• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

GWR Class 800

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

spark001uk

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,326
D1009 said:
But they're not entering service yet, so what is being tested?;)
Click to expand...

Why not? There's nothing stopping them being used in diesel mode at the moment, on lines it's been cleared for?

Or can they not enter passenger service at all until the electrical interference issues are sorted out?
 
Last edited:
FGW_DID

FGW_DID

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2011
Messages
2,747
Location
81E
I'm sure I've seen somewhere that EIS 1 is the Reading - Didcot test section. Can only presume that as other sections of the OLE are energised they will be EIS 2 etc etc.
 
leomartin125

leomartin125

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2015
Messages
1,032
Location
North West
D1009 said:
But they're not entering service yet, so what is being tested?;)
Click to expand...

I'm sure it's testing the features that need to be ready for EIS, whilst showing a certain someone *points to anyone who knows who it is* how the IEP will benefit the British Rail, especially with GWR being the launch customer. EIS testing will be done in diesel mode primarily, and the stops simulate real life stops it would perform on a normal Swansea or Cardiff Central train. That's my bet for what tomorrow has in store. I'll be down in Exeter so will miss all of it coincidentally but anyone who is around please let us know what actually happens.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
spark001uk said:
Why not? There's nothing stopping them being used in diesel mode at the moment, on lines it's been cleared for?

Or can they not enter passenger service at all until the electrical interference issues are sorted out?
Click to expand...

What would be the benefit of introducing it now, when all it would be would be a hindrance in diesel mode? Better to wait, as is happening, until Autumn when the line from Maidenhead to Reading should be fully wired and switched on, so that the IEP can start services utilising the faster acceleration and AC all the way from Paddington to Didcot, and then switch there to diesel, thus providing a faster service (slightly) instead of introducing them now and there being no positives ... shorter train (5 coaches) .... less bikes (3 IEP vs 5 HST) and lower top speed increasing journey times (100mph IEP vs 125mph HST).
 
spark001uk

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,326
leomartin125 said:
...and lower top speed increasing journey times (100mph IEP vs 125mph HST).
Click to expand...

Wow, I hadn't noticed that in the spec til you just mentioned it, that's a bit of a backward step isn't it? Even voyagers and adelantes can do 125!

I know the main 125 sections are designed to be used in electric mode, but still.!
 
Last edited:
najaB

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
31,274
Location
Scotland
spark001uk said:
Wow, I hadn't noticed that in the spec til you just mentioned it, that's a bit of a backward step isn't it? Even voyagers and adelantes can do 125!
Click to expand...
As you said, the areas that they are intended to be used in diesel mode are mostly (entirely?) 100mph or less. Why spec them for 125mph on diesel if it was never going to be used?
 
fgwrich

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,362
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
Right, the full post about the IEP from Roger Ford, Including issues with the electrical interference on RS3 (The Test Section of Reading to Didcot) and the aforementioned acceleration issues.

October debut for GWR IEP
Among the new trains due to start entering service this year is Great Western Railway’s Intercity Express Programme fleet.* But* when the railway technical press sat down with Hitachi management hard information on what comes next was in short supply. To an extent this was understandable.* Apart from the different Japanese business culture, many reputations are riding on the IEP, from the Department of Transport, which specified and bought it, to the multiple banks funding the trains.

But in the UK, we of the technical press are accustomed to asking straightforward, if awkward questions.* And if these are ducked, we just explore other channels.
*
For example, in the press release for the visit, GWR Managing Director Mark Hopwood was quoted as saying* that passengers could expect to see IEP trains ‘operating on our network next summer and in regular timetable service in autumn’. But pressed for more detail on the programme Hitachi would only repeat ‘autumn’. Informed Sources Third Law refers.

However, I understand that the current plan is to introduce six daily diagrams from mid October.* According to the Great Western Train Availability & Reliability Agreement with the IEP train service provider, 20 five car Class 800 Bi-mode sets should be available for service from 19 October.*

Acceptance
But then, how many sets will actually be available?* Another issue with no clear answer was the possible delay to electrical testing and thus acceptance.*

Route Section 3 (RS3)is the Great Western Main Line’s IEP* electrified test track between Reading and Didcot. Running started in July 2016 and promptly stopped when interference issues with the Overhead Line traction power supply emerged.* A second run at the end of September, with the IEP in its final electric power configuration, was also unsuccessful and since then there has been no further electrical acceptance running on RS3.

At the press* briefing Hitachi said that type testing was still progressing while the company was working through the electrical interference issues with Network Rail.* Yet when I asked how far back the delay to electric test running has pushed the programme, I was told ‘with the potential solutions we are looking at we don’t expect that [delayed electrical acceptance running] to have any programme impact’.*

Contractually the Type Acceptance date for the five car bi-mode is 2 February 2017 – in other words, next week.* And a Great Western Informed Source subsequently reported that Hitachi had claimed a 104 day delay to acceptance because of the unavailability of RS3 for electrical testing.**
*

Performance
Another question raised at the railway press briefing concerned long-standing query over the ability of the bi-modes to keep to IC125 timings when running under diesel power. The design maximum speed as a diesel is 100mile/h, although testing has shown the bi-mode can run faster.* Hitachi is working with GWR on end-to-end journey times to assess the impact of the bi-mode’s superior acceleration at low speeds, plus the benefit on station dwell times of the pocketed sliding power doors.*


When asked if the Class 800 engines would be restored to their full commercial output, as in the AT300 versions being supplied to GWR and TransPennine Express, Hitachi explained that with the electrified mileage expected to be available* ‘there is no requirement to change the rating of the engines’.

