GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[Kite159]

You contradict yourself, you say that a unit shouldn't be taken from Basingstoke work as it will inconvenience regular passengers, yet suggest doing exactly that from the West? I can't remember the last time that at least one Paignton-Exmouth diagram on a weekday wasn't short formed, in an area with high levels of commuters, school/college traffic and holidaymakers.

What happens for the regatta is simply the best of a bad situation, the same as what happens for every Glastonbury where most of the Pad-Cardiff services are cancelled to provide sets, this has historically happened.

A short form is better than the service getting cancelled, even if it means that some passengers will have to stand between Bristol & Bath

 

[RPI]

You just got a few extra turbos, nicking 1 or 2 won't hurt

We have 4 turbo diagrams on the triangle of doom, yet I can't remember the last time all 4 were actually covered on a weekday.

The issues with even one shortformed Paignton diagram causes people to be left behind on some trains.

A short form is better than the service getting cancelled, even if it means that some passengers will have to stand between Bristol & Bath

If a Pompey diagram is shortformed you can end up with people standing for all sorts or journeys, like Cardiff to Salisbury or similar!

 

[Jrocks]

You just got a few extra turbos, nicking 1 or 2 won't hurt


Historically GWR were able to resource the service without other cancellations.
The West already has loads of turbos, including 2x3 car 165s which are Reading based.

Surely GWR can borrow 1x 3 car for a day, without having to cancel any services?

If we break it down, we have 1 turbo at wolverton for a refresh. 1 x 166 is out for heavy maintenance. We had an issue with a set today (166) which will render it unusable for a fair while. Reading already 'borrows' a 2 car 165 every week. Reading have released 2 x 165/3 for the west yes, but that has been achieved though a tightening of diagrams in the reading area. I cant remember when we had a full set of 'normal' diagramed stock in Devon, this would only make matters worse. The leisure market has rebounded much quicker than the commuter market, this has caused extreme pressure on services in the west as we are generally a more leisure based market than the Thames valley. We also have events in the west. Over the same weekend, we have the Teignmouth airshow in which we will need to ensure our stock is formed fully especially after what the Torbay Airshow has shown us this weekend. If both Exeter and Reading wanted to borrow turbos over that weekend, we would have a chronic shortage on the Pompey routes which we all ready know are at bursting point.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If we break it down, we have 1 turbo at wolverton for a refresh. 1 x 166 is out for heavy maintenance. We had an issue with a set today (166) which will render it unusable for a fair while.

Which three are these please?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

You just got a few extra turbos, nicking 1 or 2 won't hurt


Historically GWR were able to resource the service without other cancellations.
The West already has loads of turbos, including 2x3 car 165s which are Reading based.

Surely GWR can borrow 1x 3 car for a day, without having to cancel any services?

Historically GWR had the current DMU fleet minus:

2 units on Okehampton (new service)
Enhanced frequency on the Severn Beach line
1 unit withdrawn following a crash at Salisbury

More diagrams and less fleet….

If we break it down, we have 1 turbo at wolverton for a refresh. 1 x 166 is out for heavy maintenance. We had an issue with a set today (166) which will render it unusable for a fair while. Reading already 'borrows' a 2 car 165 every week. Reading have released 2 x 165/3 for the west yes, but that has been achieved though a tightening of diagrams in the reading area. I cant remember when we had a full set of 'normal' diagramed stock in Devon, this would only make matters worse. The leisure market has rebounded much quicker than the commuter market, this has caused extreme pressure on services in the west as we are generally a more leisure based market than the Thames valley. We also have events in the west. Over the same weekend, we have the Teignmouth airshow in which we will need to ensure our stock is formed fully especially after what the Torbay Airshow has shown us this weekend. If both Exeter and Reading wanted to borrow turbos over that weekend, we would have a chronic shortage on the Pompey routes which we all ready know are at bursting point.

And 1 less class 158

 

[Jrocks]

Which three are these please?

Don't know the unit number of the one in wolverton, the move happened 1 week ago. Believe 206 is in for heavy maintenance plus something else
219 and 132 were involved in an incident earlier but believe only 219 is unusable for the moment.

 

[Ashley Hill]

In the old days they’d have hired in the Hastings set .

 

[JonathanH]

In the old days they’d have hired in the Hastings set .

When did GWR ever hire in that unit? (It isn't possible to hire in any historic traction or rolling stock now as it doesn't meet current standards.)

