-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Hornby 2021 Range - Predictions, Announcement, and Discussion
- Thread starter Peter C
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Midday announcement so post april fool time,
Latest Hornby Engine Shed is out. It includes sections on the APT, Midland Pullman power cars (including top headlight), 9F and W1
Full Tilt! :: Hornby Hobbies
Full Tilt! :: Hornby Hobbies
Full Tilt!
lucy.westgate1 day ago
Comments
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Engine Shed. Soon we will be changing the clocks, and somehow we are already a quarter of the way through the year. As always, this month’s edition of the Engine Shed will be following the development of our latest models, which this month includes decoration samples of the Advanced Passenger Train, cab changes for the Midland Pullman power car, new renders and samples of the BR Standard 9F and a sample of the new W1 photographic grey livery.
It has been quite an exciting month here at Hornby. Not only has product development been progressing well, but there has been the surprise announcement of our upcoming model of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway locomotive, ‘Lion’. This is a model that will inevitably appeal to all of you who have appreciated Hornby’s ‘Rocket’ models and hopefully help generate further interest in modelling the crucial early stages of British steam. While we are not quite ready to show off images of our CAD at this time, the model is already looking well developed and the Engine Shed will be following its progression in future editions.
APT-P:
The Engine Shed has followed the progression of the APT for quite some time now and the latest exciting development has been the delivery of the decorated samples. We can now see for the first time a physical representation of the APT’s livery. There are still a few small improvements which will need to be reported back to the manufacturers however on inspection the models are looking quite stunning.
This overhead shot of Driving Trailer 370002 shows off some fine detail on the model including the etched roof grill and the printed destination board displayed in the first window.
Another photo of 370002 looking very sleek in its later livery which features a black ‘mask’ around the cab in a similar fashion to many modern-day airliners.
This image shows that the detail on the APT is not limited to just the front and sides. A distinctive feature of the APT was the use of articulated bogies which significantly reduced un-sprung mass, which not only allowed the APT to accelerate quicker, but also reduced wear on the rails. From a modellers perspective the articulated bogies also provide the added benefit of allowing impressively close coupling between coaches on the straights.
The power car of the APT, situated in the middle of the train, features impressive roof and pantogrpah detail. Of particualr note is the prototypically correct way in which the pantograh is fixed to the bogie rather than the body of the car allowing it to stay central and level while the body is tilting around bends, a feature that allowed the patograph to maintain better contact with the overhead powerline.
Midland Pullman HST Power Car:
In 2020 it was announced that Locomotive Services Limited would begin to operate a Midland Pullman service from St Pancras to Manchester Piccadilly along the Midland Main Line. This exciting new service, offering amazing views of the Derbyshire Peak District, combines the historic Midland Pullman with the Iconic Class 43 HST featuring a new Nanking Blue livery replicating that of the original Midland Pullmans.
Hornby announced the Midland Pullman as part of the 2021 range, and we can now confirm that this model will feature more than just a new livery. One of the identifying features of the actual modern day Midland Pullman Class 43 power cars is the inclusion of a central headlight at the top of the cab which the Hornby model will replicate as shown:
The additional of the headlight may only be a small change, but the process is far more complicated than simply drilling a new hole, instead involving new wiring, assembly processes, tooling inserts and the new CAD shown above, along with constant communication with the factories. I am sure you will agree that the effort is worth it as the headlight undoubtedly adds a uniqueness to the new modern day Midland Pullman power cars.
BR Standard Class 9F:
The BR Standard Class 9F is another model that is quickly becoming an Engine Shed regular and this month we can show you some renderings as well as the first physical 3D printed sample. We have included CAD images of the 9F in past editions, but they did not really do the 9F justice in terms of conveying the complexity of detail belonging to these models. These renders provide a much more realistic impression of how the final model will look, albeit without any artwork applied.
Alongside the renders we can also show the first stereo 3D printed sample of a generic 9F. This model has been produced to check that the overall proportions look right at 1:76.2 00 scale, something that can be difficult to assess in a virtual environment. Comparing the model below to the above renders you will spot that there are many missing features including smoke deflectors, handrails and steps along with other intricacies which are not needed at this early stage but will be evaluated in future samples.
This model shows a single chimney as opposed to the double ones that appear on our 2021 releases. This model does not intentionally relate to any particular sub class of the locomotive.
When designing the new 9Fs it was important that we should incorporate as many tooling inserts as is necessary to cater for future variants. Some of the options include various ATC/AWS set ups, early and late ash-pans, plus a plethora of regional variations for the Western Region 9Fs, and of course the different tender options covered in last month’s Engine Shed.
