be the end for that engine. Or there plenty spare Valentia's available for exchange? Hmmm.
 

diligentdave

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Being involved with GC from the start (I don't work for them btw) I know that all the power car engines were completely stripped down to the last nut and bolt, refurbished and then put back together again.
After 3-4 months of hammering these engines it obvious that "running in" faults have now occurred.
Although the pc's are maintained according to tech documentation, the work involved when faults occur goes above and beyond the time limits available to the maintainer every day, so cancellations will occur from time to time.
The coaches have recieved the same treatment, being as they were sat in a field for X amount of time, and being a modification to the existing setup are also bound to develop problems after a while.
Whilst every endeavour is done to rectify these problems (from basic running maintenance to calling in the overhauling companies to repair faults) its the time required to do this that gives GC a bad name when services don't run.

Listening to what Mr S has been saying, you cannot blame everyday GC staff for sticking to their guns.
I know the management team, and I know that the chairman and MD meet the train EVERY day at York.
I travel every day on GC (even before regular passenger service started), even with the family when going somewhere, and despite the train failing at Grantham when they travelled, whenever there is a delay the staff from the cleaner to the driver have been curteous,polite,helpful and informative even in the face of extreme adversity.

I'm never one to rant,I've been travelling by train since I left school some 20 years ago and have faced every concievable type of delay and problem going, and when it comes to staff helpfulness, this lot go above and beyond compared to most.

So what say people give them a break?

Its not easy running trains, and will be good to see what problems Wrexham & Shropshire incur when they get started.
 

1D53

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Wrexham are gonna have it easy though. If they break a 67 they can easily borrow another!
 

DaveNewcastle

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So what say people give them a break?

Its not easy running trains,

Oh dear - I apologise if I seemed to be critical of GC. On the contrary!! I've been a supporter - both in principle and in practice (and it pleases me greatly to see their HSTs on the ECML alongside the incumbent TOCs!).
Can't agree more about the helpful, friendly and enthusiastic staff, too.

After 3-4 months of hammering these engines it obvious that "running in" faults have now occurred.
Although the pc's are maintained according to tech documentation, the work involved when faults occur goes above and beyond the time limits available to the maintainer every day, so cancellations will occur from time to time.

My posting here WAS trying to raise questions though, and was wanting to find where the responsibilities for mechanical reliability lie, and was raising the serious question of more sinister causes of multiple serious failures. After all, throwing a piston in one of these engines is fatal, and if that IS what happened, the folks at GC wanting to know the causes just as much as us!

I think these are reasonable questions given the number of failures - but they are questions, not criticisms! (and of course, I hope I'm wrong, and its all just coincidence and routine "running in").
 

Donny Dave

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Questions have to asked about 43123 though. IIRC, it hasn't been in service with GC that long, so to suffer a major failure nearly straight away begs the question ....

How extensive was the work carried out by DML?
 

yorkie

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I have been informed that a Cross Country power car ( 43166 ) is on today's 17:30 SUN-KGX, which is running approx 80 minutes late.

This will form the 08:55 KGX-SUN tomorrow.

ta momentum aka '43206' and also to '43021'
 

1D53

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I have been informed that a Cross Country power car is on today's 17:30 SUN-KGX, which is running approx 80 minutes late.

This will form the 08:55 SUN-KGX tomorrow.
0855 KGX - SUN surely?
 

Jordy

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I have been informed that a Cross Country power car is on today's 17:30 SUN-KGX, which is running approx 80 minutes late.

This will form the 08:55 SUN-KGX tomorrow.

Some sensible thinking! Excellent
 

Jordy

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43178 has been in service with NXEC for a few days now, and the other XC power cars have been out on test!
 

DaveNewcastle

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Questions have to asked about 43123 though. IIRC, it hasn't been in service with GC that long
Yes. As mentioned (above) when 123 began in service for GC only a few days ago, there was so much partially-burned oil in the exhaust that it was not possible to correctly identify it (on account of the huge clouds of clag). Quite a spectacle, but also a diagnostic pointer to engine damage (however caused) or a re-assembly error. Also implying an accelerated loss of lube which would require correspondingly accelerated topping up & oil changes.
(IIRC GC's prev PC failure was also a lube issue, a mistake during routine maintenance, presumably).
Teething?
Questions Questions.
 