 

[patrick.hearn3]

Historically GWR had the current DMU fleet minus:

2 units on Okehampton (new service)
Enhanced frequency on the Severn Beach line
1 unit withdrawn following a crash at Salisbury

More diagrams and less fleet….

For balance, they've also gained one with the withdrawal of the Brighton service.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Historically GWR had the current DMU fleet minus:

2 units on Okehampton (new service)
Enhanced frequency on the Severn Beach line
1 unit withdrawn following a crash at Salisbury

More diagrams and less fleet….



And 1 less class 158

And also, the Portsmouths were ran without the double units, and were absolutely rammed for it. We need those 5 cars on that route.

 

[FGW_DID]

Reading already 'borrows' a 2 car 165 every week.

That should balance out as the ‘LTV’ 2 car unit that works the Greenford branch ends the day at Oxford, it’s next day it works up to Gloucester via Worcester SH and ends that day at SPM.
The ‘West’ 2 car works the other way and when it finishes it’s day at Oxford will end up at Reading TCD.

Which three are these please?

165133 is the current SPM unit at Wolverton.

 

[Jim]

Air show Saturday.
The seven local trains were made of 2 166s, 1 3car 165101, 3 2 x150s and 1 150/158
Trains terminating in platform 2 the passengers had to exit by the temporary exit at the south end of the platform into the car park.

The Red Arrows closed the show at 1700 finishing about 1720/25
1630 1E50 cancelled
1730 1E51 cancelled
1739 departed on time some seats to front available. Queue held in car park.
1800 1E52 cancelled
1818 left early at 1811 full and standing
1832 1E53 departed 1847 802103 9 coaches full and standing except at front in first class although two motorised wheelchairs and a buggy boarded here.
I left but still people queuing in car park
1852 left 3 late at 1855 and lost time all the way to Exeter made up 150232/158762. The 158 not a good train for crowds.
1918 on time
1928 on time

They still haven't sorted out the big gaps 1739 1811 1847 and must have thought the show ended earlier and cancelled the relief trains

One of the relief train circuits was late due to signalling problems on the Devon Banks causing them to miss a trip.
The 158 was not a good train for the crowds, but there was no 150 available, which is why it had a 158 on it. Of note of course a 2 car 158 does have more seats than a 2 car 150.

 

[REVUpminster]

Can't complain down here this week. Yesterday 4 166s and 3 pairs of 150s on Paignton-Exmouth.
Today 2 166s 1 165 and 3 pairs of 150s. We do have 158959 though as a 166 is doing Barnstaple.

Exeter seems to be only using 15 150s lately and one has failed today at Falmouth.

 

[Jrocks]

Can't complain down here this week. Yesterday 4 166s and 3 pairs of 150s on Paignton-Exmouth.
Today 2 166s 1 165 and 3 pairs of 150s. We do have 158959 though as a 166 is doing Barnstaple.

Exeter seems to be only using 15 150s lately and one has failed today at Falmouth.

Only reason the 158 is on PGN - EXM and the 166 is on Barny is 2F05 was running around 20 late. Rather than cancel and delay 2 services, they brought the 158 out to run 2z05 and the turbo covered for the barnstaple diagram

 

[Xavi]

Severe overcrowding on Devon Metro today with many services 2-car 150.

 

[REVUpminster]

Severe overcrowding on Devon Metro today with many services 2-car 150.

It is strange as the last two weeks four 166s have been operating. Only 2 today with 158762 (2 car). Problem seems to be a lack of 150s with only 14/20 operating.
The school special was only 2 car so expects phone calls/emails/letters to be flying.

 

[cactustwirly]

Severe overcrowding on Devon Metro today with many services 2-car 150.

That doesn't look that bad, not great but there's still plenty of room to board

 

[spark001uk]

That doesn't look that bad, not great but there's still plenty of room to board

I was going to say, I've been on a rover down there numerous times, travelling at all times of day and I've often had trouble getting a seat on the stoppers, whether 2 or 4 car

 

[RPI]

Today was an absolute nightmare on the Devon metro, even the "golden trains" ie the ones that are an absolute last resort to short form were shortformed! Anyone know what the issues were? I'm assuming 16x availability as there were only two down.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Today was an absolute nightmare on the Devon metro, even the "golden trains" ie the ones that are an absolute last resort to short form were shortformed! Anyone know what the issues were? I'm assuming 16x availability as there were only two down.

166s were having to cover some 158 workings on Portsmouth / Cardiff day presumably due to availability problems with 158s?

 

[Xavi]

That doesn't look that bad, not great but there's still plenty of room to board

That was before another train of passengers requiring a connection boarded.

