Island Line Class 484 Reliability

[meld3]

* - Or, as recently, by a large but placid school group who were being disorganised by one of the masters constantly running about rearranging things and holding up the queue. We ended up fifteen plus late at the Pier Head from a ten late arrival at Portsmouth.

You Sir, are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my five shillings!

 

[Invincible]

Scratching my head.

It says
3 out of service,
2 of which are subject to brake testing,
leaves only 1 unit in service.
But there are five units so three must be in service.

So I would not read to much into that quoted piece.

The half hour timetable has been been restored, on RTT says 004 and 005, so how many trains are now working with new wheels sets and tested brakes?

 

[MotCO]

Aside from the wheel issues, are the 484s reasonably reliable?

 

[david1212]

.... The advantage of the D78s was not that they're lower or narrower than most mainline stock but that they're shorter. Being available second hand and having DC traction no doubt helped as well.

While they had DC pickup Vivarail replaced the motors and controllers. On paper more reliable, less maintenance and greater efficiency as in less energy loss. The downside is the software. I recall during early testing the software had to be changed then drivers told they had to operate the controller in a specific way. If the original motors and controllers had been retained then a pile of spares put into the stores while more maintenance on the DC components staff would have basic familiarity from the 1938 stock.

My opinion is that the main problem is that the turn-round times at each end are now longer than before and effectively mean that there is virtually no recovery time. If a train is delayed the delay can only be caught up by the odd half-minute here and there: the old units allowed a quick turn-round at each terminal which could save a couple of minutes or so each time. Now you get a minute or so, except with the short turn-round at Esplanade, when you can catch up a bit more.

I think that's pretty much what happens, however the Shanklin to Ryde Pier Head train has 4 minute turnarounds at each end.
To fit in with it at the passing place, the other one isn't exactly half-hour opposite, and can only go as far as Esplanade, having a 4 minute turnaround there. It has a longer, 10 minute turnaround at Shanklin.

In short, there isn't time for the second train to go to Pier Head and get back to the passing place in time. It has to terminate short at Esplanade.

It all looks an ill thought out mess to this onlooker I'm afraid.

Had the existing motors and controllers been retained the minimum turn-around time, so long as not increased as a result of other software that did not exist as bought from LT, ought to have been similar to the 1938 stock.
Regarding the running time Brading <> Ryde Pier Head if modelling of this was based on the LT performance but the required driving style with the new motors and controllers has made the Brading <> Ryde Esplanade section say a minute longer so two minutes on a circuit it would add to not being able to reliably run Brading > Ryde Pier Head > Brading in 30 minutes resulting in the current timetable.

Only time will tell how reliable the new motors and controllers turn out to be.

 

[Benjy3000]

How much impact are the extremely slow doors having on timekeeping? Not sure why they weren't kept at the same speed they were on the District Line days.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

How much impact are the extremely slow doors having on timekeeping? Not sure why they weren't kept at the same speed they were on the District Line days.

Rode the D78 stock often, Richmond branch, and Hammersmith. Not always helpful trying to remember things from so long ago, but my abiding memory is that the doors were slow to start opening, and one always felt the urge to give them a hand as soon as possible. Have no first hand knowledge of the present situation on the Island I should add.

 

[bramling]

How much impact are the extremely slow doors having on timekeeping? Not sure why they weren't kept at the same speed they were on the District Line days.

Is there any scope for speeding up the journey in terms of line speed improvements? Last time I was there a number of TSRs were in place which naturally wouldn’t be helping.

 

[Deepgreen]

GWR have bought them and they are now at Reading I believe. It may well help that both are FirstGroup TOCs.

Have GWR actually bought them outright or are they just leasing them from one of the ROSCOs?

It does beg the question - can ANY stock these days simply be transferred/modified without problems occurring? It seems to be virtually impossible to re-purpose stock without encountering significant problems.

 

[CarrotPie]

Have GWR actually bought them outright or are they just leasing them from one of the ROSCOs?

They've bought them outright, but that's a topic for that thread, not this one.

 

[Deepgreen]

They've bought them outright, but that's a topic for that thread, not this one.

Thanks, and agreed.