Gresley LNER W1:
This year Hornby announced it would produce a model of the LNER W1 ‘Hush Hush’ in the fictitious, but nevertheless mesmerising, photographic grey. In the years before colour photography the often dark, or even black liveries of steam locomotives made them very hard to photograph, particularly when looking to capture the engineering splendour of the locomotive for media promotions. Painting a locomotive in a mid-grey made it far easier for cameras to pick up this detail, and additionally different shades of grey could be used to draw attention to particularly impressive areas or to compensate for shadowed areas. A final common step was to paint over the background of a negative so that the locomotive was presented without distraction.
The practise of painting locomotives photographic grey was widely used up until the 1920s when more sensitive film allowed cameras to see the required detail without a special livery being applied. The Hornby model of the LNER W1 in Photographic Grey helps to capture those days resulting in a very unique but eye catching model.
This locomotive is available to pre-order now with deliveries expected later this year.
Wonder whether they will get the headlights right on the Blue Pullman - they are spaced differently and a slightly different shape to the usual two-pairs tooling which Hornby has (because they are basically the EMT 3-pairs type, with the innter pair blanked over).
They've not actually done the 3-pairs arrangement properly so far - the only model they've done which should have had it is the EMT livery one, and for that they used the original type lights.
I saw this yesterday and whilst I appreciate that Hornby are now adding the Midland Pullman HST's top headlight for the power cars, I can't help but feel as if they're essentially trying to say "Look at us, we announced something, people gave us feedback, and we've improved - team effort all, well done", when the situation is actually closer to "We announced an inaccurate product, people rightly called us out, we said we had no plans to correct it, and then we eventually made an accurate product with a stupidly high price". I suppose the higher price might now be justified by the addition of the light, but I don't think it is really.
And maybe this is just me being cynical, but I can't help but think this line is a comment aimed at people - including some on here - who said that the fix would be easy:
If you mean the central headlight above the front cab window, then they are adding it?
Midland Pullman HST Power Car:
In 2020 it was announced that Locomotive Services Limited would begin to operate a Midland Pullman service from St Pancras to Manchester Piccadilly along the Midland Main Line. This exciting new service, offering amazing views of the Derbyshire Peak District, combines the historic Midland Pullman with the Iconic Class 43 HST featuring a new Nanking Blue livery replicating that of the original Midland Pullmans.
Hornby announced the Midland Pullman as part of the 2021 range, and we can now confirm that this model will feature more than just a new livery. One of the identifying features of the actual modern day Midland Pullman Class 43 power cars is the inclusion of a central headlight at the top of the cab which the Hornby model will replicate as shown:
The additional of the headlight may only be a small change, but the process is far more complicated than simply drilling a new hole, instead involving new wiring, assembly processes, tooling inserts and the new CAD shown above, along with constant communication with the factories. I am sure you will agree that the effort is worth it as the headlight undoubtedly adds a uniqueness to the new modern day Midland Pullman power cars.
-Peter
So there has been positive indication from Hornby regarding providing that central headlight - it did look increasing like they are charging £££ more simply for the livery and were doing nothing make the model prototypical accurate.
They are now adding the central headlight, yes - though it should be noted that this change comes after the higher-than-other-Hornby-HSTs price tag was announced, and so Hornby now have a reason (and I use that term in more of a "devil's advocate" style) to put the price up.
-Peter
Rapido have issued details of their Titfield Thunderbolt range "with five new 1:76 scale models fully licensed by STUDIOCANAL.
...Thunderbolt, aka Liverpool & Manchester Railway 0-4-2 Lion
The Buffet Car, aka Great Eastern Railway Diagram 603 No. 8
No. W68740, GWR Diagram AA20 ‘Toad’ brakevan
‘Dan’s House’, aka GWR ‘Loriot Y’ No. 41989 with fictitious Victorian coach body
Pearce & Crump’s coach GAM338, aka Bedford OB with Duple Vista body
...available in three packs:
Pack 1 (SKU922001) is a standard pack, containing Thunderbolt, ‘Dan’s House’ and Loriot Y with No. W68740.
Pack 2 (SKU922002) is a deluxe pack, containing sound-fitted Thunderbolt, Dan’s House and Loriot with W67840 plus 4mm:1ft scale figures and commemorative booklet.
Pack 3 (SKU922003) contains the Buffet Car and No. W68740, plus 4mm:1ft scale figures.
The Bedford OB will be available as a standalone model in full Pearce & Crump livery (SKU920001).
Work is well underway with Lion, Loriot Y and ‘Dan’s House’ at an advanced stage of development.
