Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates

[eastdyke]

Everything with regards Railway Operation has been completed. Just a lot of railway junk needs tidying, but nothing needs doing that will improve the running of trains.

Thanks, it's not clear that includes the 'Safety Refuge' at the southern end of the new platform. Has that been completed?

Upthread at post #2026 @Killingworth provided pictures of the state as at 21st August.

 

[Topological]

Have all other elements of the scheme been cancelled?

My understanding was that there were tentative plans for the West end?

 

[Killingworth]

Thanks, it's not clear that includes the 'Safety Refuge' at the southern end of the new platform. Has that been completed?

Upthread at post #2026 @Killingworth provided pictures of the state as at 21st August.

Remarkably, all the Dore platform areas were tarmacked on Friday, including access to the safety refuge. It is lit, currently 24/7, as are the emergency exit ramps at both ends of the old platform (inconspicuous tubes mounted within the lower side of the handrails) that was for 152 years Platform 1, but now Platform 2. The ramp at the north end is well lit already from both the platform and the car park.

Part of the station car park is still fenced off for completion of final snagging work and restoration of kerbs and planted areas - plus clearing lots of bits and pieces along the track side.

The West View Lane site was originally to be complete by August 2023 but is, as has already been explained, badly behind schedule. This element delivered the operational Dore loop in March but it was a very close run thing. The residents in neighbouring properties had been told landscaping should start in October 2023. The pictures below are how far it's got by today with Saturday/Sunday night work continuing. Realistically that site won't be all tidied up ready for landscaping before 2025. The residents aren't at all happy and it seems they won't get any compensation for all the disruption they've had to endure.



The Scheme has been successful because;

1. trains can pass on the redoubled section between Dore West and Dore Station Junctions - first supposed to be delivered by Railtrack in 2003/4
2. trains, in particular freight, can now wait in the Dore loop for an onward path to/from the Midland Main Line thus easing delays on both routes
3. the extensive resignalling work must be making a positive difference.
4. The Bamford loop is not being used as much as it was suggested it would be at the 2016 public inquiry

However, passengers between Sheffield and Manchester have seen no extra services, frequent delays and cancellations (1 in3 on Northern stopping services this Sunday, 7th in a row) and no perceptible improvements in punctuality.

It has supposedly cost £145m. Um, I wonder what has been swept into that budget? Renewal of headspans at Davenport? Looks outside the scheme's scope to me, but over the last 25 years how much of the planning expenditure has gone into other budgets?

The route and train carrying capacity is about to emerge in a new thread

 

[eastdyke]

Remarkably, all the Dore platform areas were tarmacked on Friday, including access to the safety refuge. It is lit, currently 24/7, as are the emergency exit ramps at both ends of the old platform (inconspicuous tubes mounted within the lower side of the handrails) that was for 152 years Platform 1, but now Platform 2. The ramp at the north end is well lit already from both the platform and the car park.

Part of the station car park is still fenced off for completion of final snagging work and restoration of kerbs and planted areas - plus clearing lots of bits and pieces along the track side.

Thanks.
I should be able to swing by in the next 2/3 weeks so will welcome a look at the finished job
Is there a good pub near to the station?

 

[GardenRail]

Thanks.
I should be able to swing by in the next 2/3 weeks so will welcome a look at the finished job
Is there a good pub near to the station?

Right next door, The Summer House. Good snap too.

 

[eastdyke]

Great, thanks.
I'll not need my tin!!

 

[eastwestdivide]

New footbridge near Hathersage now fully open. Photos courtesy of my partner who's out there at the moment

 

[Trainman40083]

Remarkably, all the Dore platform areas were tarmacked on Friday, including access to the safety refuge. It is lit, currently 24/7, as are the emergency exit ramps at both ends of the old platform (inconspicuous tubes mounted within the lower side of the handrails) that was for 152 years Platform 1, but now Platform 2. The ramp at the north end is well lit already from both the platform and the car park.

Part of the station car park is still fenced off for completion of final snagging work and restoration of kerbs and planted areas - plus clearing lots of bits and pieces along the track side.

