GWR Class 800

[Noddy]

This official document says they have acceleration of 0.7m/s2 and standard deacceleration of 1.0m/s2 but it not clear if that's diesel or electric mode. No idea how that compares to a 7 or 8 car HST either!

http://www.hitachi.com/rev/pdf/2014/r2014_10_105.pdf

Perhaps superior braking will make up for any acceleration loss?

 

[WatcherZero]

Ive seen higher than 50 quoted from staff involved in tests, more like 70 and the derated ones were managing around 107mph top speed on pure diesel.

300 tonnes sounds like the government tender specification maximum weight.

 

[D1009]

110 m.p.h. max. Diesel only.

I find that surprising. I know that the data on RTT isn't accurate to the quarter minute, but the times shown on 1X80 today from Reading to Swindon start to stop in 24 minutes, and from Swindon to Bristol Parkway in 23 minutes suggest to me that if it was 110 mph max, the acceleration must have been very impressive.

Don't forget that the acceleration of the HST is significantly lower than the IEP, so through some slower sections the difference in time will be negligible. I haven't studied the sections in question, so this could be irrelevant.

Apparently, the timing run last week showed that they could keep to HST times on diesel as is. Throw in some electrified sections and they should be able to beat them comfortably.

If I remember correctly Roger Ford in the current Modern Railways puts the transition speed much lower, I think he says 7mph.

I thougaht We'd already disproved Mr Ford's analysis.

 

[Dave1987]

I thougaht We'd already disproved Mr Ford's analysis.

If you have disproved them I presume you have written to Mr Ford to show that his calculations are incorrect. He seems very happy to be corrected where he has got something wrong and openly admits to it in future columns. Yet in his February column he hasn't said he has received any complaints about his figures. So maybe his figures are accurate.

 

[traintimemf]

I saw one of these things in Newcastle about a month ago on platform 3 (I think) where the 11:30 to kings cross was supposed to leave from (was about 11:20) have these things entered service yet and is that a regular route?

curious to have a shot on one if so, but I suspect it was just about to get out the way for the actual departure..

 

[sprinterguy]

I saw one of these things in Newcastle about a month ago on platform 3 (I think) where the 11:30 to kings cross was supposed to leave from (was about 11:20) have these things entered service yet and is that a regular route?

The first set isn't due to be accepted by VTEC until late August 2018. Testing on the ECML north of Doncaster, as far as Newcastle, only commenced a bit less than a month ago so you probably witnessed one of the first test runs.

 

[traintimemf]

The first set isn't due to be accepted by VTEC until late August 2018. Testing on the ECML north of Doncaster, as far as Newcastle, only commenced a little less than a month ago so you probably witnessed one of the first test runs.

yeah I just saw it sitting at the station whilst I was walking past - if the departure hadn't been scheduled I wouldn't have given it a second thought as would have thought there would have been more noise made by the operator if it was actually in use...

didn't realise it would be 2018... when are the tpe ones happening?

 

[sprinterguy]

didn't realise it would be 2018... when are the tpe ones happening?

The lease commences in late August 2019; the AT-300 sets will be the last of the new Transpennine stock to enter service.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I saw one of these things in Newcastle about a month ago on platform 3 (I think) where the 11:30 to kings cross was supposed to leave from (was about 11:20) have these things entered service yet and is that a regular route?

It's wrong to think these trains belong to VTEC and are about to enter service.
All the 800/801s currently belong to Hitachi and are still testing their capability on the NR network (GWML and ECML), and don't have any clearance to take passengers yet.
In fact most of those you see are incomplete internally, and it may be later production versions which enter service first (with GWR this year, VTEC next, TPE 2019).

 

[jayah]

I find that surprising. I know that the data on RTT isn't accurate to the quarter minute, but the times shown on 1X80 today from Reading to Swindon start to stop in 24 minutes, and from Swindon to Bristol Parkway in 23 minutes suggest to me that if it was 110 mph max, the acceleration must have been very impressive.

Was this the one with 1151 at Swindon and N/R departing? Does that mean it didn't actually stop there?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Was this the one with 1151 at Swindon and N/R departing? Does that mean it didn't actually stop there?

