"All hail the Supreme leader [enter name of SAGE Scientist]".
Elsewhere I believe infections could easily go up in January, but I think it's much more likely to be a consequence of schools and physical workplaces that closed over Christmas returning from a 2-3 week holiday, rather than because of mixing at Christmas, in the same way infections rose again from September. However, without bringing this too much into the debate, the way "you know what" is going, if there's border disruption I wouldn't be surprised if a rise in infections in January gets overshadowed by troubles getting vaccines, drugs and other essential goods generally into the country in the first place.
Just reading that article further, it seems patronising that the SAGE document in question includes the quote: "Women carry the burden of creating and maintaining family traditions and activities at Christmas. Messaging should be supportive of women adapting traditions and encouraging those around them to share the burden and to be supportive of any alterations to adapt for Covid-19 restrictions."It's getting even more ridiculous now.
SAGE are now recommending we don't play board games, just in case we all die from playing scrabble or snakes & ladders.
Covid Christmas: 'Avoid board games and sleepovers'
Scientists spell out measures to minimise coronavirus infection risk when rules are relaxed at Christmas.www.bbc.co.uk
Just reading that article further, it seems patronising that the SAGE document in question includes the quote: "Women carry the burden of creating and maintaining family traditions and activities at Christmas. Messaging should be supportive of women adapting traditions and encouraging those around them to share the burden and to be supportive of any alterations to adapt for Covid-19 restrictions."
Apologies if pointing this out is wrong, but this quote seems rather stereotypical and possibly even sexist.
If we are to have a tier system (or any set of restrictions) then objective criteria should certainly be essential and Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition should quite clearly state that they are not going to vote for any system which lacks such criteria. Of course with poodle Starmer at the helm that will not happen.With regard to the current tier system, we need to have some objective criteria that can be used to decide which tier each area should go into.
The advisers recognise that negotiating these arrangements may "create tensions".
But they suggest a series of measures, ranging from minimising the numbers getting together to keeping events brief to avoiding physical contact.
Children should meet their grandparents outside where possible - so lets say its at least 1 degrees celsius lets freeze everyone outside than be in a warm place (again what did we do as a society prior to all this.... oh wait we all met INSIDE!)
Another document published by Sage makes clear that most coronavirus infections happen during prolonged indoor gatherings of people who are familiar with each other.
That creates what's called an "intimacy paradox" in which we let our guard down because we don't see our loved ones as a potential dangers.
If Monopoly at my family house years ago is anything to go by, everybody will end up shouting at each other, which will spread the virus quicker (let alone the Banker handling the money); the board will be overturned at some point, meaning someone will have to pick the pieces off the floor where the virus droplets have fell; so then we’ll have to watch “Only Fools and Horses“ which will lead to massive yawns as DelBoy does the same jokes endlessly, thus inhaling each others’ germs.It’s OK, by the time you get round to finishing a short game of Monopoly the vaccine will be available
So let's say people did that, would you be happy turning up at your local supermarket only to be told that there's a 3 hour wait
Maybe SAGE still indulge in Harry Enfield Public service announcements (e.g. "Women, know your limits!"), which were what came to mind with that document statement.It is very much sexist, and only goes to further increase the impression that Sage is not in tune with current-day society.
The announcement of the rules, which will come into force from 2 December, has prompted questions and concerns from business owners and families.
Some areas with lower infection rates feel they have been unfairly targeted, while others feel that, despite having been through four weeks of lockdown, they are no further forward.
Cynically but I certainly wouldn't have put it past Dom to see the opportunityI do believe one has acted as the dead cat for the other at least once this year. Covid is a good dead cat for Brexit with regards to economic hit (pass the latter off as because of the former) and in negotiation handling generally, while the internal market bill debacle has helped as one of many different dead cats to distract from disastrous Covid handling.
Right now with the end of the TP looming it makes a lot of sense for Covid to cover up Brexit issues, so the revised tier structure and Christmas rules certainly help that distraction.
A good article (among the usual fearmongering rubbish the BBC also produces) on the BBC site:
Covid tiers: 'Rules have changed in the middle of the game'
Businesses and families are coming to terms with England's new tier system, in place from 2 December.www.bbc.co.uk
If anyone thinks the restrictions are wanted by the majority of the population, they are totally and utterly deluded.
I can’t believe what I’m reading here, to be honest.Depends whether, during the process of the move, you are deemed to be no longer resident in a T3 area?
Generally speaking I can get onboard with this, although the way the Government has handled most aspects of the pandemic response so far makes delivering anything like your proposal, in terms of both scale and rate, optimistic.Well assuming the vaccinations really do start in a week.... my position has changed somewhat.
It is no longer a case of open ended lockdown, we now have a definable end point.
All that really matters now is getting the vaccination rate as high as possible.
Which is why I don't think going to dispersed care home populations is a good idea.