All models will be in stock by March 6 2023, the 70th anniversary of the film’s release, although it is expected that some models will be available during 2022.
All models, including film and non-film versions will be available direct from Rapido Trains UK or through Rapido Trains UK stockists.
Identities and guises for non-Titfield models – as well as prices for all models – are still to be confirmed."
rapidotrains.co.uk
At the same timed they have mailed out a newsletter which explains they agreed the licencing for the models with STDIOCANAL over a number of months. STUDIOCANAL were subsquently approached by an another party who were rejected at a date shortly before Hornby announced Lion. Its noticeable that Rapido are showing initial CAD images while their has not even been a basic computer image from Hornby
...Thunderbolt, aka Liverpool & Manchester Railway 0-4-2 Lion
The Buffet Car, aka Great Eastern Railway Diagram 603 No. 8
No. W68740, GWR Diagram AA20 ‘Toad’ brakevan
‘Dan’s House’, aka GWR ‘Loriot Y’ No. 41989 with fictitious Victorian coach body
Pearce & Crump’s coach GAM338, aka Bedford OB with Duple Vista body
...available in three packs:
Pack 1 (SKU922001) is a standard pack, containing Thunderbolt, ‘Dan’s House’ and Loriot Y with No. W68740.
Pack 2 (SKU922002) is a deluxe pack, containing sound-fitted Thunderbolt, Dan’s House and Loriot with W67840 plus 4mm:1ft scale figures and commemorative booklet.
Pack 3 (SKU922003) contains the Buffet Car and No. W68740, plus 4mm:1ft scale figures.
The Bedford OB will be available as a standalone model in full Pearce & Crump livery (SKU920001).
Work is well underway with Lion, Loriot Y and ‘Dan’s House’ at an advanced stage of development.
All models will be in stock by March 6 2023, the 70th anniversary of the film’s release, although it is expected that some models will be available during 2022.
All models, including film and non-film versions will be available direct from Rapido Trains UK or through Rapido Trains UK stockists.
Identities and guises for non-Titfield models – as well as prices for all models – are still to be confirmed."
The Titfield Thunderbolt 70th Anniversary Range – Rapido Trains UK
rapidotrains.co.uk
At the same timed they have mailed out a newsletter which explains they agreed the licencing for the models with STDIOCANAL over a number of months. STUDIOCANAL were subsquently approached by an another party who were rejected at a date shortly before Hornby announced Lion. Its noticeable that Rapido are showing initial CAD images while their has not even been a basic computer image from Hornby
It is quite the announcement. I made a thread about it but it's interesting to compare the Rapido announcement to Hornby's.Rapido have issued details of their Titfield Thunderbolt range "with five new 1:76 scale models fully licensed by STUDIOCANAL.
...Thunderbolt, aka Liverpool & Manchester Railway 0-4-2 Lion
The Buffet Car, aka Great Eastern Railway Diagram 603 No. 8
No. W68740, GWR Diagram AA20 ‘Toad’ brakevan
‘Dan’s House’, aka GWR ‘Loriot Y’ No. 41989 with fictitious Victorian coach body
Pearce & Crump’s coach GAM338, aka Bedford OB with Duple Vista body
...available in three packs:
Pack 1 (SKU922001) is a standard pack, containing Thunderbolt, ‘Dan’s House’ and Loriot Y with No. W68740.
Pack 2 (SKU922002) is a deluxe pack, containing sound-fitted Thunderbolt, Dan’s House and Loriot with W67840 plus 4mm:1ft scale figures and commemorative booklet.
Pack 3 (SKU922003) contains the Buffet Car and No. W68740, plus 4mm:1ft scale figures.
The Bedford OB will be available as a standalone model in full Pearce & Crump livery (SKU920001).
Work is well underway with Lion, Loriot Y and ‘Dan’s House’ at an advanced stage of development.
All models will be in stock by March 6 2023, the 70th anniversary of the film’s release, although it is expected that some models will be available during 2022.
All models, including film and non-film versions will be available direct from Rapido Trains UK or through Rapido Trains UK stockists.
Identities and guises for non-Titfield models – as well as prices for all models – are still to be confirmed."
The Titfield Thunderbolt 70th Anniversary Range – Rapido Trains UK
At the same timed they have mailed out a newsletter which explains they agreed the licencing for the models with STDIOCANAL over a number of months. STUDIOCANAL were subsquently approached by an another party who were rejected at a date shortly before Hornby announced Lion. Its noticeable that Rapido are showing initial CAD images while their has not even been a basic computer image from Hornby
-Peter
reddragon
Established Member
Hattons have cancelled yet another Hornby pre-order of mine, not good as nobody else has done that to me.
