GWR Class 800

[Nippy]

I heard apparently Hitachi are screaming at them as they wanted it left white and not done up in GWR livery???

Don't take it for gospel, only what I heard

Well since it was vinyled at a Hitachi depot I'm sure they had some say in it!

I'm also assuming it's only temporarily vinyled at present as there was Network Rail branding on it as well.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I heard apparently Hitachi are screaming at them as they wanted it left white and not done up in GWR livery???

Don't take it for gospel, only what I heard

Is it a set that's due to become an Virgin East Coast set?

 

[ainsworth74]

That was a DFT mandate for the sets they (DFT) ordered for the PAD-Bristol/Cardiff runs.
GWR were allowed to spec the ones they ordered for the Plymouth/Penzance runs and so have kept a decent food prep area on them.

As far as I'm aware all of the SETs ordered for GWR will include full kitchen facilities. However the DfT ordered sets (on the GWML at least) will not have buffets.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Just looking at the vid of the launch of the GWR set, it's a good sized gap between the doors and the platform on the curved platforms!

 

[Domh245]

Is it a set that's due to become an Virgin East Coast set?

Abrail has the 800/0s as GWR units.

 

[Harbornite]

I heard apparently Hitachi are screaming at them as they wanted it left white and not done up in GWR livery???

Don't take it for gospel, only what I heard

Where did you hear this?

 

[D1009]

Not for public use, so can match the body rather than having to contrast.

Do cab door handles and handrails have to contrast now? I suppose it helps when entering the cab at night in unlit locations.

 

[TransportHub]

Here's my video of the 800 at Paddington https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoNV2oo4_os

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Well since it was vinyled at a Hitachi depot I'm sure they had some say in it!

I'm also assuming it's only temporarily vinyled at present as there was Network Rail branding on it as well.

Yeah, the vinyl will be temporary.

There's the unresolved (as far as I'm aware) issue about the IEP sets being delivered in white to GWR under the terms of the train service agreements.

 

[Harbornite]

Thought I'd share these two shots from Twitter and TRC respectively.

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/748506257468817408

http://www.railway-centre.com/june-2016.html

 

[jayiscupid]

It was published before the rules came into action, but the rule was known about before hand. I would expect GWR to actually keep the yellow to provide some consistency across the fleet. If every other train has got a yellow front, then why change it for the AT300s?

Fair point!

 

[XCTurbostar]

I bet there were a lot of conversations relating to the rather apparent and obvious reduction in the number of coaches on the new trains in comparison to the much more fit for purpose HST.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[jimm]

I bet there were a lot of conversations relating to the rather apparent and obvious reduction in the number of coaches on the new trains in comparison to the much more fit for purpose HST.

Thanks,
Ross

As opposed to your rather apparent and obvious omission of the fact - which I assume you are aware of - that GWR will receive 21 nine-car Class 801s and seven nine-car AT300s (ie like-for-like long train replacements for more than half of GWR's current HST fleet), and enough five-car sets to provide 29 2x5 formations - not, of course, that they will run coupled all the time for reasons that have been endlessly discussed previously back up this thread and elsewhere. And there may be a few more AT300s to come as well, which would mean 52 or 53 HST rakes will be replaced by 57 (firm orders) or 60+ nine-car or 2x5 formations.

There is nothing fit for purpose about running an eight-coach HST through Cornwall most of the day in the depths of winter or all the way from Paddington to Hereford off-peak.

 

[RobShipway]

As opposed to your rather apparent and obvious omission of the fact - which I assume you are aware of - that GWR will receive 21 nine-car Class 801s and seven nine-car AT300s (ie like-for-like long train replacements for more than half of GWR's current HST fleet), and enough five-car sets to provide 29 2x5 formations - not, of course, that they will run coupled all the time for reasons that have been endlessly discussed previously back up this thread and elsewhere. And there may be a few more AT300s to come as well, which would mean 52 or 53 HST rakes will be replaced by 57 (firm orders) or 60+ nine-car or 2x5 formations.

There is nothing fit for purpose about running an eight-coach HST through Cornwall most of the day in the depths of winter or all the way from Paddington to Hereford off-peak.

I would also add that with the class 800/801 having longer coaches, that within a 5 car IEP train is as many seats as an 8 car HST. So as well as having more trains that is more seats as has also previously been discussed within this thread.

