Grand Central Discussion

[voyagerdude220]

oops, apologies Sir_Clagalot, but i'm sure you can see the point i was trying to make.

 

[yorkie]

"... at the moment the problem is whether anyone would describe GC as a "going concern"...! (certainly many of its power cars aren't going and I'd be concerned at how fast the company funding is going out of the bank in compensation payments!) "

Very worrying stuff. Tony Miles is a very well respected journalist, and someone all TOCs should try to get 'on side'. The fact GC have not done so should be a concern in itself.

The serious concerns about GC's supplements remain, and I believe they are unlawful and misleading. This is interesting reading from a while back on wnxx, as I am not the only person to have these views by any means.

The management of GC will hopefully sort things out (or be replaced if they can't) before it's too late, because the service provided by the staff (when the trains run) is superb, and they deserve better.

 

[Snapper]

More problems this morning. the 0855 KX - Sunderland with 43080 and hire-in 43166 failed on leaving KX. Train was cancelled at Finsbury Park and limped back to the 'Cross where 43166 received attention. It was still shut down when I saw it earlier:

http://paulbigland.fotopic.net/p49683511.html

http://paulbigland.fotopic.net/p49683514.html

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Just spent nearly three hours sitting in Burger King at Sunderland station with the catering crew waiting instruction. Finally got told just before 4pm to stand down!

 

[yorkie]

About these supplements...

I've heard reports that only one senior conductor charges the supplement, and that all the others have decided not to. Apparently they have been told my management it is 'at their discretion' and most feel it is unfair on passengers (good on them I say!)

I heard this from a regular passenger, not from a staff member, but I have good reason to believe there is at least some truth in this situation being the case.

I'm also pretty confident that the "ATOC made us" excuse isn't real, because Hull Trains are selling tickets at £29 single for one of their peak trains that is barred to holders of Savers. So the idea that ATOC can say "£39 is too cheap" is nonsense.

 

[adambro]

Management leaving the decision of charging the supplement to train staff would really suggest that it is something that has been forced upon GC rather than something they've chosen to do.

 

[devon_metro]

Er, last time I checked Northallerton was staffed!! Only Eaglescliffe is unstaffed, but it does have PA from Sunderland...
Yes, numbers have dwindled, but they do when we have 'periods of unreliability', then they pick up again. Todays problems are being caused by the XC Power Car... (and not one of ours for a change!)

But if your PCs were working ...

Anyhow - Heaton ( I think?) Must be pretty cheesed off with the constant failings. I'd love to see some passenger numbers too!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

2025 YRK-SUN should be running!

 

[yorkie]

But if your PCs were working ...

Anyhow - Heaton ( I think?) Must be pretty cheesed off with the constant failings. I'd love to see some passenger numbers too!

I'll get some pax numbers next time I travel, but it really is a case of busy at peak times and quiet off-peak.

The lack of cheap AP tickets mean that off-peak trains are not being filled.

 

[devon_metro]

Quite understandably!

Perhaps:

Grand Central Open Return 1032 and 1652 arr/dep
Grand Central Cheap D Return Valid on all others (perhaps look at running an evening service (1955 KGX-SUN or something)

 

[djw1981]

2 seniors on spare?

 

[yorkie]

Well, to give GC credit, they never cancel a train due to being short staffed, unlike many other TOCs!

The worst you get is a closed buffet and I've only ever known that once out of several trips (virtually all my trips have been north of York and I was told the buffet was going to open south of York on the occasion I found it closed).

On the subject of the 2025, LDB has no idea about this train as it just says it was cancelled from King's Cross and shows as "No report" from York onwards. But NXEC's site says it is expected to be 43 mins down and depart at 2106.

NXEC's site often shows charters too (e.g. the Deltic from Edinburgh was show throughout the route as a charter train to Liverpool), sadly LDB's doesn't.

 

[37402]

I'll get some pax numbers next time I travel, but it really is a case of busy at peak times and quiet off-peak.

The one saturday I have travelled with them, I was the only person on the train travelling to Sunderland and North of York, the entire train of passengers fitted into just one FO!

 

[mealybar]

I travelled GC just after Christmas and it was very quiet - but to be expected with little or no publicity to launch. I hopped on the Sunday night from LKX mid January and there was a marked improvment but still quiet. Then did a return on the Sunday AM back Wed 11.27 a week or so ago and on both it was reasonably busy, even waiting at Hartlepool on Sunday morning there were lots more than I expected.

Let's face it though they're not going to be as packed as a NXEC just due to the absence of AP tickets - something especially highlighted north of York.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Busy at Peak and quiet off peak can probably apply to a lot of services in and out of the capital and other major cities...

 

[class 313]

Busy at Peak and quiet off peak can probably apply to a lot of services in and out of the capital and other major cities...

FCCTL is busy most times. Off peak or not. For example, last Sunday... Only just got a seat on a 8 car service.

 

[momentum]

I have been informed that a Cross Country power car ( 43166 ) is on today's 17:30 SUN-KGX, which is running approx 80 minutes late.