The result from this thread was that Hattons opened up for pre-orders and then found they'd be receiving fewer models than people had ordered through them. Other shops haven't had this happen - or if they have, people have been very quiet about it or it's been on a small scale.
-Peter
greatvoyager
Established Member
Is 56025 “Smokey Joe” still available?
Yep
Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black
hattons.co.uk Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black
www.hattons.co.uk
-Peter
greatvoyager
Established Member
Thank you, that’s the cheapest price I’ve seen for it.Yep
Hattons have it in stock for £37, which is far too much for what the engine actually is; I wouldn't pay more than £25 for one personally. Hornby re-motored them a couple of years ago so now they have better slow-speed performance. I'll run mine at some point today and see if I can film it.Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black
hattons.co.uk Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black
-Peter
You're welcome
Hattons is good for deals on Hornby products. Kernow Model Centre is also good.
-Peter
greatvoyager
Established Member
That’s good to know, thanks for the info.You're welcome
Hattons is good for deals on Hornby products. Kernow Model Centre is also good.
-Peter
Hornby's been causing more trouble with pre-orders. Our own @reddragon will be able to speak from experience with regards to Hattons cancelling pre-orders; now it seems it's 'spread' to other retailers.
(This has all come from Jenny E. Kirk's "Monday Club" livestream, and I can't verify that all of this is 100% accurate. I'm more than happy to make any corrections as and when people raise issues. A link to the aforementioned livestream can be found here.)
From what people have been saying on the Monday Club livestream, people have had pre-orders cancelled for models with not just Hattons but also smaller model shops. Jenny, who runs the livestream, has said she's not bothering with trying to find another Hornby W1 model to pre-order, following a cancellation with Hattons. I expect this is a wide-ranging issue: many people in the livestream chat have said they've experienced similar things.
People are saying Hornby have been reducing the number of models retailers are allocated. This means the number of pre-orders made with the retailer is greater than the number of models said retailer can now sell, leading to cancellations. The main issue many have found with this, though, is that Hornby's own website - which, in theory, should be treated as a separate retailer by the company (indeed this was my understanding of the situation) - shows the models are in stock.
I can't think of much to write - do discuss, if there's anything left to say apart from that it's incredibly poor from Hornby. They've had a few issues with recent products - and not just those from the 2021 range, but the 2020 range as well - and it's not building the best of reputations to say the least.
-Peter
(This has all come from Jenny E. Kirk's "Monday Club" livestream, and I can't verify that all of this is 100% accurate. I'm more than happy to make any corrections as and when people raise issues. A link to the aforementioned livestream can be found here.)
From what people have been saying on the Monday Club livestream, people have had pre-orders cancelled for models with not just Hattons but also smaller model shops. Jenny, who runs the livestream, has said she's not bothering with trying to find another Hornby W1 model to pre-order, following a cancellation with Hattons. I expect this is a wide-ranging issue: many people in the livestream chat have said they've experienced similar things.
People are saying Hornby have been reducing the number of models retailers are allocated. This means the number of pre-orders made with the retailer is greater than the number of models said retailer can now sell, leading to cancellations. The main issue many have found with this, though, is that Hornby's own website - which, in theory, should be treated as a separate retailer by the company (indeed this was my understanding of the situation) - shows the models are in stock.
I can't think of much to write - do discuss, if there's anything left to say apart from that it's incredibly poor from Hornby. They've had a few issues with recent products - and not just those from the 2021 range, but the 2020 range as well - and it's not building the best of reputations to say the least.
-Peter
reddragon
Established Member
The rumour was, Hornby ordered say 500 locos, sold 400 to shops, but have sold more on their website than expected so are cancelling shop oreders to profiteer on their own website rather than order more or enough in the first place.
Poor show Hornby, my orders are changing as a result.
FGW HST or Class 800 anyone?
I hadn't heard that one before - thanks very much for sharing. Your example of only ordering 500 engines doesn't actually seem that unbelievable though nowadays, when the large companies will quite happily produce widely-wanted models in limited ranges at stupidly-high costs...
I've not yet ordered anything from the new Hornby 2021 range, but there are several models I have my eye on. I'm trying to weigh-up whether it's actually worth buying them and thus supporting Hornby and, to quote some of the people on the aforementioned livestream, 'support Hornby for their failure', or if I should find something else.
At the RRP, you'd be better off saving a little bit more and buying a 1:1 version! Even on Hattons pre-owned the other day, the GWR 800 went for >£200 for the two end cars and then £175 - the price they go for new - for the three centre cars. Stupid.
