dontteleport
Member
Hi all,
*No prosecution or penalty fare issued, this was just a verbal dispute - delete or move if not allowed*
Sorry if the title is a little tabloid-y, I couldn't think of anything else short enough that made sense.
On my regular weekly commute from Brighton to Leicester, I encountered several difficulties that led to a verbal argument between me and a member of EMR's St Pancras gateline staff. Here's the brief series of events:
- Due to an error in the updated routing guide, no '&connections' tickets were available for my journey, for the particular period I happened to book my ticket in. It transpired this was an error that was promptly fixed, but not prompt enough for when I needed my ticket. So I just bought the St Pancras to Leicester leg, hoping a cheap Southern advance would appear the day before I travelled (it didn't).
- This meant I had to purchase an anytime day single from BTN-London St Pancras (I think it was London Thameslink) for vastly more money than that journey would've been on the '&connections' ticket, I did so reluctantly nonetheless because I don't think I would get very far citing some chat on a forum about the routing guide if I were caught on a peaktime train with no ticket.
- So all in all, the tickets I have are: BTN-STP anytime, and STP-LEI advance for the 10:05 departure
- I used the 08:26 Thameslink out of BTN, scheduled to arrive STP at 09:50 exactly (15 minutes connection, STP has 10 minimum)
- Due to a fault with the doors that meant they had to be closed sequentially, TL was running later and later by each stop, and reached STP around 10:10, so I'd missed my EMR connection
- Next EMR service for Leicester is a 10:32 Sheffield train. I head to the gateline, and approach a (non-agency, non-orange vest) member of staff to ask to be let through the barriers, as although I hadn't tried I'd just assumed they'd reject my advance, with the scheduled train having already departed. Turns out trying to be honest and transparent with them was a mistake.
- This staff member tells me in a very condescending tone (not even mentioning the split tickets) that
"there are different train operating companies; you've been delayed by Thameslink, and this is EMR. You'll need a new ticket."
Me: "No, I don't. I've arrived for my itenrary on time and my connections are within the minimums, I am entitled to use the next available service"
Him: "Your smart argument is gonna cost you a lot of money if you board that train, let me tell you. You'd best hope revenue aren't onboard or you're gonna get bruk (inner city slang for 'thoroughly hung out to dry')"
Now by this point I was very worked up, almost being made late to work and then having someone imply I'd need to pay heavily for the privilege. So I just ignored him, scanned my ticket and yes, it did operate the barriers. I boarded the 10:32, and lo and behold, we did have a revenue inspection. The RPI scanned both tickets, checked something (presumably the TL arrival time) on his phone, then said it was all perfectly fine, and when I mentioned what I'd been told at the gateline, he said "I dunno what he was on about".
Okay, so not a big deal since I didn't end up in court or out of pocket, but had I not been as tenacious, or not known my rights under the CoC, I likely would've taken Mr Gateline at face value and forked out for a walk-up single to LEI, which IIRC is north of £60. I find that to be absolutely outrageous and bordering on fraudulent, given that the passenger is misled to believe they don't have a valid ticket when they do, and part with more money as such. Looking around these forums, blatant misinformation from a small minority of staff can have a profoundly negative effect on the passenger experience, but how do they get staff this poorly trained behind the gateline? And what motivates said minority of staff to take this 'jobsworth' attitude to fares?
I have complained to EMR, who told me the following (quoted from email):
I mean sure, TL are to blame for the delay, but I can stomach a short hold-up, I do build a bit of leeway into my commute for that reason, what I cannot is being rudely told to pay a fortune when I owe nothing, so my issue here is really with EMR. I will put in a claim with TL of course, but I really do feel quite offended by the way EMR handled this situation. Was I potentially in breach of anything when I chose to act against the first staff member's advice and proceed to board? What would you have done? Sorry for such a long post, and interested to hear your thoughts.
*No prosecution or penalty fare issued, this was just a verbal dispute - delete or move if not allowed*
Sorry if the title is a little tabloid-y, I couldn't think of anything else short enough that made sense.