The West View Lane site was originally to be complete by August 2023 but is, as has already been explained, badly behind schedule. This element delivered the operational Dore loop in March but it was a very close run thing. The residents in neighbouring properties had been told landscaping should start in October 2023. The pictures below are how far it's got by today with Saturday/Sunday night work continuing. Realistically that site won't be all tidied up ready for landscaping before 2025. The residents aren't at all happy and it seems they won't get any compensation for all the disruption they've had to endure.

View attachment 166886 View attachment 166887

The Scheme has been successful because;

1. trains can pass on the redoubled section between Dore West and Dore Station Junctions - first supposed to be delivered by Railtrack in 2003/4
2. trains, in particular freight, can now wait in the Dore loop for an onward path to/from the Midland Main Line thus easing delays on both routes
3. the extensive resignalling work must be making a positive difference.
4. The Bamford loop is not being used as much as it was suggested it would be at the 2016 public inquiry

However, passengers between Sheffield and Manchester have seen no extra services, frequent delays and cancellations (1 in3 on Northern stopping services this Sunday, 7th in a row) and no perceptible improvements in punctuality.

It has supposedly cost £145m. Um, I wonder what has been swept into that budget? Renewal of headspans at Davenport? Looks outside the scheme's scope to me, but over the last 25 years how much of the planning expenditure has gone into other budgets?

The route and train carrying capacity is about to emerge in a new thread

I'd wager there is little chance of extra passenger services between Sheffield and Manchester . Probably lack of suitable rolling stock, plus lack of capacity in Sheffield and on the run from Stockport to Manchester.

 

[Llandudno]

I'd wager there is little chance of extra passenger services between Sheffield and Manchester . Probably lack of suitable rolling stock, plus lack of capacity in Sheffield and on the run from Stockport to Manchester.

and insufficient train crew to staff them….!

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for the updates

Just a gentle reminder that any discussion of possible new services would belong in a separate thread please; if anyone wishes to create one, or if there is one already, feel free to link to it from here.

 

[Roger B]

New footbridge near Hathersage now fully open. Photos courtesy of my partner who's out there at the moment
View attachment 166924
View attachment 166926
View attachment 166925

Many thanks for these. Loving the look of that. I'm curious as to why there's no provision for people who struggle with stairs - on most recent foot bridges there are long ramps provided? Apologies if this has already been covered upthread.

 

[Killingworth]

Thanks for the updates

Just a gentle reminder that any discussion of possible new services would belong in a separate thread please; if anyone wishes to create one, or if there is one already, feel free to link to it from here.

In hand, watch this space

 

[eastwestdivide]

Many thanks for these. Loving the look of that. I'm curious as to why there's no provision for people who struggle with stairs - on most recent foot bridges there are long ramps provided? Apologies if this has already been covered upthread.

I think the approaches to it are rough footpaths, already unsuitable, so no need for accessible provision?
Stile at the entrance to the footpath from the main road.

 

[plugwash]

Curious that the headspan work is headlined Hope Valley. Davenport is in Stockport, Greater Manchester on the Buxton line.

IIRC, despite being historically part of the buxton line, the lines through davenport/woodsmore/hazel grove are labeled on trackmaps as "up hope valley" and "down hope valley", which suggests to me that NR may think of them as part of the hope valley line.

 

[Killingworth]

I think the approaches to it are rough footpaths, already unsuitable, so no need for accessible provision?
Stile at the entrance to the footpath from the main road.

It was well covered at the 2016 public inquiry.

All but about 2 persons were in favour of a footpath diversion or even a closure. Land was offered for a diversion and organisations like the Ramblers and Friends of the Peak Park were in favour. Network Rail were trapped between conflicting objections, to closure, a new bridge or a diversion. Network Rail gave in to those resisting closure or diversion and to those opposing a standard bridge, especially with ramps! The points about users and access were well made. What is now there, after a closure of over 2 years, is a very expensive compromise. The Peak Park insisted on it reflecting the heritage of the line and to meld into its green surroundings.

 

[unlevel42]

IIRC, despite being historically part of the buxton line, the lines through davenport/woodsmore/hazel grove are labeled on trackmaps as "up hope valley" and "down hope valley", which suggests to me that NR may think of them as part of the hope valley line.

There there is only one station in the Hope Valley-and that is Hope.
The footbridge mentioned as well as Bamford, Hathersage and Grindleford are in the Derwent Valley.
Edale is in Edale.