-Peter
Iskra
Established Member
Hornby could definitely handle things better, but I'm not sure I can blame them for putting their own business and customers first and making more profit in the process. Playing devils advocate; surely those that were willing to pay more should get dibs? However, yes they could just avoid the whole mess by ordering more in the first place or producing another batch.
It is also worth noting, that Jenny Kirk is employed by an organisation that has had a falling out with Hornby, so there could be a bit of an axe to grind there in terms of whipping-up negative sentiment for Hornby...
Which leads me nicely on to; anyone wanting a 80X should seriously consider this instead I think:
GM2000103 GWR Class 800 IET Premium Train Set (N Gauge) by Gaugemaster Collection with directional lighting. - Rails of Sheffield
Due to arrive in early 2021, these new N Scale (1:148) 5-car train packs are sure to be popular with modern image modellers. A companion Starter Set for each livery will also be available in the Gaugemaster Collection. The Class 800 AT300 is a bi-mode multiple unit built by Hitachi for Great...
railsofsheffield.com
GM2000104 LNER Class 800 Azuma Premium Train Set (N Gauge) by Gaugemaster Collection with directional lighting. - Rails of Sheffield
Due to arrive in June 2021, these new N Scale (1:148) 5-car train packs are sure to be popular with modern image modellers. A companion Starter Set for each livery will also be available in the Gaugemaster Collection. The Class 800 AT300 is a bi-mode multiple unit built by Hitachi for Great...
railsofsheffield.com
You raise a good point. I just think it's a bit odd for Hornby to go around cancelling pre-orders with retailers and then for their site to show those products as being in-stock, especially considering how much Hornby say they like supporting model shops. From what I've heard, the Hornby website receives an allocation of models in the same way as any other retailer - it's essentially at an arm's length away from Hornby as a central thing, if that makes sense - so I'm not saying it's not possible for Hornby to give themselves more models to make more of a profit, but I personally think it's unlikely.
I saw those a while ago - and I must admit they almost convinced me to make at least a small N gauge layout!
They look to be detailed little things as well.-Peter
Iskra
Established Member
I agree, it's certainly a little strange.You raise a good point. I just think it's a bit odd for Hornby to go around cancelling pre-orders with retailers and then for their site to show those products as being in-stock, especially considering how much Hornby say they like supporting model shops. From what I've heard, the Hornby website receives an allocation of models in the same way as any other retailer - it's essentially at an arm's length away from Hornby as a central thing, if that makes sense - so I'm not saying it's not possible for Hornby to give themselves more models to make more of a profit, but I personally think it's unlikely.
I saw those a while ago - and I must admit they almost convinced me to make at least a small N gauge layout!
-Peter
Yes, I almost did that too. There's also a really good value 12 car Eurostar set plus some HST's that are amazing value compared to what you can get in oo. You don't see too many similar 'train pack' sets around in oo these days do you? And certainly nowhere near that value for money.
Without wanting to go too off-topic - in fact I think this probably warrants its own thread entirely - but those N gauge train packs are brilliant. The HST ones, where you get the two power-cars and then two coaches, are excellent: Hornby should think about making some in OO, even if they are just the old Lima toolings
-Peter
Iskra
Established Member
I like how you brought that back on track there! Yes, I’d be up for any of the early privatisation livery versions of thoseWithout wanting to go too off-topic - in fact I think this probably warrants its own thread entirely - but those N gauge train packs are brilliant. The HST ones, where you get the two power-cars and then two coaches, are excellent: Hornby should think about making some in OO, even if they are just the old Lima toolings
-Peter
Thank youI like how you brought that back on track there! Yes, I’d be up for any of the early privatisation livery versions of those
Having said that, it's fairly well-known that Hornby got rid of loads of old toolings under the previous management - although lots of people calling for Hornby to release old models at cheap prices don't seem to know this -Peter
raetiamann
Member
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 226
About 4/5 years ago I was told by two retailers that Hornby was looking to phase out the retail network and drive traffic to the company's website. It looks to be happening.
greatvoyager
Established Member
Thank you
-Peter
Agreed, I have only been able to find items I want on their website, which is fine, but is quite expensive.
BRblue33
Member
Agree about Hornby they want to keep it in house to make more money. The last Hornby model i got was the 4 vep and that was a poor model. Most of my stock is Bachmann or Heljan and vitrains.
Kernow often have new stock in after a few months of people panic buying a model way over price - the Rocket set and the individual open coach being two recent examples, indeed their website is currently showing more than 10 of the coach at £16.99 and not surprisingly equally the triple pack at £69.99 for anyone daft enough to order that.
- Status