BOSCH

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Hellfire! Wish they'd done it a few days earlier when I was still on my rover!

I should be front end in it at some point on monday to get some more hours under my belt before my driving course starts,;)
 

1D53

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Sounds like too good an opportunity to miss out on!
 

paul1609

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With apologies to Oscar Wilde:
To lose one power car may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.
And three is suspicious.

So why would one of these engines throw a rod? And what's the interval between oil changes?
A blocked filter would show a warning. So would overheating of the case. Worn shells would have been spotted & changed during re-furb. So should worn bores or rings but they would be consistent with the excessive exhaust clag from 123. And they'd get worse quickly.
So that'll be the end for that engine. Or there plenty spare Valentia's available for exchange? Hmmm.[/QUOTE

One of the well known faults with the marine version of the Valenta is piston damage.
It generally results from piston ring failure. the piston ring failure occurs because a step gets worn in the top of the engine liner for about 120 degrees on the side furthest away from crankshaft. On board a ship we normlly notice that the crankcase depresssion has gone high and stop the engine before catestrophic damage is caused but we still have to change the piston, rings and liner. In a couple of cases the symptoms have been missed and we have suffered similar damage to GC.
In our case the damage is usually attributed to long periods of low power running of the engines.
It would be unusual for piston failure to cause the engine block to be scrapped. Usually it would be a case of just putting as new liner in. (Weve change 4 piston and liners since leaving the UK). If damage to the e bore (outside of the liner) is caused it is usually possible to weld repair it and remachine the e bore.
 

yorkie

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The 0855 has failed.

Left KGX 0859, passed FPK 0937 and as at 0950 it hasn't reported at PBR.
 

1D53

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Oh great. I'm not going to be happy getting up early on my oneday weekend getting rained on and travelling to York to meet a failure. Oh well, thats life!
 

yorkie

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Oh great. I'm not going to be happy getting up early on my oneday weekend getting rained on and travelling to York to meet a failure. Oh well, thats life!
There's not much chance of meeting the failure - it's been officially cancelled.
 

yorkie

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So it has - thats rare!
Indeed it's very rare for trains to be officially cancelled and show on LDB as cancelled, they usually just leave it as "no report" to leave us all guessing what's going on :roll:

It left KGX with only one power car (166 presumably) but that also failed :sad:
 

Metroland

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These failures must be getting embarrassing for Grand Central, it's a pity the other lot are using all the 67s for their services. These HSTs look like a pile of junk.
 

1D53

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Rumour amongst York staff seemed to be failure of leading powercar. Which one that makes it I don't know. A lot of unhappy passengers at York, I've decided on a move to Hull instead.
 

class 313

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Rumour amongst York staff seemed to be failure of leading powercar. Which one that makes it I don't know. A lot of unhappy passengers at York, I've decided on a move to Hull instead.

166. A shame the beast hasn't been treated well since it left MML.

All these failures, questions need to be asked. This isn't right. Is it?

Constant Fire bells on 43166 apparently. 166 is at the London End. Have we got the 'pup' of the XC fleet I wonder...?

Was a fine runner under MML.
 

theblackwatch

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Indeed it's very rare for trains to be officially cancelled and show on LDB as cancelled, they usually just leave it as "no report" to leave us all guessing what's going on :roll:

With Grand Central, you don't really need to guess - it's a pretty good bet that the train has failed or been cancelled!
 

voyagerdude220

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I apologise if members don't see this as tongue-in-cheek, but i just can't help but think that GC's slogan of "The train you've been waiting for" can't get any more ironic, after all of the initial delays actually starting the services, but now, if your waiting for a GC HST at an unstaffed station, e.g. Northallerton, you really will be waiting a while if it has just failed south of York....
 

Sir_Clagalot

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Er, last time I checked Northallerton was staffed!! Only Eaglescliffe is unstaffed, but it does have PA from Sunderland...
Yes, numbers have dwindled, but they do when we have 'periods of unreliability', then they pick up again.
 
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