 

[cav1975]

Have GWR actually bought them outright or are they just leasing them from one of the ROSCOs?

It does beg the question - can ANY stock these days simply be transferred/modified without problems occurring? It seems to be virtually impossible to re-purpose stock without encountering significant problems.

I read that GWR had bought them as a job lot from Vivarail’s liquidator.

 

[Chris125]

There is still a loop at Sandown. It is pneumatic points, I think.

IIRC the loop at Sandown was modernised during the upgrade, presumably to standardise with the new equipment controlling Brading.

 

[Invincible]

I read that GWR had bought them as a job lot from Vivarail’s liquidator.

Guess when Porterbrook took over Long Marsden they are now charging GWR a rent for storing the old unconverted D78 units, with a view to perhaps getting involved with converting more to battery powered 230s if the FAST charge project works using the former Vivarail workshops at Long Marsden?
GWR has access to more spare parts from the D78s which could also be used for the Island Line and TfW.

 

[D365]

... with a view to perhaps getting involved with converting more to battery powered 230s if the FAST charge project works using the former Vivarail workshops at Long Marsden?

Vivarail cleared their former "Long Marston" shed and offices when they moved to Kineton Road. I doubt that doubt GWR (the ex Vivarail team specifically) would be interested in moving back in.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Sorry. Here's a link to the story. Hope that works. I'm a frustrated Island Line passenger - not a techie!
https://iwobserver.co.uk/5-trains-have-become-4-and-swr-are-buying-wheels-from-a-scrapyard/

Is there any scope for speeding up the journey in terms of line speed improvements? Last time I was there a number of TSRs were in place which naturally wouldn’t be helping.

The following quote from the following article indicates that replacing the track would fix the problems of excessive wear and tear on the wheels. Replacing the track would also enable the line speed to be improved. Enabling the trains to run at 60 mph instead of 45 mph on the two and a half mile single track section between Smallbrook Junction and Brading would take a minute off the travel time between Brading and Ryde Pier Head and this would enable the originally proposed 30 minute interval timetable Ryde Pier Head to and from Shanklin passing at Brading. The speed restriction in place last year at the Pig Leg Level Crossing between Ryde St Johns Road and Smallbrook Junction has been lifted as a result of the new lights being installed at the level crossing.

5 trains have become 4 – and SWR are buying wheels from a scrapyard!

The Island’s transport troubles extend beyond the ferry fiascos that have dominated recent headlines. The much-vaunted ‘new’ Class 484 Island Line trains, which only entered service in November 2021 promising a fresh start, find themselves on

iwobserver.co.uk

The 484’s wheel woes are believed to be excessive ‘hollow wheel wear’, caused by problems with the track rather than the wheels themselves. It is primarily caused by a mismatch between the track and the wheels made worse by poor track conditions. The heavily-redacted FOIA documents reveal a “long-term” plan to buy new wheels.

Also, who in the right mind of the timetable people, decided to stop half of the trains at Ryde Esplanade. It's just inconvenient, what's so expensive of making the train go 400m across the Pier. It's not the Class 484 trains, but whoever created this new timetable needs to have a rethink.

The only way to get a timetable of two trains an hour between Ryde and Shanklin with the trains passing each other using the new loop at Brading is to terminate every alternate train at Ryde Esplanade instead of Ryde Pier Head. It takes around a minute too long to get from Brading to Ryde Pier Head with a four minute turn around at Ryde Pier Head. The trains then pass at Brading at 32 minute and 28 minute intervals. To fix this the time interval between the trains departing Brading and arriving at Ryde Pier Head needs to be reduced by a minute. I do not understand why the line speed was not increased between Brading and Smallbrook Junction as part of the renewal work in 2021 as it should have been obvious that the proposed 30 minute interval timetable Ryde Pier Head to and from Shanklin with trains passing at Brading would not work without this line speed increase.

