Last Loco-hauled MK1 and MK2 stock

torten

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What was the last loco-haulled Mk1 and Mk2 stock in use in regular passenger services? I presume for the Mk1's it would have been the North Wales coast line, and for the Mk2's the Caledonian sleeper?
 
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30907

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The Fife Circle sets lasted till May 2020 (nominally, not sure what happened re Covid) so must have been the last; the Cumbrian Coast sets to the end of 2018 and the Norwich-Yarmouth set to Sept 2019.
Not sure of Mk 1s.
 
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yorksrob

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The Fife Circle sets lasted till May 2020 (nominally, not sire what happened re Covid) so must have been the last; the Cumbrian Coast sets to the end of 2018 and the Norwich-Yarmouth set to Sept 2019.
Not sure of Mk 1s.
Mk 2's on the Cumbrian and Yarmouth routes.
 

Gloster

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Are you going to include the BG, or even the converted GUV, that continued long after the rest of the fleet?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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What was the last loco-haulled Mk1 and Mk2 stock in use in regular passenger services? I presume for the Mk1's it would have been the North Wales coast line, and for the Mk2's the Caledonian sleeper?
MK1s left the FNW franchise in, I think, 2002 when 175s fully took over the Holyhead-Crewe-Birmingham and Holyhead-Manchester loco-hauled services.
Mk1 catering vehicles were in WCML (Virgin) formations (of Mk2/3 stock) quite late, maybe 2003 when Pendolinos/Voyagers replaced loco-hauled sets.
 

warwickshire

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What was the last loco-haulled Mk1 and Mk2 stock in use in regular passenger services? I presume for the Mk1's it would have been the North Wales coast line, and for the Mk2's the Caledonian sleeper?
Mk2 Barrow to Carlisle.
Cumbrian coast line to December 2019.
37 hauled.
Although 68s did appear September 2019.
Before sandite duties that year.
 

43096

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The Fife Circle sets lasted till May 2020 (nominally, not sure what happened re Covid) so must have been the last; the Cumbrian Coast sets to the end of 2018 and the Norwich-Yarmouth set to Sept 2019.
Not sure of Mk 1s.
Don't forget the Mark 2 lounges and brake/seats vehicles on the Caledonian Sleeper, which lasted to October 2019, I think.
 

delt1c

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MK1s left the FNW franchise in, I think, 2002 when 175s fully took over the Holyhead-Crewe-Birmingham and Holyhead-Manchester loco-hauled services.
Mk1 catering vehicles were in WCML (Virgin) formations (of Mk2/3 stock) quite late, maybe 2003 when Pendolinos/Voyagers replaced loco-hauled sets.
I believe all Virgin sets had Mk3 catering vehicles, the last Mk 1 catering vehicle ( I think) was an RMB in an Anglia rake which was retired in early 2000's. Exact date i cannot confirm although I did witness its last journey into Liverpool St.
 

nw1

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A related question would be 'when did the last "older style" Mk-IIs run'? By older style I mean the sub-type with the large, openable windows and older style interior rather than the newer, air-conditioned sub-type with narrower windows and a more modern interior - and which used to be the mainstay of Reading XC services in the 80s.

I don't think I've seen any of these since about the year 2000.
 

Mag_seven

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I believe all Virgin sets had Mk3 catering vehicles, the last Mk 1 catering vehicle ( I think) was an RMB in an Anglia rake which was retired in early 2000's. Exact date i cannot confirm although I did witness its last journey into Liverpool St.

Agreed - I don't believe the Mark 1s in West coast rakes survived into the Virgin livery era.
 

route101

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A related question would be 'when did the last "older style" Mk-IIs run'? By older style I mean the sub-type with the large, openable windows and older style interior rather than the newer, air-conditioned sub-type with narrower windows and a more modern interior - and which used to be the mainstay of Reading XC services in the 80s.

I don't think I've seen any of these since about the year 2000.
North Wales for the older MK2s perhaps?
 

Taunton

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Until quite recent times, hauled stock typically lasted only about 20-25 years, the first half on mainstream expresses and then in secondary/relief usage. The Mk 1s from 1955-60 went in around 1975-85, and likewise the non-AC up to Mk 2c lasted from being built up to 1970 through to about 2000.

Initially with Mk 1s there was an official belief that, in the future, they would be rebodied at half life onto the existing frames/bogies, which are more than half the cost (some official must have been ex-Southern Railway, long past masters at this), but in practice the running gear became outmoded just as much as the bodies.

The thing that really did for them was steam heating, still used up to the Mk 2c, but from air-con 2d it had to be all electric. Low pressure steam used to leak inside the structure in winter and corrode the steel bodies from the inside out, exacerbated by the cycle of being cold/sub zero at night in sidings and warmed in the day. It was a reason why emus, always electric heated, had always lasted longer as well.
 

warwickshire

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And Fife Circle too, surely?


The official DRS farewell was on 11 Jan 2019 - so I stand by Dec 2018 :)
Yes fully agree cumbrian was December 2018.
APOLOGIES iff I put December 2019.
It was December 2018. For cumbrian services.

And Fife Circle too, surely?