Also, I would add that a year ago this weekend I travelled up to Worcestor Forgate Street from Reading enroute to Kidderminster and I practically had a coach to myself on the 08:53 train after Oxford.

 

[LexyBoy]

I would also add that with the class 800/801 having longer coaches, that within a 5 car IEP train is as many seats as an 8 car HST. So as well as having more trains that is more seats as has also previously been discussed within this thread.

Bit of an exaggeration! 5-car 800 has 315 seats, vs. roughly 525 on an HST. Not sure how you'd fit 184 metres of coaching into 130 and still have room for two cabs.

2x5 or 9 car, as will operate for the most part, will of course give more capacity than an HST.

 

[leomartin125]

Yeah, the vinyl will be temporary.

There's the unresolved (as far as I'm aware) issue about the IEP sets being delivered in white to GWR under the terms of the train service agreements.

I spoke to the depot manager at Old Oak Common recently who explicitely stated that Hitachi were (from Summer 2017 onwards) going to control all aspects of the GWR IEP delivery and introuction, and the depots will be employing Hitachi staff only, with nobody from GWR transferring over. This may well mean that the 'issue' between Hitachi and GWR delivering the trains in white, is entirely down to Hitachi in the first place, as it's their employees who would be painting/vinyling them before or after delivery. As far as GWR are concerned, the trains arrive, route learn and commence entry. Everything else is left up to Hitachi.

 

[coppercapped]

I spoke to the depot manager at Old Oak Common recently who explicitely stated that Hitachi were (from Summer 2017 onwards) going to control all aspects of the GWR IEP delivery and introuction, and the depots will be employing Hitachi staff only, with nobody from GWR transferring over. This may well mean that the 'issue' between Hitachi and GWR delivering the trains in white, is entirely down to Hitachi in the first place, as it's their employees who would be painting/vinyling them before or after delivery. As far as GWR are concerned, the trains arrive, route learn and commence entry. Everything else is left up to Hitachi.

Which is exactly what one would expect to happen from the terms of the Train Service Provision contract signed between the DfT and Agility Trains (West). Recently I heard a GWR manager state something to the effect that Hitachi has designed a very flexible train but the DfT has designed a very inflexible contract.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I spoke to the depot manager at Old Oak Common recently who explicitely stated that Hitachi were (from Summer 2017 onwards) going to control all aspects of the GWR IEP delivery and introuction, and the depots will be employing Hitachi staff only, with nobody from GWR transferring over. This may well mean that the 'issue' between Hitachi and GWR delivering the trains in white, is entirely down to Hitachi in the first place, as it's their employees who would be painting/vinyling them before or after delivery. As far as GWR are concerned, the trains arrive, route learn and commence entry. Everything else is left up to Hitachi.

It's actually a bit more complicated.

Hitachi won't interact with GWR directly, the Train Service Provision agreement is with Agility Trains West, who in turn contract with Hitachi for rolling stock supply and subsequent maintenance provision. Agility also contracts with John Laing for depot facilities provision and maintenance.

I believe currently the IEP sets haven't formally been delivered to Agility Trains West, but are still with Hitachi at the rolling stock supply stage of the contract.

The contract GWR (or rather, the DfT and GW franchisee) has with Agility Trains West is for the supply of diagrams which will be operated by a trainset (or multiple train sets) in white livery.

The contract is so complicated that in theory, Hitachi could be forced to sub-lease a Hitachi AT300 (non IEP) trainset from GWR to operate an IEP diagram for GWR. The payments and penalties for that become mindbogglingly complicated.

 

[sciisfun]

The contract GWR (or rather, the DfT and GW franchisee) has with Agility Trains West is for the supply of diagrams which will be operated by a trainset (or multiple train sets) in white livery.

so after all the fanfare and unavailing at Paddington yesterday, the vast majority of the 80x's will be white, and in theory only the ones that carry on past Plymouth or wherever they are meant to split for Cornwall will be green? or have I missed something?

 

[DenmarkRail]

so after all the fanfare and unavailing at Paddington yesterday, the vast majority of the 80x's will be white, and in theory only the ones that carry on past Plymouth or wherever they are meant to split for Cornwall will be green? or have I missed something?

They will all be green, it is just who will make them green

 

[Dave1987]

One thing I have learnt is never ever ever criticise the IEP project on this forum, or you will be lambasted by couple of members. I've heard a few things from someone who is involved in the project but I'm not posting it on this thread.

