Heysham cancellations

[philthetube]

To paraphrase Elaine Paige and Barbra Dickson, you know me so well !



That's good news.

I do think that more could be made of the route, for example, having a connection to both of the daily ferries.

The vast majority of foot passengers use that one as it is conveniently timed, arriving in Douglas when hotels are ready to accept guests and leaving after breakfast.

 

[chiltern trev]

The Isle of Man Steam Packet Company service from Heysham to Douglas is a one boat Ro-Pax which does two round trips every 24 hours.
Heysham depart 02.15 and 14.15
Douglas depart 08.45 and 19.45

hence the rail service being to/from Heysham around 13.00-14.00.

 

[dk1]

The Isle of Man Steam Packet Company service from Heysham to Douglas is a one boat Ro-Pax which does two round trips every 24 hours.
Heysham depart 02.15 and 14.15
Douglas depart 08.45 and 19.45

hence the rail service being to/from Heysham around 13.00-14.00.

I think as BR rail staff we still get priv travel from here as well as Liverpool.

 

[SeanG]

That is correct.

The boat is at Heysham 12:15 to 14:15 and so the train arriving approx 13:15 is ideal for both sets of passengers both going across and coming across.

 

[craigybagel]

I think as BR rail staff we still get priv travel from here as well as Liverpool.

Only Safeguarded ex BR staff though - nothing for New Entrants.

I do think that more could be made of the route, for example, having a connection to both of the daily ferries.

If you think the current services are quiet, can you imagine what a 2am service would be like?! In any case, where would you run it to? The old overnight service to Fishguard used to work because there was only one logical direction to go in, and the timings were such that there were relatively ok connections in both directions at Cardiff and/or Swansea. Where would an overnight Heysham service run to and from?

 

[yorksrob]

Only Safeguarded ex BR staff though - nothing for New Entrants.

If you think the current services are quiet, can you imagine what a 2am service would be like?! In any case, where would you run it to? The old overnight service to Fishguard used to work because there was only one logical direction to go in, and the timings were such that there were relatively ok connections in both directions at Cardiff and/or Swansea. Where would an overnight Heysham service run to and from?

I think of you ran it through to Manchester, for example, it could double up as a night inter-regional service of the type TPE used to run through the night until recently. It could also connect with these services if they were resumed, bringing in the larger Northern conurbations.

 

[dk1]

Only Safeguarded ex BR staff though - nothing for New Entrants.

Cheers, I'm safeguarded

 

[Deafdoggie]

How difficult can it be to use a satnav designed for large vehicles and program a route including all the stations? OK, Satnavs aren't infallible, but should be adequate in most cases.

Very easy. As long as it's programmed correctly!

 

[Bletchleyite]

How difficult can it be to use a satnav designed for large vehicles and program a route including all the stations? OK, Satnavs aren't infallible, but should be adequate in most cases.

Coaching is run on very tight margins, and so coach companies are usually too tight to provide one!

 

[zwk500]

Coaching is run on very tight margins, and so coach companies are usually too tight to provide one!

Could the TOC specify that they require coaches with a suitable navigation aid? Is the RRB contract valuable enough that the companies would get a handful of devices in to issue when RRBs are called for?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Could the TOC specify that they require coaches with a suitable navigation aid? Is the RRB contract valuable enough that the companies would get a handful of devices in to issue when RRBs are called for?

Absolutely not. It's one of the lowest paid contracts!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit it'd be handy if Google/Waze would include more settings for vehicle type (e.g. height). They probably have the data.

 

[83G/84D]

Well the entire Morecambe branch has now failed for today. And 2H06 from Leeds seems to have been stuck outside Carnforth for half an hour.

As the main point of my trip was to do the Heysham branch plus some other diversionary routes, there was no reason to go if I'd have to take a bus or taxi. So I've cancelled the IOM bit and will go there later on this year, probably by plane. Now that I've done this, the Heysham train will probably run on my dates...

I tried to do the line to Heysham about 3 years ago and failed because the train was cancelled, reason given was no train crew.