BBC report dated yesterday

Broken-down train halts Isle of Wight rail services

Buses are brought in to take passengers between Ryde Pier Head and Ryde Esplanade.

www.bbc.co.uk

Island Line currently operates one service an hour in each direction between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin, using a single train.
The train firm bought five two-carriage trains from Vivarail, a company which collapsed shortly afterwards.
Two of the five trains are out of service long-term, having failed because of flood damage.
The remaining three trains have been affected by excessive wear to the wheels.
This led to Island Line reducing the timetable by half, from two trains an hour to one.
South Western Railway hoped to reinstate a second train for the peak summer season, but it has not confirmed this will happen.

 

[Skymonster]

The Dutch company (which lost money when Viva Rail collapsed) currently has staff at Ryde updating the train software, particularly in relation to the traction package. This will improve reliability and will also more fully enable four-car working, and is now being paid for by South Western Railway. The control cards from the flooded units were taken to the Netherlands for examination and testing and were surprisingly found to be still functional. Three units are currently operable (484003 / 004 / 005), while 001 was worst damaged by the flood and 002 is the mule for the updates.

 

[weeklycommuter]

South Western Railway have posted on their website the following 40 minute interval timetable for the Island Line 2 June to 21 September 2024.
I assume they will at least be able to keep to this and run reliably to timetable as the run times and turn around times have been extended.
Arriving on the hourly Wightlink fastcat at Ryde Pier Head at xx37 the next train departures in alternate hours are at xx47 and xx03. The train before the hourly fastcat departures from Ryde Pier Head at xx45 arrives in alternate hours at xx18 and xx34. At least this will be more leisurely than rushing between the fastcat and an hourly train arriving at xx40 and departing at xx44.

Train Timetable | South Western Railway

Our timetables can be downloaded direct to your computer or mobile phone, giving you easy access to the information wherever you are.

www.southwesternrailway.com

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/-/media/files/plan-my-journey/timetables/june-2024/ptt24a-june-2024.pdf

 

[Gloster]

No regular interval service, longer waits every other hour, not much more robust connections southbound on the ‘good’ hour: I foresee an increase of car and foot traffic along the pier. Is this an admission that, despite gawd knows how many millions spent, they can’t run a decent service?

 

[DelW]

South Western Railway have posted on their website the following 40 minute interval timetable for the Island Line 2 June to 21 September 2024.
I assume they will at least be able to keep to this and run reliably to timetable as the run times and turn around times have been extended.
Arriving on the hourly Wightlink fastcat at Ryde Pier Head at xx37 the next train departures in alternate hours are at xx47 and xx03. The train before the hourly fastcat departures from Ryde Pier Head at xx45 arrives in alternate hours at xx18 and xx34. At least this will be more leisurely than rushing between the fastcat and an hourly train arriving at xx40 and departing at xx44.

It's very difficult to see 26 and 27 minute connections at Pier Head as any sort of improvement. Maybe Wightlink should reopen the cafe in their waiting area, as there's likely to be a lot of people waiting around with nothing else to do.

The rebuilding of the line was supposed to move away from the unsatisfactory 20/40 minute frequency. A 40/40 interval timetable seems to be worse than the 1938 stock managed.

 

[david1212]

One day last week I wondered the situation both fleet and service but did not get around to looking at RTT.

Regarding 001 only time will tell if it is ever returned to service or becomes a source of parts. Unless two 4-car sets are deemed necessary for the loadings what incentive is there?

Looking at the timetable from 2nd June one hour in three 27 minute wait for the ferry and 26 minute wait for the train. IMO that is not going to help with passengers numbers. When the ferry runs every 30 mins one hour a 17 minute wait for the ferry and 19 minute wait for the train. The other the next ferry arrives / departs before a train ..........

No regular interval service, longer waits every other hour, not much more robust connections southbound on the ‘good’ hour: I foresee an increase of car and foot traffic along the pier. Is this an admission that, despite gawd knows how many millions spent, they can’t run a decent service?

Hard to interpret otherwise given that to the only way to run a 30 minute service is investing even more money to bring the crossing point nearer to Ryde i.e. a mile or so of double track and/or reduce the journey time Brading>Pier Head>Brading.