 

[Killingworth]

There there is only one station in the Hope Valley-and that is Hope.
The footbridge mentioned as well as Bamford, Hathersage and Grindleford are in the Derwent Valley.
Edale is in Edale.

True, but the Goyt and Sheaf Valleys also form major parts of the route between Sheffield and Manchester. Most of the expenditure on this project was probably in the Sheaf Valley.

Hopefully the capacity has been improved over the old Dore and Chinley railway - but like with road improvements it's thrown the congestion to the next bottlenecks in both directions!

Thanks for the updates

Just a gentle reminder that any discussion of possible new services would belong in a separate thread please; if anyone wishes to create one, or if there is one already, feel free to link to it from here.

New thread set up here; https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/manchester-sheffield-passenger-capacity.275149/

As we approach the end of this thread here's a reminder of what was causing a lot of the bottlenecks on the Hope Valley line. Dore South Junction on the Midland Mainline.

The loaded aggregate train is exiting Dore Tunnel over Dore South Junction to go south.

Prior to 25th March it might have had to wait at Dore West Junction, standing on the Hope Valley line until it got a path to first cross westbound Hope Valley traffic - then northbound MML traffic to slip into a gap in the southbound traffic. There's an almost 90 degree uphill turn for this. It's quite a pull with a loaded train from a standing start.

It was similar in reverse with any delayed train blocking the MML, although a train from the south doesn't have to cross traffic.

Today trains from either direction can stand in the extended Dore chord that's now the Dore loop.

Moving the Manchester/York signalling boundary from Dore West to Earles must also be making control and regulation much better?

 

[GardenRail]

Moving the Manchester/York signalling boundary from Dore West to Earles must also be making control and regulation much better?
View attachment 167068

It's made it a lot easier because we can see what's coming, sooner. Just wish the signalling at Dore station was bi-directional....

Brilliant picture.

 

[Killingworth]

It's made it a lot easier because we can see what's coming, sooner. Just wish the signalling at Dore station was bi-directional....

Brilliant picture.

Totally agree. At the public inquiry one of the documents left in the very large box, possibly inadvertently, showed that as an early option. 3 local organisations contributed at the inquiry and it was raised and swiftly brushed aside.

There have been at least 3 incidents of which I've been made aware since opening on 25th March where bi-directional options would have saved very many hours of delays knocking on across the network. There have probably been more.

One SPAD, just beyond Dore station Platform 2, all eastbound trains stopped for 3 hours. Simple to resolve. Take Dore West Junction and through Platform 1 to Dore Station Junction. The track's there but apparently interlocking and signalling won't allow it and rules forbid it.

 

[zwk500]

One SPAD, just beyond Dore station Platform 2, all eastbound trains stopped for 3 hours. Simple to resolve. Take Dore West Junction and through Platform 1 to Dore Station Junction. The track's there but apparently interlocking and signalling won't allow it and rules forbid it.

I doubt designing acceptable overlaps for bi-di on this section would have been 'simple', even though I do agree the westbound line at the very least should have been reversible.

 

[Killingworth]

I doubt designing acceptable overlaps for bi-di on this section would have been 'simple', even though I do agree the westbound line at the very least should have been reversible.

Westbound crossover was removed as part of the work but yes, if it were still available a Nothern stopper could wait in Dore station to let a TPE pass. That's rather than leaving Sheffield and standing in the Heeley loop to let a selection of other services have priority on the MML.

When work gets started on electrification all may be reviewed again.

 

[zwk500]

Westbound crossover was removed as part of the work but yes, if it were still available a Nothern stopper could wait in Dore station to let a TPE pass. That's rather than leaving Sheffield and standing in the Heeley loop to let a selection of other services have priority on the MML.

When work gets started on electrification all may be reviewed again.

Sorry, i was not suggesting any additional pointwork. Only that a route for trains towards Sheffield was available using the existing crossover at Dore West and taking advantage of the ladder at Dore Station jn to rejoin the correct line.

 

[Killingworth]

Sorry, i was not suggesting any additional pointwork. Only that a route for trains towards Sheffield was available using the existing crossover at Dore West and taking advantage of the ladder at Dore Station jn to rejoin the correct line.

That would have resolved the eastbound SPAD case, certainly cutting delays considerably.

