samuelmorris
Established Member
Could someone remind me of the current diagram for 720s? Is it operating today? I'm in town and it'd be nice to see them at least.
Cheers
Cheers
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-and-introduction.158396/page-27#post-4887202Could someone remind me of the current diagram for 720s? Is it operating today? I'm in town and it'd be nice to see them at least.
Cheers
It looks like it probably does 1K45 2130 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street and 5K45 2304 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria Dss this week instead of waiting at Southend Victoria.This looks like today's planned diagram (copied from another forum)
5K27 0705 Southend Victoria Dsn to Southend Victoria
1K27 0723 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
5K49 0833 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
2K49 1010 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
5V28 1124 London Liverpool Street to Ilford E.M.U.D.
with a pair of 720s operating the STP working shown starting 5K85 later.
5K85 1440 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Southend Victoria
1K85 1610 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
1K78 1725 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
1K19 1850 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
2K06 2013 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
5K16 2324 Southend Victoria to Southend Victoria Dsn
Thanks for the updatehttps://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-and-introduction.158396/page-27#post-4887202
It looks like it probably does 1K45 2130 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street and 5K45 2304 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria Dss this week instead of waiting at Southend Victoria.
Hopefully a second diagram coming in mid December. Saturday is the only 'all day' diagram - again subject to the usual availability of drivers and/or serviceable units.Many thanks, doesn't look like that'll work out for me, I spotted presumably this pairing in the depot alongside some Northern 321/322s on my way in. I'll probably wait until there's an all day diagram, but thanks anyway
I do travel to Southend frequently - so better to sit on these than clapped out and dirty (Renatus excepted) 321s'Yeah no worries, I can wait. No rush to travel on what will probably become the mainstay of this area for decades to come!
I can understand all the above, but why can't the up Southend train be routed into the up loop platform (No. 1?) instead?Definitely smoother, quieter, cleaner and brighter than a non Renatus 321. And no jerky braking either.
That run highlighted how poorly things are pathed / timetabled on a Sunday despite far fewer trains running on the network. The xx.54 from Southend has to come into Shenfield on caution signals as 1Pxx (from Norwich comes sailing through on the up main. It then crawls along on yellows until 1PXX is enough blocks ahead to see clear signals. But despite the additional stop at Romford, still manages to run into yellows again and almost come to a stand at Maryland because 1Pxx has still not cleared Stratford P9.
The 720's gain a few seconds over the 321's due to faster acceleration, but in this case it is useless because the trains are pathed too closely together, and the Shenfield to Stratford timing is pretty slack - meaning drivers often pottering along at 70mph instead of 90!
It is routed into P1 with either a red or single yellow signal at the end of the platform. Hence a slow approach and stop. And a cautious start.I can understand all the above, but why can't the up Southend train be routed into the up loop platform (No. 1?) instead?
Sometimes the platform and the Up Loop combined hold a Class 4 / 6 Freight so Platform 2 is used.I can understand all the above, but why can't the up Southend train be routed into the up loop platform (No. 1?) instead?
My best guess is that Anglia will not be changing much to do with pathing until all the old units have gone. Then they wil be able to guarantee consistent performance of all the trains - (almost) all formed of 720s and 745s.Definitely smoother, quieter, cleaner and brighter than a non Renatus 321. And no jerky braking either.
That run highlighted how poorly things are pathed / timetabled on a Sunday despite far fewer trains running on the network. The xx.54 from Southend has to come into Shenfield on caution signals as 1Pxx (from Norwich comes sailing through on the up main. It then crawls along on yellows until 1PXX is enough blocks ahead to see clear signals. But despite the additional stop at Romford, still manages to run into yellows again and almost come to a stand at Maryland because 1Pxx has still not cleared Stratford P9.
The 720's gain a few seconds over the 321's due to faster acceleration, but in this case it is useless because the trains are pathed too closely together, and the Shenfield to Stratford timing is pretty slack - meaning drivers often pottering along at 70mph instead of 90!
Well GA are currently consulting on the December 2021 timetable for the GEML and branches. https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tra...astern-mainline-dec-21-timetable-consultation but don't get too excited for all Essex stations other than Manningtree they are offering, "Average 1-minute quicker journey times throughout the day".My best guess is that Anglia will not be changing much to do with pathing until all the old units have gone. Then they wil be able to guarantee consistent performance of all the trains - (almost) all formed of 720s and 745s.
