Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance?

[Bletchleyite]

You're not going to change your mind given your very consistent postings, but you're clearly way out of touch with current design trends (and design in general if you're convinced it's 'basically the same' as it was in the 70s). There is a "mid-century" feel to it, but with a contemporary twist. Reminiscent of the recent updates to the corporate typefaces of Cathay Pacific and Apple, for example. Clean, sober, and dignified. Lovely stuff.

My only criticism is that the size of the text is too big for the sign that it is on.

It isn't the font I am going after, it is the drab plain white signage. White on blue is my favourite, but whatever you do with it it needs a splash of GBR's signature colours, whatever they may be.

 

[Rhydgaled]

It isn't the font I am going after, it is the drab plain white signage. White on blue is my favourite, but whatever you do with it it needs a splash of GBR's signature colours, whatever they may be.

I would make the text dark green or navy blue on a white background with a solid band in the same colour as the text along the bottom edge of the sign, just to make it slightly less plain than black-on-white.

The text/band colour could have regional variation (eg. navy blue for Scotland, dark green for western and wales, dark red for WCML etc.), and I would leave the odd non-standard station (like Birmingham Moor Street retaining it's GWR colours and white-on-black signs).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would make the text dark green or navy blue on a white background with a solid band in the same colour as the text along the bottom edge of the sign, just to make it slightly less plain than black-on-white.

The text/band colour could have regional variation (eg. navy blue for Scotland, dark green for western and wales, dark red for WCML etc.), and I would leave the odd non-standard station (like Birmingham Moor Street retaining it's GWR colours and white-on-black signs).

Much as I don't love the whole package, I think the LNR signs are an example of a nice use of black on white with some colour. And to be fair a nice modern font (though now I've seen that Rail Alphabet 2 doesn't look at all like the original I don't mind it):

LNR style signage at Bricket Wood, by Bricket Wood station trust

 

[Cdd89]

The one thing I hope it doesn’t mean is that we lose the individual station logos for the London Terminals (and other major stations around the country). Those are a really nice bit of branding/personality and I love seeing them.

 

[Wivenswold]

Am I the only one on tenterhooks wondering what livery the DfT is about to bestow on the nation's trains?

We know the BR Logo is back; good so far.
We know ticketing will be easier or something; sounds okay.
We know local brandings will be encouraged; excellent.
We've heard rumours that something like the old regions will happen; good I guess.
We don't know what shade of blue (it's got to be hasn't it?) will go with something whiteish and maybe some red somewhere when the livery is rolled out.

So there, I'm excited, or dreading it. Obviously anyone under embargo can please sit this out, what livery do you want on our trains and what do you expect it'll look like?

I'm going for BR Blue with a lighter shade of grey than the old days for the window ribbon, deep red doors, I think it will be a mess.

 

[Domh245]

Based on the station branding, and the DfT's previous attempts at Livery design [1] [2], I'd expect "utterly utterly drab". However, given the current government, there's also a decent chance of garishly white blue and red.

Either way, I'm not expecting to be impressed

 

[WAO]

Not my preference (I'd like L&Y!) but I'd guess dark and light grey coaches, being the current fashion, with the red double arrow and a small TOC branding alongside. Oh, and yellow striped doors, in case you weren't sure where to board!

WAO

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The BR sign installed at almost all stations nationwide is very very much red, so I’m not sure where all of the obsession with blue has come from

 

[Wivenswold]

Like the two-tone grey idea. Red line for Eastern Region, Dark Green for Western, Hacienda club tribute yellow/black stripes for London Midland (yes, I know VT did it as well) and slightly less dark green for Southern (who no doubt completely renumber their rolling stock every year thereafter). I'm getting back in the BR spirit.

 

[irish_rail]

Like the two-tone grey idea. Red line for Eastern Region, Dark Green for Western, Hacienda club tribute yellow/black stripes for London Midland (yes, I know VT did it as well) and slightly less dark green for Southern (who no doubt completely renumber their rolling stock every year thereafter). I'm getting back in the BR spirit.

Please don't condemn the Western to an eternity of dark green. Looks positively awful on anything other than the sunniest of days.....dare I say it, I think I'd sooner see the union flag on the side of every train!!!
On a side note would be nice for the double arrow to appear on the trains in someway even if its only small and understated. The epitome of an excellent bit of design.

