Heysham cancellations

[zero]

Looks like the train between Morecambe and Heysham has been cancelled every day this week (but still ran from Lancaster).

Does anyone have more details about what is happening? I have an upcoming trip to the Isle of Man - should I be planning an alternative way to get to the port?

 

[Bletchleyite]

RTT shows TG, traincrew issue. I guess it is low priority if COVID absences are high.

I would imagine if you rock up the booking office will sort you a taxi, or just grab one from outside the main entrance and send Northern the bill if they won't (P3 side). There are normally some there.

 

[zero]

RTT shows TG, traincrew issue. I guess it is low priority if COVID absences are high.

Yes I saw that but as I said it's been running between Lancaster and Morecambe...

 

[STINT47]

Yes I saw that but as I said it's been running between Lancaster and Morecambe...

Could be a route knowledge issue. Do only a select number of staff sign to Heysham?

If so and they're off sick then they could be able to operate part of the route and offer anyone impacted a taxi

 

[randyrippley]

There may be a bus replacement - at the moment Morecambe branch RRBs seem to be usually run by KT's Coaches

It could be worth having a word with the SteamPacket - I don't know if it's still the case, but when the boat trains were reinstated (admittedly years ago) it was financed by a SteamPacket contract/subsidy. They may well still hold the purse strings

Could be a route knowledge issue. Do only a select number of staff sign to Heysham?

If so and they're off sick then they could be able to operate part of the route and offer anyone impacted a taxi

It's been reported before that Leeds drivers sign to Morecambe but need a Barrow driver (nuclear flask traffic) to babysit them to Heysham

 

[Ken H]

Yes I saw that but as I said it's been running between Lancaster and Morecambe...

No available train crew who sign morecambe-Heysham?

 

[godfreycomplex]

There may be a bus replacement - at the moment Morecambe branch RRBs seem to be usually run by KT's Coaches

It could be worth having a word with the SteamPacket - I don't know if it's still the case, but when the boat trains were reinstated (admittedly years ago) it was financed by a SteamPacket contract/subsidy. They may well still hold the purse strings


It's been reported before that Leeds drivers sign to Morecambe but need a Barrow driver (nuclear flask traffic) to babysit them to Heysham

Skipton and Ex Northern link drivers at Barrow involved.

Only one link at Barrow sign Heysham, but Lancaster - Morecambe is signed by Skipton, Wigan Wallgate and both links at Barrow (so a much larger pool of traincrew to choose from)

The flask traffic would be a DRS crew from Sellafield or Carlisle

 

[janb]

Yeah the required Barrow driver unavailable. If they can a source a replacement that signs Lancaster-Morecambe then the train can run that far, and bus Morecambe - Heysham. If they can't get anybody then bus runs Lancaster - Heysham.

The past 4 weeks it has been cancelled throughout on the 9th, 10th, 16th, 19th, and run as far as Morecambe 30th and 31st. Ran all the other days.

 

[Class800]

Would it be difficult to train the staff on just one more station Morecambe to Heysham? Would solve these issues.

 

[Kite159]

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?
(Rather than people using the train solely to cover the track and will simply return on the same train)

Sometimes if there is a staff shortage, it's better to cancel the services which are low demand (easy enough to put any genuine passengers in a taxi from Morecambe to Heysham or vice-versa) then to cancel a service which might affect more passengers. (I.e. London Northwestern putting buses on the Abbey Line)

 

[zwk500]

Would it be difficult to train the staff on just one more station Morecambe to Heysham? Would solve these issues.

It's quite difficult to do quickly as staff need to be taken off normal duties to learn the route, and maintaining a larger pool of qualified staff with such an infrequent service would also be challenging. Not impossible though.

 

[godfreycomplex]

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?

You would be surprised

 

[Watershed]

Would it be difficult to train the staff on just one more station Morecambe to Heysham? Would solve these issues.

It's kind of a chicken and egg problem. With only 1tpd, you'd struggle to keep up route knowledge if you had many more traincrew signing the route.

And whilst you say one station, it's a bit more complex than that, because there is a ground frame involved with an unusual method of operation. Unlike the Morecambe services, where if route learning is required there are 20+ trains a day to choose from, if you wanted to run more intensive training you'd need a significant amount of ECS 'dead' mileage just to get a unit there.