This will form the 08:55 KGX-SUN tomorrow.

Yorkie, no offence, but thanks should go to Momentum and to somebody who is not yet a member of this forum, for the power car ID.

Aka 43206 from another forum.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
43206
Fitter


Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 460
Location: Rotherham South Yorkshire
43080 AND 43166 SAID TO BE ON THIS TRAIN.

THANKS 43021 Cool
_________________
I drink my wine at One Hundred and Twenty Five miles an hour,
as the Valentas scream on full power,
as the towns go flashing by, and the sun shines in the sky,
come aboard if you've got what it takes, but be warned this Hst, got no brakes.

 

[Jordy]

I shall credit the gen now seeing as Yorkie doesnt seem to be around

Seems to be working today! All services have run so far, although 1A62 is caught up in signalling problems (due to a lightning strike near Stevenage)

 

[momentum]

pressume on first train from sunderland this morning?

 

[Jordy]

FCCTL is busy most times. Off peak or not. For example, last Sunday... Only just got a seat on a 8 car service.

FCCTL isn't the perfect example to every single railway comparison in the country you know

 

[devon_metro]

Quite so. FCCTL is a commuter route. GC on the other hand are a long distance operator who have expensive fares for a day out in London compared to NXEC AP!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

We were also caught up in the usual problems at Hartlepool, so we were running late anyway! I just want a shift to go to time for once!!

 

[Mojo]

I don't know about the East Coast, but certaintly on the XC routes to the South West of Birmingham and Great Western routes to/from London Sunday afternoons/evenings are the busiest times of the week. ISTR also a few trips on MML (as was) last summer which had several people standing.

This helps many local services, which might extend to the Thameslink route. Certaintly lots of the campaigning we did for a Sunday service on a local line round here was based on the fact that large numbers of people drive to Temple Meads or Parkway for long distance & regional trains.

 

[theblackwatch]

Going back to the subject of fares, when was the NXEC only Business Saver from York to KX at £90 introduced? I'd not heard of it until today (I thought my work colleague was talking rubbish!) - a result of the competition from Grand Central?

 

[class 313]

FCCTL isn't the perfect example to every single railway comparison in the country you know

I know I know. But I was just saying how FCC can be and is busy on both sides.

 

[yorkie]

Going back to the subject of fares, when was the NXEC only Business Saver from York to KX at £90 introduced? I'd not heard of it until today (I thought my work colleague was talking rubbish!) - a result of the competition from Grand Central?

Erm today probably!! It's not on thetrainline yet.

That officially makes NXEC cheaper than GC at peak time.

£90 is less than £64+£15+£15.

Given that the £64+£15+£15 fare has the flexibility of an advance purchase, I can't see anyone going for that option from York (unless they are misled).

 

[Jordy]

£64 would be a pretty attractive fare if the timings were suitable for what you needed, the quicker the supplement goes the better!

Back to the day to day running, so far everything has run today, no severe delays either, hopefully a sign of things to come

 

[yorkie]

£64 would be a pretty attractive fare if the timings were suitable for what you needed, the quicker the supplement goes the better!

It has to go now.

GC must have got a lot of revenue by virtue of the fact that the peak train to London was the first to allow BVRs. Now, almost no-one is going to purchase an "Any Permitted" BVR as the cost is far higher than the NXEC only. That means GC's entire source of revenue from BVRs is going to be decimated. With the NXEC only BVR being cheaper, and having far more flexibility, than the equivalent GC fare, I can't see anyone going for the GC fare at peak time. Off peak, people are likely to use AP tickets.

There's also a significant number of people who use combinations of tickets by splitting at Peterborough/Doncaster, and none of the revenue from those sales will go to GC.

With NXEC removing all "Any Permitted" first class fares quite some time ago, I suspect GC's predicted income must be far greater than the reality is now. The 2 FC coaches must be earning less revenue than the costs in track access charges, leases and maintenance, as the only revenue from them will be the GC-only FC fares which are very expensive.

It's not looking good

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

How come you know so much about ticketing? A lot of the talk about GC income is supposition. I cannot tell you (as I dont know) what the revenue is like. (I know I have good and bad shifts, but it depends on what runs you are working). A start of the week morning shift will have better takings than the midweek run.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Re ticket prices.
Surely its incorrect simply to compare GC & NXEC on price - the market economics must consider the SUPPLY as well as the demand, and only GC run between Sunderland, the Durham Coast and the ECML stops. In fact their entire business case is based on serving those stations which do not have an alternative direct service (or even one with convenient changes).

If there aint an alternative supply then price isn't the issue.

Similarly when I've compared GC's £69+15+15 SUN-KGX with NXEC's walk-up price of £250 NCL-KGX, I'm arguing that the comparison is valid because these are the prices that apply to the services that actually run to/from those stations. I know. I've walked up and paid up. Its a chocolate bar short of £250 on NXEC from Newcastle and its £69+supps from Sunderland - but there is not a choice. A passenger is either at Sunderland or they're at Newcastle.