 

[xotGD]

British Racing Green.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

BR Monastic Blue

Or as the government likes to use wartime language - Black

 

[Meerkat]

It would be really miserable to have a national livery again, and counter productive IMO.
Have decent liveries on trains that are going to stay where they are for years, and anything likely to transfer can be painted white with a more restrained version of the livery in vinyl.

 

[WestRiding]

Looking forward to a National Livery. It's like Toy Town Railways with some of the stupid colours, especially in London with all the different TOCs. It's about time everything was uniform. As for the colours, anything so long as it's nice neat lines.

 

[Non Multi]

Looking forward to a National Livery. It's like Toy Town Railways with some of the stupid colours, especially in London with all the different TOCs. It's about time everything was uniform. As for the colours, anything so long as it's nice neat lines.

If the corporate identity is insipid, it will be insipid everywhere.

 

[GALLANTON]

Correct me If Im wrong but the BR logo never left?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The BR sign installed at almost all stations nationwide is very very much red, so I’m not sure where all of the obsession with blue has come from

Logic would say that an operation called "Great British Railways" might well have a livery based on the colours of the Union Flag.

 

[Gareth]

Oh god, please no. You'll kick it all off again.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Logic would say that an operation called "Great British Railways" might well have a livery based on the colours of the Union Flag.

The flag has red in it, not just blue.

 

[Non Multi]

Logic would say that an operation called "Great British Railways" might well have a livery based on the colours of the Union Flag.

Not necessarily, a Union Flag inspired design could use the shapes within the flag, but not the colours.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not necessarily, a Union Flag inspired design could use the shapes within the flag, but not the colours.

But also, livery choices are not always so obvious. For example, Avanti West Coast took a minor inspiration from the Italian roots of parent company Trenitalia in their name. But they also chose not to rub the (rather distant) Italian heritage in too much. Note that their slogan isn't "travel with a bit of Italian flair"

I wonder why.

Similarly, the fact that a company is called Great British does not mean the Union J will be adorned everywhere. To many, that would be a very large cliche.

 

[Irascible]

Correct me If Im wrong but the BR logo never left?

The coming-and-going double arrow did not, it's the map/nav/other default symbol for a station. The red for signage is out of the 60s BR corporate identity manual. It's a simple, descriptive & instantly recognisable shape ( maybe not quite as universal as the LT roundel ), I suspect it's permanent.

 

[Nova1]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already (I haven't read the entire thread)

but surely keeping brand names in some places makes sense
example: West Midlands railway running railway services mostly inside the west midlands
LNER running services between London and the north east

 

[Chiltern006]

Its gonna be under these areas
North West & Central
Western & Wales
Southern (incl HS1)
Scotland
Eastern (incl LNER)

 

[HS2isgood]

Its gonna be under these areas
North West & Central
Western & Wales
Southern (incl HS1)
Scotland
Eastern (incl LNER)

I suppose XC will be considered NW&C? That division would be like half the network!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose XC will be considered NW&C? That division would be like half the network!

These seem like Network Rail (i.e. infrastructure) zones rather than operational zones. In particular, there is literally no chance that Transport for Wales' train operations would end up under a revitalised Wales and West - it would just be politically impossible.

 

[zwk500]

These seem like Network Rail (i.e. infrastructure) zones rather than operational zones. In particular, there is literally no chance that Transport for Wales' train operations would end up under a revitalised Wales and West - it would just be politically impossible.

Bang on - those 5 are in fact Network Rail's current 'Regions'. Each are split into smaller 'Routes' - https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-regions/

 

[irish_rail]

Its gonna be under these areas
North West & Central
Western & Wales
Southern (incl HS1)
Scotland
Eastern (incl LNER)

I have heard similar. Tho not convinced Wales will be included with Western and maybe a separate entity.

For me, what needs to happen is each operational area should brand its services accordingly (example given for western)
Western Intercity
Western Regional
Western Commuter

And exactly the same on each operational area. So the intercity brand for example would be seen both in Plymouth and Newcastle . And all tied together with the GBR name and hopefully double arrow logo.

 

[Meerkat]

Having national branding is a bad idea IMO - every service will be tarnished by the bad ones

 

[zwk500]

Having national branding is a bad idea IMO - every service will be tarnished by the bad ones

So we need 25,600 different liveries so that if one service is unreliable or 'bad' it won't tarnish any others? Or will you have different liveries for 'Never on time', 'you might be lucky today', 'right time every time'?