 

[randyrippley]

................... Where would an overnight Heysham service run to and from?

only one logical answer: Liverpool
More Manx live there than on the island

If Heysham nuclear power station closes I could see it closing, but provided that remains open then I can't see it. As 7 new nuclear stations have been announced, and building them on the existing sites is going to involve less NIMBY friction, that's years off.

Heysham 3 was intended to go on the golf course, but allegedly is blocked by the presence of a fault line - though the story does change.
But in the meantime you've got all the club members hanging on for a massive windfall payment when the course gets purchased. Could be a long wait!

 

[craigybagel]

I think of you ran it through to Manchester, for example, it could double up as a night inter-regional service of the type TPE used to run through the night until recently. It could also connect with these services if they were resumed, bringing in the larger Northern conurbations.

only one logical answer: Liverpool
More Manx live there than on the island

Assuming a departure time midway between the arrival and departure of the ferry, you'd end up arriving in either Manchester or Liverpool at around 3 am. Is there really a market for that kind of travel? Especially bearing in mind how much it would get in the way of things like overnight engineering work. It would be a nightmare trying to diagram it efficiently for the crews as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming a departure time midway between the arrival and departure of the ferry, you'd end up arriving in either Manchester or Liverpool at around 3 am. Is there really a market for that kind of travel? Especially bearing in mind how much it would get in the way of things like overnight engineering work. It would be a nightmare trying to diagram it efficiently for the crews as well.

I rather doubt it - and as Lancaster doesn't have an out of hours exit it would either not be able to stop there for passengers or they'd need to staff it overnight for one* train. I bet that one is mostly freight and cars.

* Upside would be the late TPE from Manchester that was meant to stop there but terminates at Preston instead could, though it's not running at all at the moment.

 

[yorksrob]

Assuming a departure time midway between the arrival and departure of the ferry, you'd end up arriving in either Manchester or Liverpool at around 3 am. Is there really a market for that kind of travel? Especially bearing in mind how much it would get in the way of things like overnight engineering work. It would be a nightmare trying to diagram it efficiently for the crews as well.

I rather doubt it - and as Lancaster doesn't have an out of hours exit it would either not be able to stop there for passengers or they'd need to staff it overnight for one* train. I bet that one is mostly freight and cars.

* Upside would be the late TPE from Manchester that was meant to stop there but terminates at Preston instead could, though it's not running at all at the moment.

TPE used to run about every two hours throughout the night on the TPE core as I recall. Don't know when they stopped it, but assume it served some sort of a market.

 

[craigybagel]

TPE used to run about every two hours throughout the night on the TPE core as I recall. Don't know when they stopped it, but assume it served some sort of a market.

Indeed they did - but I would think it's a safe assumption that the combination of Manchester Airport and the cities of Manchester and Leeds make for a much bigger market then Heysham.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed they did - but I would think it's a safe assumption that the combination of Manchester Airport and the cities of Manchester and Leeds make for a much bigger market then Heysham.

Maybe, but if you terminated the night time Heysham service at Manchester Airport, you could both connect Lancaster, Preston and Bolton to the airport, as well as linking in to those other night time services.

 

[Phil56]

Maybe, but if you terminated the night time Heysham service at Manchester Airport, you could both connect Lancaster, Preston and Bolton to the airport, as well as linking in to those other night time services.

And "overnight" airport services are already lacking - you can't get a train for the early morning MAN departures from Lancaster, nor a train back to Lancaster for the last arrivals of the day into MAN.

 

[Deafdoggie]

TPE used to run about every two hours throughout the night on the TPE core as I recall. Don't know when they stopped it, but assume it served some sort of a market.

The clue here is "Used to" if they were popular they still would be.
And that is despite Manchester Airport being busier than Heysham.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TPE used to run about every two hours throughout the night on the TPE core as I recall. Don't know when they stopped it, but assume it served some sort of a market.

When there was one, I used the 0130ish Manchester to Blackpool N once, and it was mostly staff.