However, the immediate challenge is October this year. Airport Junction to Maidenhead is due to be energised* by June as part of the Crossrail programme: Reading-Didcot follows in* December. Assuming electric operation to Didcot, diesel running would be limited to the remaining 63 miles to Bristol Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway.


Of course, the easy way out in October would be to allocate the IEP diagrams to the Oxford service, where they could replace* the Class 180 DMUs. Since January these have been sub-leased by GWR from* Grand Central for four months.

So many unanswered questions, such as why has no one* bothered to establish the balancing speed of a five car bi-mode on level track?* And what sort of IEP timetable is planned for October?* Frustrating, but I will keep on beavering away.
Click to expand...
 
Envoy

Envoy

Established Member
Joined
29 Aug 2014
Messages
2,541
24 Jan 2017 - PAD > BPW & back. According to RTT, it is timed for 288mph max! What about the fog?
 
D

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
Just been looking at the Open Train Times live map, and 1X80 appears to have been routed through Royal Oak Sidings. Is this the only route on which they are cleared?
 
spark001uk

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,326
Don't know, but it's now at a stand in the loop at Southall. Think there might be something wrong.

1109: Now heading back towards pad.
1124: At a stand in Royal Oak sdgs.
1140: Back in North Pole.
 
Last edited:
J

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
3,375
spark001uk said:
Don't know, but it's now at a stand in the loop at Southall. Think there might be something wrong.

1109: Now heading back towards pad.
1124: At a stand in Royal Oak sdgs.
1140: Back in North Pole.
Click to expand...

There were technical issues with the set, it has returned to North Pole with the trip cancelled.
 
Last edited:
spark001uk

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,326
JN114 said:
There were technical issues with the set, it has returned to North Pole with the trip cancelled.
Click to expand...

OK thanks, thought something was up. Never a dull moment eh!
Will it re-run if they fix it? Not today obviously.
 
fgwrich

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,362
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
leomartin125 said:
Funny that. Plenty of times has a GWR IEP ran on electric mode on RS3 successfully...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA9OV8ikCY8
Click to expand...

JN114 said:
Just because it's moving under electrical power doesn't mean it's a successful test, that there isn't interference or some other issue not visible to an outside onserver.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but just because you highlight the fact it's run on Electric Mode in a video on YouTube doesn't mean that it's successfully tested and ready for use. I'm sure Industry Expert Roger Ford and his 'Informed Sources' Team know a little more about the subject and testing than you - Do you know how successful it is? Do you know Hitachi have applied for a Delay? Can you explain what the Electrical Interferences with the 800 Vs the OHLE & Signaling Systems? I.e, is it affecting the train itself?
 
spark001uk

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,326
Do we know if the interference is present on 800101? Or is the issue specific to RS3 and/or the 800/0?
 
LNW-GW Joint

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,968
Location
Mold, Clwyd
spark001uk said:
Do we know if the interference is present on 800101? Or is the issue specific to RS3 and/or the 800/0?
Click to expand...

The traction package and current collection system is common to all IEPs.
It will be the version of the traction package software which matters.

Until IEPs are routinely using RS3 (or other OHLE) there must be question marks over its certification.
A diesel-only IEP is no use to anyone.
Don't forget the OHLE is also under test.
I haven't seen any reports of class 387s or other electric stock using it yet.
 
W

w1bbl3

Member
Joined
6 Mar 2011
Messages
325
I thought a pre series IEP had done some electric mode running when at Old Dalby prior to moving onto ECML and GWML testing..?

Surely if the issue is a fundamental electric mode collection/traction package problem the testing back in '15 would have highlighted or that ECML electric testing would be similarly limited to GWML RS3 testing. Has the problem been identified as train, infrastructure or train/infrastructure interface as of yet?

I'd suspect if the issue is infrastructure related Hitachi will be actively trying to shift to the blame/delay towards NR. IIRC ECML testing from Doncaster to Newcastle or Peterborough and return is currently daily.
 
A

aiden_g1

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2015
Messages
40
LNW-GW Joint said:
Yes, but is it in electric mode?
It also has to change modes on the run, at speed.
And with two pantographs.
Click to expand...


It is indeed running in Electric mode. Where and when it will be transferring to Diesel mode on the run if at all is unknown.
 
D

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
Just seen 800004 pass through Swindon working 5X71 North Pole to Stoke Gifford. Was this the set involved in yesterday's failure?
 
D

Dave1987

On Moderation
Joined
20 Oct 2012
Messages
4,563
D1009 said:
Just seen 800004 pass through Swindon working 5X71 North Pole to Stoke Gifford. Was this the set involved in yesterday's failure?
Click to expand...

Yes, according to rail press guys on Twitter it was an engine fire.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top