Overall not a simple exercise by any means and so it's easy to see how something like this would be put on the backburner.

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?
(Rather than people using the train solely to cover the track and will simply return on the same train)

Sometimes if there is a staff shortage, it's better to cancel the services which are low demand (easy enough to put any genuine passengers in a taxi from Morecambe to Heysham or vice-versa) then to cancel a service which might affect more passengers. (I.e. London Northwestern putting buses on the Abbey Line)

In my experience, every time I've been on the train it has been overwhelmingly 'legitimate' passengers with at most a handful of 'bashers'. That said, with only ~10k pax/year pre-Covid, it has never been a very busy flow.

 

[306024]

It's quite difficult to do quickly as staff need to be taken off normal duties to learn the route, and maintaining a larger pool of qualified staff with such an infrequent service would also be challenging. Not impossible though.

It‘s difficult to explain just how big an effect Covid has had on crew training, but one thing that didn’t change was staff continued to retire. Many TOCs are now playing catch up to bridge the gap, which for some is not a quick fix.

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?

About 3 years ago pre-Covid about 20 passengers got off the train for the ferry we were catching. No idea if that is typical though, only done it once.

 

[Ken H]

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?
(Rather than people using the train solely to cover the track and will simply return on the same train)

Sometimes if there is a staff shortage, it's better to cancel the services which are low demand (easy enough to put any genuine passengers in a taxi from Morecambe to Heysham or vice-versa) then to cancel a service which might affect more passengers. (I.e. London Northwestern putting buses on the Abbey Line)

So what did the train crew do while the cancelled train didnt run to heysham. I will bet they sat at Morecambe and drank tea. Because they would be needed to take the train back to lancaster.

 

[6Gman]

Would it be difficult to train the staff on just one more station Morecambe to Heysham? Would solve these issues.

But that would mean the driver being trained being taken off booked work plus potentially his "trainer".

So, potentially, several trains cancelled so that the relatively small number of Heysham passengers can avoid using a bus (or taxi).

 

[jnjkerbin]

I was actually caught up in this today, returning from the IoM. I'd estimate c.20 passengers who were looking to get the train. A few chose to arrange taxis to Lancaster (though they may well have done this anyway, given that the ferry berthed nearly an hour before the train was due to depart).

In the event, maybe 16 of us were picked up by a coach, which dropped off around a dozen passengers going to the island a few minutes after the train was meant to have left. Funnily enough, despite everyone wanting to go to Lancaster, the coach ran via Morecambe, passing the 156 sat in the platform waiting it's booked departure time. We arrived at Lancaster a few minutes after the train was due to, although a few minutes before it actually did due to it being held up at the junction waiting for the late running London train to pass.

 

[philthetube]

So what did the train crew do while the cancelled train didnt run to heysham. I will bet they sat at Morecambe and drank tea. Because they would be needed to take the train back to lancaster.

What else would you expect them to do, I cant imagine them going for a dip today.

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?
(Rather than people using the train solely to cover the track and will simply return on the same train)

Sometimes if there is a staff shortage, it's better to cancel the services which are low demand (easy enough to put any genuine passengers in a taxi from Morecambe to Heysham or vice-versa) then to cancel a service which might affect more passengers. (I.e. London Northwestern putting buses on the Abbey Line)

average 13.5 each way daily not too bad, not that many track bashers about.

 

[janb]

Funnily enough, despite everyone wanting to go to Lancaster, the coach ran via Morecambe, passing the 156 sat in the platform waiting it's booked departure time.

The past 2 days have been done by Archway Travel (Fleetwood based) rather than the usual KT Coaches/Travellers Choice, and todays driver clearly wasn't familiar with the area as I had to give him directions from Morecambe to Heysham Port, so he probably felt comfortable just retracing his steps.

 

[Class800]

The past 2 days have been done by Archway Travel (Fleetwood based) rather than the usual KT Coaches/Travellers Choice, and todays driver clearly wasn't familiar with the area as I had to give him directions from Morecambe to Heysham Port, so he probably felt comfortable just retracing his steps.

No Sat Nav?

 

[38Cto15E]

Fortunately I did the Heysham Branch for the first time about a month ago.