I do wonder if the change from "pubs shut at 11:20, clubs shut at 2" may have ruined the economics of such trains. If you just go to the pub you might drift away whenever your last train is, if you go clubbing now you're likely there until the first train, possibly even later if going for breakfast first. Those two things made a 2345ish or 0230ish last train more economical. Even looking at Euston, the 0134 is typically pretty quiet*, the busy ones with drinkers are in the 2200-0001 ish range, while I also bet the first one of the morning is also busy with zombified clubbers though I've never done that.

Going the other way the 0330 MKC-Euston is hardly empty, but a lot of that one is traincrew, Tube workers and other "key workers", there will be almost no drinkers.

* Though admittedly it doesn't operate on a Saturday due to permanent engineering blockades. However, when it did (early 2000s) it wasn't busy then either, and even the 0015 (last Sat train at present) isn't the busy one now, it's earlier on.

 

[Grumpy Git]

And "overnight" airport services are already lacking - you can't get a train for the early morning MAN departures from Lancaster, nor a train back to Lancaster for the last arrivals of the day into MAN.

You can't even get a train back to Liverpool for the last arrivals of the day into MAN.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can't even get a train back to Liverpool for the last arrivals of the day into MAN.

You'll see that all over the place, it's an issue at low-cost airline bases because they tend to mean very early starts/late finishes for maximum aircraft utilisation.

It's probably not one it makes sense for the railway to cater for, to be honest. Most people prefer a taxi or a hotel. There was once an 0315 ish Airport-Liverpool, I did use it once and it was nearly empty.

 

[yorksrob]

It seemed to be bustituted for ages and ages, so maybe people have up on them.

 

[Phil56]

You'll see that all over the place, it's an issue at low-cost airline bases because they tend to mean very early starts/late finishes for maximum aircraft utilisation.

It's probably not one it makes sense for the railway to cater for, to be honest. Most people prefer a taxi or a hotel. There was once an 0315 ish Airport-Liverpool, I did use it once and it was nearly empty.

So by that logic, there shouldn't even be a railway station at MAN if "most people prefer a taxi or a hotel"! Anyway, it's highly unlikely that both the outward and the return flight would both be outside current rail operating hours, but passengers aren't going to use the train for only one way, so the lack of a decent full timetable actually pushes traffic on to roads in the form of taxis and private cars for both directions even if the train "could have been used" for one way!

And the vast majority of daytime passengers are also using low-cost airlines, so, again, why bother with trains at all? It's not as if there are only a tiny number of early morning/late night flights - there are lots of them. My personal opinion is that if taxpayers are footing the bill for a railway line/station at the airport, then the railway should provide a service that fits the flight times, especially given that we're all being told to use cars less!

 

[randyrippley]

Anyone from the island wanting to fly is going to go via Ronaldsway to Manchester / Liverpool / London / Dublin, not via a ferry and train.
A Heysham-airport service is a waste of resources.
If you go back to the 90's when the shuttle buses ran, the midnight arrival at Heysham usually generated enough passengers for one or two double deckers, which connected with a southbound train at Lancaster. I presume a London service, but I'm guessing

 

[73128]

The train was cancelled and replaced by buses last Monday (1 August) and I'm guessing from what the coach driver said that this was a regular occurrence. Around a couple of dozen arrived at Heysham and a dozen or so left on the coach (after several others had taken taxis). More were picked up en route to Lancaster.

 

[craigybagel]

The train was cancelled and replaced by buses last Monday (1 August) and I'm guessing from what the coach driver said that this was a regular occurrence. Around a couple of dozen arrived at Heysham and a dozen or so left on the coach (after several others had taken taxis). More were picked up en route to Lancaster.

Indeed my mother was amongst them. Apparently they were told it would be quite a wait for the RRB to arrive so she was one of those who shared a taxi.

 

[Kite159]

Indeed my mother was amongst them. Apparently they were told it would be quite a wait for the RRB to arrive so she was one of those who shared a taxi.

Win-Win for the rail industry as they can claim that they didn't complete the journey by rail when they submit delay repay claims and refuse to pay out without a long fight.