Saw a nine car Class 802 (802101) on test this morning - they will be operating WOE services soon. Get those HST's in while you can!
Agreed!Saw a nine car Class 802 (802101) on test this morning - they will be operating WOE services soon. Get those HST's in while you can!
Ah right. So we should accept a mediocre product because it's better than something truely awful that would never be used on long distance services anyway.
Due to the door pockets reducing the interior width.Incidentally i sat in the first pair of seats next to the luggage rack this morning and went to pull down the centre arm rest to find there isn't one. I then looked at the first row on the other side (the no window seat) and that doesn't have one either. This is a bit odd anyone know why?
When the HST`s were introduced they were 35 mph faster in places than the class 52`s they were replacing. Bearing in mind the 800`s has been over 40 years in the making as a replacement,
The 800`s are hardly big progress.
How much progress can you make? Dual power capability, AC motors, canbus systems, TMS, etc etc. It was never going to be futuristic, the spec and the budget didn’t ask or allow for that.
Its hardly the 800’s fault that they cannot travel at faster than the 125 line speed, albeit they could increase top speed if the line speed were raised.
I’m fairly convinced that the 800’s haven’t been in development for 40 years.....
How much progress can you make? Dual power capability, AC motors, canbus systems, TMS, etc etc. It was never going to be futuristic, the spec and the budget didn’t ask or allow for that.
Again though, define your terms of measurement.Bearing in mind the 800`s has been over 40 years in the making as a replacement, they are clearly a sideways step rather than a lurch forward. There was only 15 years between the HST and the 52`s incidently but wow what a leap. The 800`s are hardly big progress.
The lack of speed is hardly the fault of the Class 800. UK regulations don't allow it to go any faster without in cab signalling. And while it's all equipped for that, it still needs to wait for the trackside work to be complete. Whenever that happens to be.
“Whenever that happens to be”? Makes me wonder why that has not been done as of now and how many years will it be until they can do 140mph on the faster sections of track?
“Whenever that happens to be”? Makes me wonder why that has not been done as of now and how many years will it be until they can do 140mph on the faster sections of track?
It will be if and when the DfT decides it wants to pay for it - and when ETCS is installed on the Great Western Main Line to provide in-cab signalling for IETs.
Or would you have preferred Network Rail to try to install and commission ETCS at the same time as the electrification work?
We all know how well the electrification project has gone...
These are 3 HUGE things from a passenger's perspective, probably the most important things there are. Passengers do not care about computers and fuelling and all the rest of it. They want a train that provides a comfortable seat in a pleasant environment that gets them there as quickly as possible. Basic really.Not every single part of a new train will be improved from everyones point of view.
The only things I've read about it ride quality, seats and lighting. Three small things in the grand scheme of a whole train.
How much difference would it make to end-to-end times?
100 miles at 90mph would take about 67 mins (Westerns)
100 miles at 125mph would take 48 mins (HST/IET under conventional signalling)
100 miles at 140mph would take about 43 mins (IET under ECTS)
I'm not convinced the time saving would justify the cost. It certainly wouldn't be the step change the HSTs brought.
These are 3 HUGE things from a passenger's perspective, probably the most important things there are. Passengers do not care about computers and fuelling and all the rest of it. They want a train that provides a comfortable seat in a pleasant environment that gets them there as quickly as possible. Basic really.
It also happens to be what the HSTs provided when new and still make a pretty good fist of doing 40 years later.
ETCS should also help squeeze even more trains on. The speed will be a nice to have and help stuff like recovery. The bigger change will be upping the average speed. This has been already noted with the improved acceleration under wires allowing the 800s to essentially meet the original HST timings between Reading and Paddington with all the extra safety stuff and speed restrictions that have been added.
Comfort is only up to a certain point. Otherwise Ryanair and EasyJet would look very different. Speed, reliability, and price is what the general travelling public care about. These are things the 800s will help deliver.
We'll soon be able to compare 800s in electric mode with the class 397 CAF inter-city units for TPE, now under construction.
They will be limited to 110mph on the WCML, but could operate at 125mph on the ECML/GWML.
Class 444/350 at 110mph max are hardly a relevant comparison with 125mph 800s.
Desiro stability at speed is by no means perfect, even if their comfort level is superior to 800s.
ETCS should also help squeeze even more trains on. The speed will be a nice to have and help stuff like recovery. The bigger change will be upping the average speed. This has been already noted with the improved acceleration under wires allowing the 800s to essentially meet the original HST timings between Reading and Paddington with all the extra safety stuff and speed restrictions that have been added.
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Is that the case? I was of the understanding that the first deployment on a mainline was the ECML between Kings Cross and Hitchin.Buit ETCS has apparently been abandoned on the GWML (at least for the time beinmg). It should have been implemented by the end of the year to replace GW-APT ?
Correct - the 5-car sets are vinyl. Very obvious in places as you can see the white paint underneath e.g. around the cab doors.Travelled on 800304 today on 1C03 the 07:00 padd to Bristol first time I've seen a 9 car it had me in the wrong position on the platform! Was very full at the back close to first class which was empty. Otherwise identical to 5 cars except this actually smelt of new paint, I assume the 800/0 are vinyles rather than paint. This actually looked shiny compared to the 5 cars.
Buit ETCS has apparently been abandoned on the GWML (at least for the time beinmg). It should have been implemented by the end of the year to replace GW-APT ?
The Heathrow Branch is moving to ETCS, and it doesn't have TPWS, so stock has to either be ATP fitted or ETCS fitted. When the Class 332s go, they're being replaced by 387s, and they're never going to be fitted with ATP.Abandoned? Then please explain why, according to the current issue of Modern Railways, Porterbrook has just agreed a contract with Siemens to fit the GWR 387s with ETCS equipment. First train not due to be equipped until early 2020 but I don't think anyone would bother agreeing to spend money on such a project if GMWL ETCS had been abandoned.
The IETs are already ready for ETCS.