Yes, it did stop there. It came to a complete stand and immediately powered away.

 

[jayah]

Yes, it did stop there. It came to a complete stand and immediately powered away.

Looks a good deal faster than a HST in that case. In fact 10mins Stop to Pass between Reading and Didcot is a full minute faster than you will do in a HST.

 

[D1009]

Looks a good deal faster than a HST in that case. In fact 10mins Stop to Pass between Reading and Didcot is a full minute faster than you will do in a HST.

Yes, that's why I queried whether it was 110 max and diesel only or what rating the engines were running at, but obviously Clarence Yard knows much more about it.

 

[800001]

800001 and 800002 out together on test runs today between York and Darlington.

 

[Dave1987]

Yes, that's why I queried whether it was 110 max and diesel only or what rating the engines were running at, but obviously Clarence Yard knows much more about it.

You still haven't answered my question. Have you emailed or written to Mr Ford to tell him you have completely disproven his figures?

 

[Plasmanoodle]

Hi folks,
Newbie here. Long time lurker!

Are there any early indications of the class 800 doing test runs through the Severn tunnel and onto the South Wales mainline?

We've travelled to Temple Meads to see it but it would be nice to see it in operation nearer to home!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Welcome to the Forum.

My guess is the first test runs West towards Cardiff will be to test the electrification. So probably no other test runs before electrification (or stages thereof) is completed. After all they have got rather more diesel only stretches than they expected so can do test runs on any of them.

That leads me to the assumption that the first 800s through to Cardiff will be when service trains start - or just before. That will be on diesel long before the wires are done it seems.

 

[D1009]

I thougaht We'd already disproved Mr Ford's analysis.

If you have disproved them I presume you have written to Mr Ford to show that his calculations are incorrect. He seems very happy to be corrected where he has got something wrong and openly admits to it in future columns. Yet in his February column he hasn't said he has received any complaints about his figures. So maybe his figures are accurate.

You still haven't answered my question. Have you emailed or written to Mr Ford to tell him you have completely disproven his figures?

Well as you have asked me twice, I can tell you the answer is no. I had only skimmed through the February column when I posted as above, but having now read it more carefully, I haven't changed my view.

I didn't say I had personally completely disproved his figures, what I was trying to say was that the times quoted on RTT for the test run suggested that either a speed higher than 107 mph (which Mr Ford mentions) on diesel must have been reached to achieve those times, or the acceleration on diesel is rather different from "running out of puff at 7 mph" or "IEP versus HST is like Usain Bolt taking on Mo Farah over 1,500 metres". I frequently travel by HST between Reading and Swindon, and even more frequently between Swindon and Bristol Parkway, and I know to do it in that sort of time with an HST certainly requires a top speed of over 120 mph.

However the only hard evidence on the test run I have is the data shown on RTT, and what Clarence Yard has posted, and I would love to see a detailed log of the run. Therefore I consider I don't personally have enough detailed information to challenge him on it, nor do I see much point in doing so. We should find out one way or the other by the end of the year.

Roger Ford is a respected railway journalist, and like all journalists he has to write material which is sufficiently interesting to sell his publication. In doing so, he does seem to allow his opinion of the IEP project and his frustration with the lack of detailed information from people he interviews to influence some of what he writes on the subject.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well enough of the information about IEP seems to be hard to get at that it would raise my humble suspicions. I would expect Roger Ford to do his job and dig and dig and then start being cynical if digging was not working. I think that Roger Ford is justified in raising these concerns. H could possibly be correct but I am waiting with baited breath for more information.

 

[ben2012]

Can I ask if any one that has a fleet list of these units and which ones have been done

 

[D1009]

Can I ask if any one that has a fleet list of these units and which ones have been done

The class 800 Wikipedia article has a list of unit numbers (though I can't vouch for its accuracy), I've not yet seen a list of coach numbers. As far as I know the only ones involved in the testing so far are 800001 to 800004 (5 car) and 800101 (9 car). 800005 was shown off to the railway press in December at Newton Aycliffe, and 800006 was reported outside Newton Aycliffe a few pages ago in this thread.