The other two were westbound, one caused by a failure of the new points into the Dore loop. The other was a failed train unable to proceed westwards out of Dore. There used to be a crossover beside Totley Tunnel East box that could have been used to pass them wrong line. (It would still be possible, but wrong line through Totley Tunnel to the Grindleford crossover would be a much bigger section.)

 

[bluelagoon8951]

Service patterns seem to vary.

Not so long ago, pairs of 331s were regularly running hazel grove to blackpool. Right now though the hazel grove terminators are only running as far as picadilly and they seem to be using 15x for some reason.

it's because the buxtons/hazel groves are tied together - a hazel grove becomes a buxton, then a hazel grove, then a buxton.

 

[Killingworth]

News from the construction sites - due to machine failures on 5 weekends since August further contingency weekends are now planned until 16/17th November at West View Lane. Completion will now stretch over the Christmas weekends into January. Dore station car park will not fully reopen before then either.

It's probably like this on many rail projects but it does the railway industry no good in local communities when work supposed to be completed in August 2023 and landscaped that October is still incomplete a year later. That said all involved with such civil engineering work will empathise with those having to constantly rejig their work schedules.

It's been very interesting watching this evolve over the last decade.

I've found the optional crossover that appeared in the documentation for the public inquiry in 2016.

 

[507020]

I've found the optional crossover that appeared in the documentation for the public inquiry in 2016.

The question is why wasn’t this included in the scheme as built? Replacing the removed track for the single lead in addition to the redoubling would have made both platforms bidirectional, which is a very convenient place for late expresses to overtake the stopper and comparable to Hazel Grove.

Without bidirectional signalling of even the new platform by using the junction layouts, the scheme provides only the absolute bare minimum of resiliency. Throw in a late CrossCountry with the single lead and you could have 3 or 4 trains queueing blocking the MML. It explains why frequency can’t be increased when that has to be absorbed first.

Up is always to St Pancras, so down is both to Sheffield and the Hope Valley via the Dore curve, so a train arriving at Chinley is equivalent to one from the main line via Miller’s Dale, but it’s unclear which is which between Dore West and Dore Syation Junctions.

 

[GardenRail]

The question is why wasn’t this included in the scheme as built? Replacing the removed track for the single lead in addition to the redoubling would have made both platforms bidirectional, which is a very convenient place for late expresses to overtake the stopper and comparable to Hazel Grove.

Without bidirectional signalling of even the new platform by using the junction layouts, the scheme provides only the absolute bare minimum of resiliency. Throw in a late CrossCountry with the single lead and you could have 3 or 4 trains queueing blocking the MML. It explains why frequency can’t be increased when that has to be absorbed first.

Up is always to St Pancras, so down is both to Sheffield and the Hope Valley via the Dore curve, so a train arriving at Chinley is equivalent to one from the main line via Miller’s Dale, but it’s unclear which is which between Dore West and Dore Syation Junctions.

As always, cost.

 

[Killingworth]

As always, cost.

Points are very expensive. Manufacture, installation and maintenance plus operational factors. I hadn't fully realised although it's obvious when you know, that each crossover requires specialist design to take account of curve, cant and intended service speed. They don't come off the shelf. Some may not be made in the UK and they can't be delivered within weeks of an order especially where high speeds form part of the specification.

'Trains delayed/cancelled due to points failure' happens too often. Add another set to go wrong? Another operational risk to be avoided.

 

[edwin_m]

Points are very expensive. Manufacture, installation and maintenance plus operational factors. I hadn't fully realised although it's obvious when you know, that each crossover requires specialist design to take account of curve, cant and intended service speed. They don't come off the shelf. Some may not be made in the UK and they can't be delivered within weeks of an order especially where high speeds form part of the specification.

'Trains delayed/cancelled due to points failure' happens too often. Add another set to go wrong? Another operational risk to be avoided.

Not to mention all the extra signalling to control the crossover itself and the extra bi-directional routes. The amount of design and checking (by scarce and expensive people) is out of proportion to the extra hardware involved.

 

[Nottingham59]

Not to mention all the extra signalling to control the crossover itself and the extra bi-directional routes. The amount of design and checking (by scarce and expensive people) is out of proportion to the extra hardware involved.

But that's the logic that led Dore station to be singled all those years ago.