 

[zero]

Well the entire Morecambe branch has now failed for today. And 2H06 from Leeds seems to have been stuck outside Carnforth for half an hour.

As the main point of my trip was to do the Heysham branch plus some other diversionary routes, there was no reason to go if I'd have to take a bus or taxi. So I've cancelled the IOM bit and will go there later on this year, probably by plane. Now that I've done this, the Heysham train will probably run on my dates...

 

[D6975]

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?
(Rather than people using the train solely to cover the track and will simply return on the same train)

When I did the line I was the only passenger who went straight back, the rest (about 30) went for the ferry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm genuinely surprised it's that well used. As it's in marginal time (just by missing out a Morecambe-Lancaster-Morecambe round-trip, basically), and the line has to exist because of the nuclear power station (nobody wants spent fuel rods being driven on the Bay Gateway and crashed into, even less so local roads before that was built) it could well be profitable at that level of usage. The marginal cost of running it is basically just the lost fares from having a gap in the Lancaster-Morecambe timetable, which could actually be zero, plus maintaining the station which is just a platform with little else, so painting it once every couple of years? Potentially cheaper, as such, than a shuttle bus.

I'd have thought most foot passengers flew these days.

 

[Taunton]

The past 2 days have been done by Archway Travel (Fleetwood based) rather than the usual KT Coaches/Travellers Choice, and todays driver clearly wasn't familiar with the area as I had to give him directions from Morecambe to Heysham Port, so he probably felt comfortable just retracing his steps.

Am I the only one to read here that, while a (Skipton?) train driver, who normally continues to drive the train from Morecambe to Heysham, under the guidance of another driver from Barrow, and may well have done so periodically for years, is nevertheless judged insufficiently competent to know the line on their own - meanwhile the substitute bus then provided is organised by the railway from a far distant point whose driver has no idea where they are going, and that's apparently OK?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does highlight flaws in the UK's rigid route knowledge system when compared to the German Buchfahrplan system, but given how that system has done well for safety it'd be a brave man to change it.

 

[craigybagel]

Am I the only one to read here that, while a (Skipton?) train driver, who normally continues to drive the train from Morecambe to Heysham, under the guidance of another driver from Barrow, and may well have done so periodically for years, is nevertheless judged insufficiently competent to know the line on their own - meanwhile the substitute bus then provided is organised by the railway from a far distant point whose driver has no idea where they are going, and that's apparently OK?

It does highlight flaws in the UK's rigid route knowledge system when compared to the German Buchfahrplan system, but given how that system has done well for safety it'd be a brave man to change it.

To be fair, as railways go this particular stretch is pretty complicated. Do the more relaxed rules in Germany apply to single track lines featuring ground frames and token working?

 

[muz379]

Am I the only one to read here that, while a (Skipton?) train driver, who normally continues to drive the train from Morecambe to Heysham, under the guidance of another driver from Barrow, and may well have done so periodically for years, is nevertheless judged insufficiently competent to know the line on their own - meanwhile the substitute bus then provided is organised by the railway from a far distant point whose driver has no idea where they are going, and that's apparently OK?

I dont think there is any route conducting involved , the only time a driver would be route conducted is if the traction involved was not signed by the route conducting driver . Otherwise if you sign the route and the traction you are in the seat .

That being said , rail replacement bus drivers not having an idea of their route is an issue that the railway really should do something to address .

 

[Bletchleyite]

That being said , rail replacement bus drivers not having an idea of their route is an issue that the railway really should do something to address .

I think I know the answer, but it's long surprised me that guards don't conduct RRBs, both for revenue and to ensure they don't get lost, miss out stations etc.

 

[SteveyBee131]

I think I know the answer, but it's long surprised me that guards don't conduct RRBs, both for revenue and to ensure they don't get lost, miss out stations etc.

I'm no expert, but knowing the route by rail is a completely different kettle of fish to knowing the route by road in a bus.

Say for this example a Skipton guard knows where the stations are by rail (and yes I know there's a lot more to it not the subject of this thread), doesn't mean he's necessarily ever been to Morecambe and Heysham enough, if at all, to know how to direct an unfamiliar bus driver on a rail-replacement.