 

[Typhoon_93]

Bi-modes Class 800
800001-4 operational on test
800005 currently outside at Aycliffe (not been on test track yet)
800006 was outside 06/07-02-17 now back inside test shed.
Above that all I know is on 06-02-17 800011 was being moved from assembly area to test shed (coach 814011 was seen complete)
Shells for 800021 were delivered 07-02-17.
800101 operational on test

Electric Class 801
801xxx built in Japan for GWR as IEP037 is outside at Aycliffe believed now to be for VTEC.

Unknown Class 800/801
A set arrived at Southampton last week and is heading north, reportedly at Leicester services last night. Doncaster or Aycliffe bound..?

Hope that helps.
Gareth

 

[Plasmanoodle]

Welcome to the Forum.

My guess is the first test runs West towards Cardiff will be to test the electrification. So probably no other test runs before electrification (or stages thereof) is completed. After all they have got rather more diesel only stretches than they expected so can do test runs on any of them.

That leads me to the assumption that the first 800s through to Cardiff will be when service trains start - or just before. That will be on diesel long before the wires are done it seems.

Thanks for your warm welcome, Peter.

Much of what you say makes perfect sense. I guess we'll just have to wait a little while longer, further westwards! I suppose they will start to serve Cardiff before they are pushed a little further along to Swansea, albeit under diesel power, as you rightly say.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thanks for your warm welcome, Peter.
Much of what you say makes perfect sense. I guess we'll just have to wait a little while longer, further westwards! I suppose they will start to serve Cardiff before they are pushed a little further along to Swansea, albeit under diesel power, as you rightly say.

I think it depends on when Hitachi wants to bring their new depot at Swansea Maliphant into the loop.
At some point they will want to test the depot infrastructure and start to train the maintenance staff.
Also to test the route west of Bristol Parkway of course (plus diversion via the Vale route).
But presumably that will come after the current round of more basic acceptance tests are complete.

 

[ExTankieAaron]

Bi-modes Class 800
800001-4 operational on test
800005 currently outside at Aycliffe (not been on test track yet)
800006 was outside 06/07-02-17 now back inside test shed.
Above that all I know is on 06-02-17 800011 was being moved from assembly area to test shed (coach 814011 was seen complete)
Shells for 800021 were delivered 07-02-17.
800101 operational on test

Electric Class 801
801xxx built in Japan for GWR as IEP037 is outside at Aycliffe believed now to be for VTEC.

Unknown Class 800/801
A set arrived at Southampton last week and is heading north, reportedly at Leicester services last night. Doncaster or Aycliffe bound..?

Hope that helps.
Gareth

Yup T71 arrived at Doncaster today. T72 in the next week or so. Both 5 car electric.

 

[leomartin125]

Yup T71 arrived at Doncaster today. T72 in the next week or so. Both 5 car electric.

Regarding T71 and T72, your saying these are 5 car 801's (Electric), would these be for GWR or for Virgin? The 5 car sounds like a GWR order, but the electric part draws my attention to Virgin?

 

[800001]

Regarding T71 and T72, your saying these are 5 car 801's (Electric), would these be for GWR or for Virgin? The 5 car sounds like a GWR order, but the electric part draws my attention to Virgin?

Taken from WNXX website:-

'IEP vehicles sighted on the M1 on the 12th, "assumed to have arrived at Southampton fairly recently. According to a label attached to the driving car it was number 821101 (from set 801101) and it is assumed the non-driving car was 822101 from the same
set, but unable to confirm having tried to make out the label in the pictures..."

 

[Peter Sarf]

Regarding T71 and T72, your saying these are 5 car 801's (Electric), would these be for GWR or for Virgin? The 5 car sounds like a GWR order, but the electric part draws my attention to Virgin?

If I remember correctly GWR are to receive only 800s now. The original straight electric 801s (9-car) are to be converted-to/replaced-by 800s.

 

[Typhoon_93]

T71 and T72 are VTEC.

 

[Typhoon_93]

Doncaster is the obvious choice to base n test the 801's as the factory if full with the GWR 800's and Scotrail 385's. Wonder when/if the 9car 801 at the factory will move to Doncaster.