Grand Central Discussion

[yorkie]

How come you know so much about ticketing? A lot of the talk about GC income is supposition. I cannot tell you (as I dont know) what the revenue is like. (I know I have good and bad shifts, but it depends on what runs you are working). A start of the week morning shift will have better takings than the midweek run.

Well, you're right - of course I don't know what GC's predicted incomes are and how much of it is based on ORCATS, or how NXEC's recent tactics are going to affect it.

Re ticket prices.
Surely its incorrect simply to compare GC & NXEC on price - the market economics must consider the SUPPLY as well as the demand, and only GC run between Sunderland, the Durham Coast and the ECML stops. In fact their entire business case is based on serving those stations which do not have an alternative direct service (or even one with convenient changes).

If there aint an alternative supply then price isn't the issue.

Hmm, interesting. If you've seen their business case then I can't dispute that as I haven't. If what you say is true (and I'm not doubting it is), GC have not budgeted for a penny of the York-London ORCATS revenue, which is interesting. Given that case, I am rather more optimistic that GC is financially secure despite NXEC's recent tactics.

NXEC were (are?) extremely concerned about the loss of the York-London revenue through ORCATS. If that money is simply a bonus to GC on top of what is already budgeted for, then GC may not be too worried about anything NXEC do.

Similarly when I've compared GC's £69+15+15 SUN-KGX with NXEC's walk-up price of £250 NCL-KGX, I'm arguing that the comparison is valid because these are the prices that apply to the services that actually run to/from those stations. I know. I've walked up and paid up. Its a chocolate bar short of £250 on NXEC from Newcastle and its £69+supps from Sunderland - but there is not a choice. A passenger is either at Sunderland or they're at Newcastle.

True, but from York a GC only is now difficult to justify, as this comparison for a peak journey to London shows:-

£94 GC Only option:
York 0822
King's Cross 1032

Only return option: 1650 from KGX.

£90 NXEC Only option:
York 0837
King's Cross 1040
also valid on later trains including 0849 etc.

Return options at 1600, 1630, 1700, 1730, 1820, 1830...

£199 SOR that is often used for comparison with GC:
Valid on all of the above, plus earlier trains into KGX.

I don't think the £199 SOR option is comparable with the GC only option; the £90 one is.

 

[Auximines]

Are GC actually charging the £15 supplement though? I've made a few trips since it was introduced and have never been charged it - isn't it now train manager's discretion?

I can see it quietly dropped now.....

 

[yorkie]

Are GC actually charging the £15 supplement though? I've made a few trips since it was introduced and have never been charged it - isn't it now train manager's discretion?

The reports I've heard are that only one guard is charging it and yes - it's at their discretion.

I can see it quietly dropped now.....

I agree.

 

[me123]

When only one guard is bothering, I don't see where the benefit lies for the company. The gain is so very little. Unless they enforce it, it's gonna go and iin the interests of the company (based on the evidence I've seen, anyway), scrapping is the best policy here.

Anyway, if it's only at the guard's discretion, I would imagine it's not necessary (ie, the company is only adding to exising profits) so I can't see it sticking.

 

[djw1981]

I fail to see how from a PR point of view the current situation can continue.

If you want to be a 'no-nonsense' 'plain speaking' operator you either need all your staff to be applying the premium, or none to do so. The current mix gives a very confused picture. Confusiuon makes people think that they will be ripped off, and will choose an alternative method.

If GC are serious about the supplement, then they should discipline the conductors who are not charging it (discipline could include a whisper in the ear). If they are not serious about charging it at the moment, they should say this, loudly and publicly.

 

[Max]

If GC are serious about the supplement, then they should discipline the conductors who are not charging it (discipline could include a whisper in the ear). If they are not serious about charging it at the moment, they should say this, loudly and publicly.

Indeed, I hardly see how it can be fair that some passengers are getting charged and not others. The fare system can't just be based on luck!

 

[Donny Dave]

As I said earlier in this thread, GNER/NXEC got ATOC to force GC to charge the supplements. Add this to the new NXEC only BVR, then it is only a cynical ploy to try and force GC out of business.

 

[theblackwatch]

True, but from York a GC only is now difficult to justify, as this comparison for a peak journey to London shows:-

£94 GC Only option:
York 0822
King's Cross 1032

Only return option: 1650 from KGX.

£90 NXEC Only option:
York 0837
King's Cross 1040
also valid on later trains including 0849 etc.

Return options at 1600, 1630, 1700, 1730, 1820, 1830...

£199 SOR that is often used for comparison with GC:
Valid on all of the above, plus earlier trains into KGX.

I don't think the £199 SOR option is comparable with the GC only option; the £90 one is.

I would agree with the above. In my work, we have people travelling to London from York regularly for meetings etc - and where possible avoid having to use SOS/SOR tickets, which in general means leaving York at 08.xx.

The choice of tickets is now:

NXEC only business saver, £90, travel on any NXEC train from the 08.37 onwards, return on any NXEC train (ie any direct service from KX-York except the 16.50)

Grand Central return, £94 (ie £64 plus 2x£15 supplement), must travel out at 08.22 back at 16.50.