All available vaccination resources should be concentrated onto a small number of sites, and people should be called by year of birth to attend the centres.
Taxis, buses and other similar vehicles should be laid on to convey as many people as possible to the concentrated vaccination centres.
They should pull pretty anyone who is trained, or can be trained, to give vaccine and put them there where their productivity in terms of number of people per hour can be maximised.
If necessary nonessential health activities should be suspended until the over 65s have been vaccinated.
Once the over 65s are done, all remaining restrictions are pointless and can be entirely relaxed and the vaccination programme can proceed at a far more sedate pace.
They will need sites with very large areas where seating can be spread out, and people will file into a given row of seats, then file out of the seats to the opposite side of the area after their fifteen minutes is completed.
(image shows Boris Johnson photoshopped to resemble North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, and the messageSpot on all conveniently lowered by Father Boris Christmas just in time for him to celebrated as the Great Leader who saved our Christmas
Hail the Chief
Maybe SAGE still indulge in Harry Enfield Public service announcements (e.g. "Women, know your limits!"), which were what came to mind with that document statement.
I'm not bothered about christmas one way or the other - I normally work over it - but many people are bothered and I have no doubt at all that a lot of those will meet up with who they want to meet up with, whatever the government says.
So I am going home, not because it's Christmas, but because the Christmas relaxation of rules is my first opportunity since early October to see them. And I do not know when the next opportunity will be. I missed seeing them for my birthday last March due to lockdown, and I expect the same will happen for my next Birthday too.
So basically business as usual then?What I said was that people should self isolate as much as possible, taking into account their work and other commitments.
So if you are able to work from home, you should do so for up to two weeks after meeting up with family over Christmas.
But if you do work in a supermarket or bank, you can't self isolate and you will need to go to work. However you can self isolate for the time when you are not at work.
My suggestion was simply a strategy to reduce, not eliminate, the possibility of virus transmission following families meeting up at Christmas.
This is extremely sexist to say the least. Frankly it says a lot about the kind of people who make up SAGE.Just reading that article further, it seems patronising that the SAGE document in question includes the quote: "Women carry the burden of creating and maintaining family traditions and activities at Christmas. Messaging should be supportive of women adapting traditions and encouraging those around them to share the burden and to be supportive of any alterations to adapt for Covid-19 restrictions."
Apologies if pointing this out is wrong, but this quote seems rather stereotypical and possibly even sexist.
The vaccination plan is already in place, that is those most vulnerable and those caring for them get the vaccine first should they wish. Once the majority of those people have been given it, restrictions must be lifted as the risk to the NHS is all but removed & the rest of the population can the be offered it in the in age bands defined by the government down to the 50+.Well assuming the vaccinations really do start in a week.... my position has changed somewhat.
It is no longer a case of open ended lockdown, we now have a definable end point.
All that really matters now is getting the vaccination rate as high as possible.
Which is why I don't think going to dispersed care home populations is a good idea.
All available vaccination resources should be concentrated onto a small number of sites, and people should be called by year of birth to attend the centres.
Taxis, buses and other similar vehicles should be laid on to convey as many people as possible to the concentrated vaccination centres.
They should pull pretty anyone who is trained, or can be trained, to give vaccine and put them there where their productivity in terms of number of people per hour can be maximised.
If necessary nonessential health activities should be suspended until the over 65s have been vaccinated.
Once the over 65s are done, all remaining restrictions are pointless and can be entirely relaxed and the vaccination programme can proceed at a far more sedate pace.
They will need sites with very large areas where seating can be spread out, and people will file into a given row of seats, then file out of the seats to the opposite side of the area after their fifteen minutes is completed.
Well maybe I am deluded but all the people I know haven't expressed any anti restrictions to me, and just seem to be getting on with things as best they can without moaning about it, In fact the only hostility to the regulations I have experienced with one exception has been on this forum.A good article (among the usual fearmongering rubbish the BBC also produces) on the BBC site:
Covid tiers: 'Rules have changed in the middle of the game'
Businesses and families are coming to terms with England's new tier system, in place from 2 December.www.bbc.co.uk
If anyone thinks the restrictions are wanted by the majority of the population, they are totally and utterly deluded.
So I'm guessing you don't know anyone in the entertainment, leisure, holiday, hospitality industries or anyone who works for their supply chains then?Well maybe I am deluded but all the people I know haven't expressed any anti restrictions to me, and just seem to be getting on with things as best they can without moaning about it, In fact the only hostility to the regulations I have experienced with one exception has been on this forum.
I don't know anyone who is happy with these restrictions and I work with lots of different people.Well maybe I am deluded but all the people I know haven't expressed any anti restrictions to me, and just seem to be getting on with things as best they can without moaning about it, In fact the only hostility to the regulations I have experienced with one exception has been on this forum.
COVID-19: Restrictions likely until Easter as Gove launches fightback against Tory lockdown rebels
Senior Conservatives predict a rebellion by up to 70 Tory backbenchers, which would mean the PM would have to rely on Labour.
