GWR Class 800

[800001]

T71 and T72 are VTEC.

And here it is at Doncaster today.

 

[D1009]

Anyone know why there has been no testing on GW for the last couple of weeks?

 

[800001]

Anyone know why there has been no testing on GW for the last couple of weeks?

There is only 800003 and 800004 down on GWR.

800001, 800002 and 800101 all currently based off Doncaster doing testing on ECML.

But sorry, no idea why nothing happening on GWR.

 

[FGW_DID]

Anyone know why there has been no testing on GW for the last couple of weeks?

It may be down to the simple fact that most nights there is a full electrical isolation, with a Block to Electric Traction in place. The last 800 run 'on the juice' was ( I think) the same night the 387 test runs were carried out between Reading TCD & Didcot.

 

[WatcherZero]

First GWR bodyshell arrives in Italy for the follow on order.


And a close up of 800004 at Stoke Gifford

Things along the bottom from left to right.

Green lever,
Safety instructions for emergency door release lever,
Sign saying P8 wheel profile and a diagram of the wheel profile,
down arrow labelled 1.

Along the top the black thing is an open access panel allowing access to a hydraulic hose junction or a heavy duty electrical cable connector, bit hard to make out which.

 

[gwr4090]

Welcome to the Forum.

My guess is the first test runs West towards Cardiff will be to test the electrification. So probably no other test runs before electrification (or stages thereof) is completed. After all they have got rather more diesel only stretches than they expected so can do test runs on any of them.

That leads me to the assumption that the first 800s through to Cardiff will be when service trains start - or just before. That will be on diesel long before the wires are done it seems.

I'm surprised nothing has yet been to Swansea where the IEP maintenance depot was completed some time ago including the OHL wiring.

 

[gwr4090]

Anyone know why there has been no testing on GW for the last couple of weeks?

Modern Railways has suggested that the previous tests revealed some problems with double pantograph operation which need to be resolved. Perhaps this is the reason ?

 

[66Yorks]

Saw the Class 800 , for the first time, on a test through York today. In terms of design I think they look good.

 

[WatcherZero]

Modern Railways has suggested that the previous tests revealed some problems with double pantograph operation which need to be resolved. Perhaps this is the reason ?

I thought it was some EM interference issue?

 

[najaB]

I thought it was some EM interference issue?

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[flyingbanana]

Does anyone have any idea where the 800 will be working in the coming weeks on the ECML? Seems like it is on regular driver training between York and Darlington only - any chance of them visiting Newcastle again?

 

[800001]

Does anyone have any idea where the 800 will be working in the coming weeks on the ECML? Seems like it is on regular driver training between York and Darlington only - any chance of them visiting Newcastle again?

It's not driver training. It's testing of the trains by Hitachi, operated by GBRF drivers. This week have been doing Doncaster - Darlington and Doncaster - Peterborough.

As with most testing it will or could change on a daily or weekly basis.

 

[66Yorks]

Here is the one I saw on RTT.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O73055/2017/02/15/advanced

 

[D1009]

It may be down to the simple fact that most nights there is a full electrical isolation, with a Block to Electric Traction in place. The last 800 run 'on the juice' was ( I think) the same night the 387 test runs were carried out between Reading TCD & Didcot.

So could it be that all testing on diesel on GW is now complete, and the main thing now is the electrical interference issues, which could be the reason for the block to electric traction?

 

[leomartin125]

So could it be that all testing on diesel on GW is now complete, and the main thing now is the electrical interference issues, which could be the reason for the block to electric traction?

I highly doubt all diesel testing is complete on the GWML, surely if GWR want to introduce the IEP's on the Cotswold routes later this year, they need to be tested on that route, and none of that is 'on the juice' as North of Didcot is diesel running only.

 

[FGW_DID]

So could it be that all testing on diesel on GW is now complete, and the main thing now is the electrical interference issues, which could be the reason for the block to electric traction?

No, the various isolations and BTET are all linked to various engineering possessions.

 

[Plasmanoodle]

I think it depends on when Hitachi wants to bring their new depot at Swansea Maliphant into the loop.
At some point they will want to test the depot infrastructure and start to train the maintenance staff.
Also to test the route west of Bristol Parkway of course (plus diversion via the Vale route).
But presumably that will come after the current round of more basic acceptance tests are complete.

I'd completely forgotten about the testing of the diversionary route through the vale onto Bridgend. Do we know if 800 services will be reaching Swansea initially or just Cardiff? I guess it'd make sense to head straight onto Swansea if they want to bring the Hitachi depot there into service sooner rather than later.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'd completely forgotten about the testing of the diversionary route through the vale onto Bridgend. Do we know if 800 services will be reaching Swansea initially or just Cardiff? I guess it'd make sense to head straight onto Swansea if they want to bring the Hitachi depot there into service sooner rather than later.