 

[weeklycommuter]

It's very difficult to see 26 and 27 minute connections at Pier Head as any sort of improvement. Maybe Wightlink should reopen the cafe in their waiting area, as there's likely to be a lot of people waiting around with nothing else to do.
The rebuilding of the line was supposed to move away from the unsatisfactory 20/40 minute frequency. A 40/40 interval timetable seems to be worse than the 1938 stock managed.

The fastcat is officially timed to arrive at Ryde Pier Head at xx37 but it may be a minute or two late docking and with the time needed to disembark then walk around the outside of the building to the railway platform it can be difficult to get to the platform for the current train departure time of xx44. A train departure time of xx47 will allow more time to get to the platform and the wait on the platform for a train arriving at xx57 and departing at xx03 is likely to be around ten minutes. Nevertheless the timetable promised and the reason for the Brading Loop was a 30 minute interval timetable on the full route Ryde Pier Head to and from Shanklin, not 30 minutes with every other train turning around at Ryde Esplanade and not this 40 minute interval timetable which is clearly being introduced because they cannot get the 30 minute timetable on the full route Ryde Pier Head to and from Shanklin to work.

 

[Chris125]

Good thing every station has - finally - got information screens now.

 

[bramling]

No regular interval service, longer waits every other hour, not much more robust connections southbound on the ‘good’ hour: I foresee an increase of car and foot traffic along the pier. Is this an admission that, despite gawd knows how many millions spent, they can’t run a decent service?

This really does seem to be the gift that keeps giving, or not.

Is there any technical reason why the old 38 stock 40/20 timetable can’t be restored, or does it seem to be the case that the D stock can’t meet the running times - if not why not?

 

[amazon1675]

This really does seem to be the gift that keeps giving, or not.

Is there any technical reason why the old 38 stock 40/20 timetable can’t be restored, or does it seem to be the case that the D stock can’t meet the running times - if not why not?

Heritage railways would seem better run ...now there's a thought. Southern Vectis must be loving all this incompetance.The line is less than 10 miles long yet operationally seems to be more complex to resolve than any other line in England. Should have made it a dedicated bus way.Thank goodness Vivarail have folded and are not producing any more refurbed units to drive up car and bus usage !

 

[Bletchleyite]

This really does seem to be the gift that keeps giving, or not.

Is there any technical reason why the old 38 stock 40/20 timetable can’t be restored, or does it seem to be the case that the D stock can’t meet the running times - if not why not?

I have wondered this. With an hourly ferry, as it mostly is, a train 10-15 minutes either side (the earlier one for people going to the ferry, the later one for people going from it) would be perfect to make it a stress free change in both directions without excessive waiting around. Then have the 40 minute gap when the ferry isn't.

What they're doing will also work, but it's less memorable.

 

[Skymonster]

I arrived at Ryde Esplanade last week at 17:10 needing to go to Sandown. Island Line was a 40 minute wait, using Southern Vectis No.3 meant I was away from Ryde just over five minutes after getting off the hovercraft and in the middle of Sandown well ahead of the train. Southern Vectis is obviously very good at revenue collection while Island Line can often let a huge number of fares go begging (I always at least try to pay). I also much prefer Island Line but…

 

[bramling]

I have wondered this. With an hourly ferry, as it mostly is, a train 10-15 minutes either side (the earlier one for people going to the ferry, the later one for people going from it) would be perfect to make it a stress free change in both directions without excessive waiting around. Then have the 40 minute gap when the ferry isn't.

What they're doing will also work, but it's less memorable.

This is the thing if you’re going to have a 40-minute service then there’s no benefit at all over the 20/40 especially as they have made it completely non-memorable.

Surely it isn’t that the D stock’s single-leaf doors aren’t coming back to haunt again, just like they were a nuisance on LU?

 

[Skymonster]

I appreciate we’re talking fast cat and Island Line here, but its a real shame these can’t emulate what Hovertravel / Hoverbus does in Portsmouth / Southsea. H1 is timed to arrive at Clarence Pier around ten to fifteen minutes before the hovercraft departs, which is ample, and then waits until a few minutes after the inbound hovercraft arrives to take passengers into Portsmouth. Its a pretty slick operation that I’ve always found works well. That it can’t be emulated on the Island with fast cat / hovercraft / Island Line is a real shame…