On my regular weekly commute from Brighton to Leicester, I encountered several difficulties that led to a verbal argument between me and a member of EMR's St Pancras gateline staff. Here's the brief series of events:
- Due to an error in the updated routing guide, no '&connections' tickets were available for my journey, for the particular period I happened to book my ticket in. It transpired this was an error that was promptly fixed, but not prompt enough for when I needed my ticket. So I just bought the St Pancras to Leicester leg, hoping a cheap Southern advance would appear the day before I travelled (it didn't).
- This meant I had to purchase an anytime day single from BTN-London St Pancras (I think it was London Thameslink) for vastly more money than that journey would've been on the '&connections' ticket, I did so reluctantly nonetheless because I don't think I would get very far citing some chat on a forum about the routing guide if I were caught on a peaktime train with no ticket.
- So all in all, the tickets I have are: BTN-STP anytime, and STP-LEI advance for the 10:05 departure
- I used the 08:26 Thameslink out of BTN, scheduled to arrive STP at 09:50 exactly (15 minutes connection, STP has 10 minimum)
- Due to a fault with the doors that meant they had to be closed sequentially, TL was running later and later by each stop, and reached STP around 10:10, so I'd missed my EMR connection
- Next EMR service for Leicester is a 10:32 Sheffield train. I head to the gateline, and approach a (non-agency, non-orange vest) member of staff to ask to be let through the barriers, as although I hadn't tried I'd just assumed they'd reject my advance, with the scheduled train having already departed. Turns out trying to be honest and transparent with them was a mistake.
- This staff member tells me in a very condescending tone (not even mentioning the split tickets) that
"there are different train operating companies; you've been delayed by Thameslink, and this is EMR. You'll need a new ticket."
Me: "No, I don't. I've arrived for my itenrary on time and my connections are within the minimums, I am entitled to use the next available service"
Him: "Your smart argument is gonna cost you a lot of money if you board that train, let me tell you. You'd best hope revenue aren't onboard or you're gonna get bruk (inner city slang for 'thoroughly hung out to dry')"
Now by this point I was very worked up, almost being made late to work and then having someone imply I'd need to pay heavily for the privilege. So I just ignored him, scanned my ticket and yes, it did operate the barriers. I boarded the 10:32, and lo and behold, we did have a revenue inspection. The RPI scanned both tickets, checked something (presumably the TL arrival time) on his phone, then said it was all perfectly fine, and when I mentioned what I'd been told at the gateline, he said "I dunno what he was on about".
Okay, so not a big deal since I didn't end up in court or out of pocket, but had I not been as tenacious, or not known my rights under the CoC, I likely would've taken Mr Gateline at face value and forked out for a walk-up single to LEI, which IIRC is north of £60. I find that to be absolutely outrageous and bordering on fraudulent, given that the passenger is misled to believe they don't have a valid ticket when they do, and part with more money as such. Looking around these forums, blatant misinformation from a small minority of staff can have a profoundly negative effect on the passenger experience, but how do they get staff this poorly trained behind the gateline? And what motivates said minority of staff to take this 'jobsworth' attitude to fares?
I have complained to EMR, who told me the following (quoted from email):
I am sorry for the problems that you had on your recent journey.
Looking at the tickets provided, these are sufficient for a split ticket journey as the connection time is 15 minutes. With the minimum connection time being 10 minutes at London St Pancras these tickets are within a reasonable time to be a split ticketed journey.
We have sent this across to the managers responsible at London St Pancras, and do hope you do not have this problem when travelling with us again.
As you were delayed by the Thameslink service, if you arrived at your end destination with a delay of 15 minutes or more you would be entitled to delay repay which you can apply for by submitting a delay repay claim directly with Thameslink.
Thanks again for getting in touch. I hope your next journey with us goes more smoothly.
I mean sure, TL are to blame for the delay, but I can stomach a short hold-up, I do build a bit of leeway into my commute for that reason, what I cannot is being rudely told to pay a fortune when I owe nothing, so my issue here is really with EMR. I will put in a claim with TL of course, but I really do feel quite offended by the way EMR handled this situation. Was I potentially in breach of anything when I chose to act against the first staff member's advice and proceed to board? What would you have done? Sorry for such a long post, and interested to hear your thoughts.