 

[DannyMich2018]

We was in Devon last week. We had several train journeys and none were rammed. Even the 16.08 from Paignton 2 car 150 on Friday had seats until at least after Dawlish Warren. The week started off with 3 car 166s and paired 150s with hardly any single 150s. Later in week there were more single 150s but as above not busy. Probably busier now as more kids broke up last Friday. Didn't see any 2 car 165s too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

166s were having to cover some 158 workings on Portsmouth / Cardiff day presumably due to availability problems with 158s?

1430 CDF PMH was 3-166 vice 4-158 today.
1330 was 4-158 as booked.
1530 was 5-158 as booked.

 

[RPI]

We was in Devon last week. We had several train journeys and none were rammed. Even the 16.08 from Paignton 2 car 150 on Friday had seats until at least after Dawlish Warren. The week started off with 3 car 166s and paired 150s with hardly any single 150s. Later in week there were more single 150s but as above not busy. Probably busier now as more kids broke up last Friday. Didn't see any 2 car 165s too.

There are no booked 2 car 150's on any diagrams except after around 20:00 when a couple split at Exeter, the 16:08 from Paignton isn't too bad outside of school holidays until it gets to Exeter Central where it becomes the main peak time Exmouth service (17:20).

They'd be better reforming a load of 150's into 3 car sets for the "triangle of doom" (Barnstaple/Exmouth/Paignton)

 

[REVUpminster]

3 166s today. No short forms. 150248/158762 in tandem. 2T07 back to four coaches. They only short form it once.

 

[RPI]

3 166s today. No short forms. 150248/158762 in tandem. 2T07 back to four coaches. They only short form it once.

2T08 was however dead today, less than 100 on after Dawlish.

 

[RedPostJunc]

Severe overcrowding on Devon Metro today with many services 2-car 150.

This has probably been answered elsewhere, but my searches did not find the answer.

Do TOCs get penalized for running short formed trains, or only if the train is cancelled?

 

[Siemens Staines]

I think todays North Downs customers would happily accept short forms.

From GWR journeycheck page

Cancellations to services between Reading and Gatwick Airport
Due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time between Reading and Gatwick Airport fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day

Train Cancellations
05:31 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 06:58
06:50 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 08:53
07:02 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 08:34
07:20 Reading to Redhill due 08:46
08:51 Redhill to Reading due 10:45
09:01 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 10:25
09:02 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 10:18
10:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 11:51
11:01 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 12:25
12:01 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 13:25
12:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 13:51
13:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 14:51
14:01 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 15:25
15:01 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 16:25
15:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 17:03
16:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 18:02
17:20 Reading to Redhill due 18:55
18:20 Reading to Redhill due 19:53
18:59 Redhill to Reading due 20:35
19:58 Redhill to Reading due 21:29
21:34 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 23:15
23:20 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 00:44
23:33 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 01:07

You can use your GWR ticket on alternative routes:

Reading to Gatwick Airport via central London
- Great Western Railway between Reading & London Paddington
- Elizabeth line between Paddington & Farringdon
- Thameslink between Farringdon & Gatwick Airport
- London Underground between Paddington & London Terminals
- Southern between London Victoria & Gatwick Airport

Reading to Gatwick Airport via Clapham Junction
- South Western Railway between Reading & Clapham Junction
- South Western Railway between Basingstoke & Clapham Junction
- Southern between Clapham Junction & Gatwick Airport

Reading to Guildford via Basingstoke
- Great Western Railway between Reading & Basingstoke
- South Western Railway between Basingstoke & Woking
- South Western Railway between Woking & Guildford

Last Updated:14/07/2022 05:48

 

[Jim]

3 166s today. No short forms. 150248/158762 in tandem. 2T07 back to four coaches. They only short form it once.

There are several quite sensitive trains in the area iirc, was so short of units Monday one had to give sadly it seems. Infact Monday I think there was only one 4 car 150 out as a 4 car 150 AM peak.

I suspect there is an attempt not to short form the same train consecutive days if it is a busy one.

The train down from Bristol in the morning was 150 vice 166 Monday I think it as it was the only traction available at one point for it!

Although there are lots of 4/5 car Pompey turns, nearly all split at some point now and think there is only one 4/5 car out and back from SPM and that conveys sensitive trains too!

It's a shame 2+4 HST's aren't permitted to Exmouth as a last resort, but think there was issues with Topsham and Exmouth stopping that.

 

[REVUpminster]

2T07 2 cars again. 165101 down here today 111 on Wednesday.