Business Saver, £122.50 use on both GC and NXEC from 08.22 onwards.


Not unexpectedly, the NXEC only business saver is the favoured ticket - it offers the flexibility of not having to commit to a particular train home, which means people can travel back on one of a number of trains at a time that suits. On the other hand, the GC ticket has only one sensible return time and costs more. (That is assuming that people are charged, but employers are hardly going to base travel plans on 'you might not have to pay it'.) I would also say that the Business Saver at £122.50 (valid on both NXEC and GC, along with other TOCs) is now of little use to the majority of people - with NXEC offering such frequent services, most aren't going to pay an extra £32.20 jsut to allow travel on GC's trains as well, plus (say) Hull Trains to Doncaster for Cross Country forward.

I am sure the NXEC only Business Saver has been introduced to compete with GC - I am only aware of it having been introduced from York, it doesn't exist from varous other ECML stations I've checked.

 

[djw1981]

As I said earlier in this thread, GNER/NXEC got ATOC to force GC to charge the supplements. Add this to the new NXEC only BVR, then it is only a cynical ploy to try and force GC out of business.

That point has been refuted though. Restatement does not make it fact.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On the other hand, the GC ticket has only one sensible return time and costs more. (That is assuming that people are charged, but employers are hardly going to base travel plans on 'you might not have to pay it'.)

Equally, many tickets are booked centrally by a company using an agency, and as such they would expect any supplement to be included in the ticket price. They may not refund their staff for a '£15 supplement paid on the train'.

 

[martyn29]

any news on the failed hst?

 

[BOSCH]

any news on the failed hst?

from when ??

 

[martyn29]

43065 failed a few weeks ago I beleive..

 

[Jordy]

AFAIK its still at Crewe being repaired, i'm sure BOSCH can confirm!

 

[Donny Dave]

That was taken to Crewe by road to have a new bogie fitted.

 

[martyn29]

That was taken to Crewe by road to have a new bogie fitted.

thanks for that

 

[BOSCH]

43065 failed a few weeks ago I beleive..

Ah,that failure ! Easter sunday it failed and as already posted,its still at crewe AFAIK,awaiting wheelset.

 

[martyn29]

Ah,that failure ! Easter sunday it failed and as already posted,its still at crewe AFAIK,awaiting wheelset.

hope its back soon for my next York visit in 3 or 4 weeks!

 

[Jordy]

The others are all operational atm

 

[BOSCH]

The others are all operational atm

43166 reported as heading back north to craigentinny this afternoon hauled by cl67,oh well,it was good while it lasted !!

 

[djw1981]

http://ruston165.fotopic.net/p49773762.html - rather grubby!

 

[Jordy]

Oh dear, the poor thing seems to have exploded

 

[Danny Dire]

The whole supplement issue has been addressed and an announcement will be made shortly alongside the new GC marketing policy.
I've no idea about the comments regarding one guard charging it and others not, but believe discretion is allowed to be used during times of disruption. All GC guards were trained to make there own decisions when things go awry and not rely on the control centre to make choices for them. The management have always stressed that they will back the frontline staff on their decisions and if the wrong choice was made, a discussion would take place to highlight the error and ensure it would not happen in the future. In no way would it be a disiplinary matter as this would be counter productive.

Anyway, roll on summer, it's mid April and i'm still having to wear jumpers !

 

[Techniquest]

Don't count on the summer being much better!

It's ridiculous that it's this cold in mid-April though. Time to pull the winter coat back out of storage!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

summer? what's one of those?

 

[Danny Dire]

Apart from a few nice days last year, which happily happened during Royal Ascot, Goodwood & York Ebor meeting, we didn't really have one.
Can anyone here remember 1976 ? Now that WAS a summer ! Didn't rain for months !
can we have one of those please ? But without the critical rail tempreture speed restrictions !

 

[momentum]

Don't count on the summer being much better!

It's ridiculous that it's this cold in mid-April though. Time to pull the winter coat back out of storage!

Started snowing here in Rotherham at 0130hrs this morning,

which was nice.

 

[djw1981]

Apart from a few nice days last year, which happily happened during Royal Ascot, Goodwood & York Ebor meeting, we didn't really have one.
Can anyone here remember 1976 ? Now that WAS a summer ! Didn't rain for months !
can we have one of those please ? But without the critical rail tempreture speed restrictions !

It did snow in early June 1976, and never got really hot until mid June....then stayed hot for 3 months. The spring was cold and wet.

 

[Danny Dire]

It did snow in early June 1976, and never got really hot until mid June....then stayed hot for 3 months. The spring was cold and wet.

Seem to only remember the good sunshine days of that year, must be the memory getting hazy as i get senile !

 

[djw1981]

We all try to rememebr only the sunshiny halcyon days of yore.... I maintain days were longer, warmer, sunnier and such like when i were a kid....

 

[adambro]

Off topic alert!