The 800s are Bi-Mode so will get to Swansea regardless of which side of Cardiff the electrification has got to.

 

[alastair]

Not good that Roger Ford of Modern Railways considers in his Informed Sources column preview of today, that a Chiltern class 168 "knocks spots off" an IEP for seat comfort and general ambiance in standard class.

 

[Peter Sarf]

More seriously. Also in the preview of Roger Fords column it seems that the power to weight ratio of an IEP does need improving to match an HST. How quiet are the non-de-rated engines going to be once they have been run in I wonder. I do not expect the coaches would ever be as quiet as a Mk3 (with no engine under it). Just hope I am wrong and the engines could well be de-rated quite soon as electrification spreads.

My instincts do tell me that IEP is a big risk. Oh go on lets order more :roll:.

 

[sprinterguy]

I do not expect the coaches would ever be as quiet as a Mk3 (with no engine under it).

It's worth noting that two carriages in a five car set and four carriages in a nine car set will not have engines under them.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's worth noting that two carriages in a five car set and four carriages in a nine car set will not have engines under them.

Very true that is 40% - 44.5% of the unit with no engine. Well a bit better, perhaps 45% - 50% of seats in coaches with no engine. That is because the driving coaches have less seats in.

 

[Envoy]

It's worth noting that two carriages in a five car set and four carriages in a nine car set will not have engines under them.

If those with engines underneath are as bad as the Voyagers, I wonder whether the public will cotton on & head for the non powered coaches?

 

[ainsworth74]

On the subject of noise I'm going to quote myself from a few weeks ago:

From the IEP Train Technical Specification:

When the IEP Vehicle is running at speed from 50km/h up to the maximum, the arithmetic mean of the measured interior noise levels within the saloon of each IEP Vehicle must be within the range 50 to 57 dB, described using the Preferred Speech Interference Level (PSIL) descriptor.

At speeds below 50km/h, the arithmetic mean of the measured interior noise levels within the saloon of each IEP Vehicle shall be below 57 dB, described using the Preferred Speech Interference Level (PSIL) descriptor.

A rapid bit of Googling would suggest that 50-60db is equivalent to 'normal conversation' so not exactly loud.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks for the reminder "ainsworth74" I agree that is what is expected. I just fear the reality will be different, especially when the engines are no longer new. Also I wonder if the figures you quote above are for the uprated (or rather un-derated) engines ?.

It will not be long before it will be possible to judge for ourselves - will be down to human perspective which might not be so precise.

 

[ainsworth74]

I just fear the reality will be different, especially when the engines are no longer new.

Well I guess we'd have to see what the penalties are for non-compliance! However I suspect that will be commercially sensitive sadly!

Also I wonder if the figures you quote above are for the uprated (or rather un-derated) engines ?.

Hmm an interesting question but I don't think the specification makes any allowance for power so presumably they would be expected to meet the specification come what may (though, of course, I'm sure the Department would be willing to offer a derogation).

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well I guess we'd have to see what the penalties are for non-compliance! However I suspect that will be commercially sensitive sadly!



Hmm an interesting question but I don't think the specification makes any allowance for power so presumably they would be expected to meet the specification come what may (though, of course, I'm sure the Department would be willing to offer a derogation).

I think you have hit the nails on the head. That's if there is a noise problem.

I also suspect some people will hear the noise which is below the 57dB and still find it un-intercity like. It will of course be a matter of how many passengers find it an important factor.

 

[4973]

If those with engines underneath are as bad as the Voyagers, I wonder whether the public will cotton on & head for the non powered coaches?

Having heard 800101 move off from rest under Diesel power I'd say they are MUCH quieter than Voyagers. Certainly from the outside - you can hardly hear them even when stood right alongside.

 

[najaB]

Having heard 800101 move off from rest under Diesel power I'd say they are MUCH quieter than Voyagers. Certainly from the outside - you can hardly hear them even when stood right alongside.

I haven't heard one in person yet, but in at least one video there was a Voyager idling and a Class 800 came into shot closer to the camera than the Voyager, stopped and moved off again yet the Voyager was audible throughout.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Having heard 800101 move off from rest under Diesel power I'd say they are MUCH quieter than Voyagers. Certainly from the outside - you can hardly hear them even when stood right alongside.

Having now been inside units 1, 2 and 4 on test, they are VERY quiet on diesel, certainly nothing like a Voyager.