 

[Domh245]

I've heard a few things from someone who is involved in the project but I'm not posting it on this thread.

You tease :P

Good things or bad things?

 

[Dave1987]

You tease :P

Good things or bad things?

Some good but some bad as well.

 

[jon0844]

As this is a forum with thousands of members, are you really worried about a few with extreme or unchangeable views?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

One thing I have learnt is never ever ever criticise the IEP project on this forum, or you will be lambasted by couple of members. I've heard a few things from someone who is involved in the project but I'm not posting it on this thread.

Always happy to hear sensible criticism, just not some of the complaints which have arisen from not understanding layout, train specification or from reading Roger Ford who remains slightly disappointed not to be getting a Class 87 then a pair of Class 50s or a Deltic onwards from Newbury.

 

[Dave1987]

Well, I've heard that the SRT's for IEP under diesel power are pretty woeful. The distributed traction blah blah blah just can't make up for the lack of raw grunt at higher speeds. In fact some of the timings are no improvement on the current stock and some routes will be slower.

 

[jimm]

As this is a forum with thousands of members, are you really worried about a few with extreme or unchangeable views?

Assuming I am one of the 'couple of members', which seems highly likely, I don't consider my views to be extreme in the slightest. Unless having the temerity to challenge repeatedly negative comments is extreme...

If it's unchangeable you want, then do look up some of Dave1987's comments about the IEP over the past few years - unchangeable negativity being the key feature.

Is he now going to share the 'some good' things he has been told, as well as the 'bad' ones, which I see he couldn't restrain himself from mentioning, all of an hour after saying he wouldn't? Let's see...

 

[leomartin125]

Little update on the GWR IEP status.

After the ceremony in Paddington on Thursday, GWR Class 800 004 has returned to North Pole for stabling.

Network Rail plan to energise the wires between Reading Scours Lane Jct and Didcot Parkway today (2nd July 2016) ready for IEP testing to start in "electric mode" in the next few weeks (pushed forward from the original September testing start date).

This means 800 004 may well stay at North Pole and be the first GWR IEP to be tested in electric mode on the GWML in the next few weeks.

Source: http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/main-line/great-western-launches-hitachi-class-800-fleet.html?channel=

 

[jimm]

Little update on the GWR IEP status.

After the ceremony in Paddington on Thursday, GWR Class 800 004 has returned to North Pole for stabling.

Network Rail plan to energise the wires between Reading Scours Lane Jct and Didcot Parkway today (2nd July 2016) ready for IEP testing to start in "electric mode" in the next few weeks (pushed forward from the original September testing start date).

This means 800 004 may well stay at North Pole and be the first GWR IEP to be tested in electric mode on the GWML in the next few weeks.

Source: http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/main-line/great-western-launches-hitachi-class-800-fleet.html?channel=

In what way is this an update?

We know that 800004 went back to North Pole. Or did you miss the realtimetrains links posted on this forum showing that was what it was going to do?

We know that the wires (or some of them at least given the gaps there still are in places) are due to go live this weekend. It has been mentioned in the GW electrification thread once or twice.

It has also been pointed out by people who know these things that there is zero chance of any trains being tested under electric power for a good few weeks, as the electrification engineers have to carry out lots of tests on the overhead wiring before they let a train anywhere near it. September is not all that many weeks away now, in case you hadn't noticed. Nothing that Mark Hopwood said in that article suggests IEP testing on the GWML is being brought forward.

 

[krus_aragon]

Off of Wikipedia and my own understanding

GWR:

• 21 x 9 car bi modes [801*] (originally electric but switched due to wiring delays)
• 36 x 5 car bi modes [800]
• 22 x 5 car bi modes [802] (separate to IEP)
• 7 x 9 car bi modes [802] (separate to IEP)

Replacing: HSTs and 180s (and some Turbos as well IIRC)

VTEC:

• 12 x 5 car electric [801]
• 30 x 9 car electric [801]
• 13 x 9 car bi modes [800]
• 10 x 5 car bi modes [800]

Replacing: HSTs and IC225s

Then also, Hull trains will receive 5x 5 car 802s, and TPE will receive 19x 5 car 802s. There is also speculation that there will be a few more 5 car 802s for GWR to make up the difference by them receiving only 387s and no 365s.


*or maybe 800, not sure know

That makes upwards of 1100 IEP/80x carriages on order. It's just dawned on me that that exceeds the number of Mark 3 carriages built... (HST and Loco)