Overall very mixed impression and whilst they may be suited to high peak shorter distance use my view that they aren't well suited to longer distance use (over an hour) and that they will be a massive over provision on the branch lines (525 seats) on trains that for much of the day are rarely unlikely to convey more than 100-150 passengers.
The problem is, I'm not really convinced the effects from the pandemic on demand will last long enough until mid-life refurbishment of a new fleet. Some routes on the railway are extremely busy and had been really in dire need of extra capacity before covid hit. While the current situation will massively supress demand, even if 80% of it comes back, replacing 2+3 commuter EMUs in the form of 317s, 321s of 360s, with 2+2 express style units is still going to be a decrease in capacity even with through-gangways, especially now the whole fleet is 5-car unit pairs rather than one single unit, and you'd soon end up with people standing again, and after a few years as demand slowly increases, you'd end up with things worse than ever. I know interiors can be changed after the fact, but I'm not sure I'd consider the risk of knowingly under-specifying stock capacity in the hope that by the time a refit is due you can change it back is necessarily wise. If there were only room for more trains per hour on the route, then sure go for it, I'd much rather 2+2 with armrests etc. on my local line, but I can't honestly tell you I think it's the best idea, even if I'd much prefer to ride on it, assuming I got a seat!What is a big shame to me is that this whole COVID thing happened too late for them to change the order. I think LNR's 2+2 seated version of the same thing promises to be really, really nice (basically the same thing as a 350/1 but from another manufacturer, and adding the "IC feel" that the very long centre section gives over a 20m unit), so perhaps with commuter volumes likely to reduce a 2+2 layout with tables would have been better? Obviously too late for a contract variation, but I do wonder if LNR will consider this, or if that's also too late?
I thought the general consensus was that the seats aren't that bad?I wonder when greater anglia get enough reviews on the 720s seating if c2c will have the same or different seating after hearing the reviews on the seats
That's the point I think - will c2c follow suit with Kiel seats or use the default ironing boards.I thought the general consensus was that the seats aren't that bad?
The seats themselves are fine comfortwise for the distances most people will travel on them for but the configuration of 3+2 is inappropriate. Given the lack of doors between coaches was meant to encourage passengers to spread throughout the train, the aisles are too narrow and discourage just that. A 2+2 layout would have been far easier for walking through aisles and would have provided more standing room. The 3+2 is a major disappointment and if you ask me no UK trains with our loading gauge should have 3+2 seating. Kill it with fire is the consensus on 3+2.I thought the general consensus was that the seats aren't that bad?
But you have to remember that the 720s work on heavy commuter routes and need the seating capacity because of the amount of people they will carry.The seats themselves are fine comfortwise for the distances most people will travel on them for but the configuration of 3+2 is inappropriate. Given the lack of doors between coaches was meant to encourage passengers to spread throughout the train, the aisles are too narrow and discourage just that. A 2+2 layout would have been far easier for walking through aisles and would have provided more standing room. The 3+2 is a major disappointment and if you ask me no UK trains with our loading gauge should have 3+2 seating. Kill it with fire is the consensus on 3+2.
I'd much rather 2+2 with armrests etc. on my local line, but I can't honestly tell you I think it's the best idea, even if I'd much prefer to ride on it, assuming I got a seat!
I don't think that's been decided yet, going into the 6xx range would clash with the 10-car c2c units, supposedly 720/6, but since they've not been built yet, plenty of time to reclassify those. Now that the GA 720s are all 5-car, using a different class number as originally intended would make more sense. Logic would suggest going perhaps with 721 instead, but this is privatisation era TOPS, so that's the least likely scenario!I have on my personal listings numbers 720101 to 720122. But I believe these have been superseded by 720590 to 720633?
Thanks for that. Even less clear than I thoughtI don't think that's been decided yet, going into the 6xx range would clash with the 10-car c2c units, supposedly 720/6, but since they've not been built yet, plenty of time to reclassify those. Now that the GA 720s are all 5-car, using a different class number as originally intended would make more sense. Logic would suggest going perhaps with 721 instead, but this is privatisation era TOPS, so that's the least likely scenario!
It’s been announced as 720101-144I have on my personal listings numbers 720101 to 720122. But I believe these have been superseded by 720590 to 720633?
Would you happen to have a source for that please?It’s been announced as 720101-144
Richard Clinnick (RAIL Magazine) has confirmed it.Would you happen to have a source for that please?
Several railway magazines have reported it, Today’s Railway UK is the one I sawWould you happen to have a source for that please?