The official DRS farewell was on 11 Jan 2019 - so I stand by Dec 2018 :)
Yes further more fife circle may 2020.
However due to covid they ran around 2145 Edinburgh to inverkething.
Drs 68.
More importantly these sets was the last locomotive hauled sets in Scotland in passenger service which would have ended may 2020.
However no covid 19.
Which would have seen the hst slam doors replace them.
Back on topic during April to may 2019.
Time trials took place on the barrow furness line with class 37s and mk2 drs coaches for further possible usage again.
Which then saw them due to being cet ie toilet tank fitted.
For a year go to the fife circle line ie 2019 to 2020. To replace the ones or most off the ones that where not.
So for a another year may 2019 to may 2020 the ex cumbrian ones came back to service in Scotland on the fife circle.
 
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The Fife circle loco hauled was definitely the last Mk2s in regular passenger service, they lasted until the 29/05/20
 

The exile

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The Mk 1s from 1955-60 went in around 1975-85, and likewise the non-AC up to Mk 2c lasted from being built up to 1970 through to about 2000.
Plenty of Mark 1s in everyday service well beyond 1985, and not just on secondary services. As has been mentioned above, Mk 1 buffets were in regular intercity use long after most "normal" seated Mk1 stock had been relegated to more humble duties.
 

Sm5

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The VEP is quite definitely a mk1, retired in May 2005, the mk1 CIGs lasted at Lymington until May 2010… ok not loco hauled, but a milestone in itself… mail trains used mk1’s until 2004.
Network Rail still use some mk1’s in Test trains today on a nightly basis, and a considerable number of mk2’s.
 
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Bertie the bus

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Plenty of Mark 1s in everyday service well beyond 1985, and not just on secondary services. As has been mentioned above, Mk 1 buffets were in regular intercity use long after most "normal" seated Mk1 stock had been relegated to more humble duties.

Yes, Mk 1s were common throughout the country well after 1985. Just a few examples - Cardiff - Portsmouth until 1989, Paddington - Oxford well into the NSE era which only started in 1986, around the North West on services from Manchester - Barrow / Blackpool until at least 1990.
 

hexagon789

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Plenty of Mark 1s in everyday service well beyond 1985, and not just on secondary services. As has been mentioned above, Mk 1 buffets were in regular intercity use long after most "normal" seated Mk1 stock had been relegated to more humble duties.
GWT certainly had a Mk1 RMB in traffic in 1999. Anglia had 3 Mk1 RBR until around the same period, possibly even 2000(?).

ScotRail had a Mk1 BG (NHA) on its books as a spare brake for the sleepers into 2005.
 

SteveM70

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A vaguely related question - when did the mark I buffets with the two smaller windows midway down the carriage disappear? I remember them well from the late 70s but not after that
 

hexagon789

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A vaguely related question - when did the mark I buffets with the two smaller windows midway down the carriage disappear? I remember them well from the late 70s but not after that
The RMB (Miniature Buffet) cars? Essentially an ordinary Second Class coach but with a buffet counter 1/4 of the way into the coach at one end and taking up two window bays?
 

43096

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Mk1 catering vehicles were in WCML (Virgin) formations (of Mk2/3 stock) quite late, maybe 2003 when Pendolinos/Voyagers replaced loco-hauled sets.
There were no Mark 1 buffets on West Coast after privatisation; indeed I suspect they were killed off in such trains in the late 1980s/early 1990s as there was a sufficient surplus of Mark 3 RFMs to send some to Anglia. The Mark 3s to Anglia would only have happened once the Mark1s were eliminated. Thinking about it, the last Mark 1s on West Coast would have been the BGs until they were replaced by DVTs.
 

SteveM70

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The RMB (Miniature Buffet) cars? Essentially an ordinary Second Class coach but with a buffet counter 1/4 of the way into the coach at one end and taking up two window bays?

Not sure of the acronym - but these things (apologies for the photo being a model):

1633211434092.png
 

HamworthyGoods

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A related question would be 'when did the last "older style" Mk-IIs run'? By older style I mean the sub-type with the large, openable windows and older style interior rather than the newer, air-conditioned sub-type with narrower windows and a more modern interior - and which used to be the mainstay of Reading XC services in the 80s.

I don't think I've seen any of these since about the year 2000.

The last older style mk2s with the opening windows would have been the 80 class DEMUs which lasted until 2011 in passenger traffic.
 

Rescars

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RMBs worked many of the Cross Country services through Birmingham in the late 1970s. Did they last until the loco hauled sets were replaced by HSTs?
 

D6968

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I think Anglia might have used MK1 buffets on its Liverpool Street Norwich services until about 1999? One of them has ended up at the Mid Norfolk, Ex Coldhams Lane.
 

hexagon789

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Not sure of the acronym - but these things (apologies for the photo being a model):

View attachment 103371
Yes, that is an RMB (Restaurant Miniature Buffet)
I think Anglia might have used MK1 buffets on its Liverpool Street Norwich services until about 1999? One of them has ended up at the Mid Norfolk, Ex Coldhams Lane.
Yes, but they were RBRs not RMB.

RMBs worked many of the Cross Country services through Birmingham in the late 1970s. Did they last until the loco hauled sets were replaced by HSTs?
I think mostly switched to RBR by then.

GWT still had RMB in 1999 as I mentioned
 

Rescars

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Yes, that is an RMB (Restaurant Miniature Buffet)

Yes, but they were RBRs not RMB.


I think mostly switched to RBR by then.

GWT still had RMB in 1999 as I mentioned
Makes sense. As buffet cars, RBRs had a lot more staff working space and secure pantry storage capacity than the RMBs.
 

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