COVID-19 restrictions are likely to be in force until Easter, Sky News has learned, as Boris Johnson heads for a Commons showdown with rebel Tory MPs over the new tier system.
Senior sources have revealed that even if large numbers of COVID-19 vaccinations begin at the end of January it will be Easter - on 4 April next year - before life returns to normal.
The stark warning, handed to the prime minister and senior ministers by government scientific advisers, contrasts with more optimistic forecasts by Mr Johnson in recent days.
The gloomy prediction coincides with a government fightback by the Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove against rebel Tory MPs threatening to vote against the new tiers on Tuesday.
Writing in The Times, Mr Gove says every hospital in England faces being overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases if MPs fail to back the government's tough new restrictions in the vote.
Warning that it could be Easter before coronavirus restrictions are lifted, one source familiar with the government's scientific advice told Sky News: "This has been the running assumption.
"If you think that vaccines will start going in arms in large numbers at the end of January, it will be Easter by the time life changes properly and there would be restrictions until then.
"The government has also been very clear that the restrictions will go to January and beyond."
Earlier, during a visit to the Porton Down research laboratory near Salisbury, the prime minister raised the prospect of local authorities being moved into lower tiers in the review planned for 16 December.
But the government's scientific advisers have stressed that this is unlikely, particularly before Christmas, a warning that is likely to incense many Tory MPs ahead of next week's vote.
Senior Conservative MPs are predicting a rebellion by up to 70 Tory backbenchers, which would mean the prime minister would have to rely on Labour votes to avoid a humiliating defeat.
Writing in The Times, Mr Gove revealed the decision to impose a four-week lockdown earlier this month was taken after scientists warned the lockdown rules were not enough to prevent the NHS from being "physically overwhelmed".
He wrote: "Every bed, every ward occupied. All the capacity built in the Nightingales and requisitioned from the private sector too. The numbers infected with COVID-19 and requiring a bed would displace all but emergency cases. And then even those."
Mr Gove said MPs should not fall for "comfortable evasions" that things were now different or put their constituencies ahead of the national interest.
"When the country is facing such a national crisis, the truth is that all of us who have been elected to parliament, not just ministers, must take responsibility for difficult decisions," he said.
"COVID-19 is no respecter of constituency boundaries and the hardships we are facing now are unfortunately necessary to protect every single one of us, no matter where we live."
Mr Gove described the new restrictions that will see the vast majority of England in tougher tiers as "grimly, inevitably, necessary" to prevent the NHS from being unable to treat emergency patients.
"The level of infection across the country remains uncontrollably and threateningly high," he said. "Across the UK, around 16,000 beds are filled with COVID-19 patients, which compares with almost 20,000 at the April peak.
"From the current high base, any sharp uptick in infection could see the NHS under even more severe threat again."
Mr Gove also rejected suggestions that the measures were economically damaging, arguing that without them "the economy would grind to a halt" as a terrified population stayed at home rather than risked going out without care.
He also accepted that the previous tiers "were neither strong enough to reduce social contact sufficiently, nor applied widely enough to contain the virus's spread... and that is the difficult lesson we cannot unlearn as this lockdown ends".
It's scary how familiar this all sounds.YOU MAY BE IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP IF THEY...
- Play the victim. If things go wrong, it ́s all your fault
- Stop you seeing friends and family
- Tell you what to wear
- Control the finances, or won ́t let you work
- Control what you read, watch and say
- Won ́t let you go out without permission
- Punish you for breaking the rules, but the rules keep changing!
- Tell you it is for your own good, and that they know better
- Call you names or shame you for being stupid or selfish
- Dismiss your opinions
It's nonsense; the vulnerable people are the ones who should be being cautious where they go, but the reality is that the vast majority of people realise that the vast majority of infections are asymptomatic or only lead to mild symptoms and are not "scared" of the virus. On the other hand many people are increasingly scared for the physical and mental wellbeing and livelihoods of people they know..As for Gove opining that "the economy will grind to a halt because people will be too scared to go out of their doors" if this is the best tripe he can come up with in support of this policy, it 's about time he was put out to grass.
Quite. I have to wonder what work @37424 does and how many people they speak to. Through playing football as well as an incredibly varied job where I get to meet many different people including many different companies, of all those I've had a discussion about these matters, I think I get a much better idea of what people are thinking. I've not spoken to everyone I meet about it, of course, but I will do if a suitable opportunity arises.I don't know anyone who is happy with these restrictions and I work with lots of different people.
So it appears the Tiered system and Coronavirus restrictions are likely to remain until at least Easter. And Michael Gove warning that every hospital in the country risks being overwhelmed unless MP's back them on these restrictions remaining! This is absolutely bloody ridiculous. We've now found a couple of vaccines which will soon be rolled out to the most vulnerable people first, and then start rolling out to all other people over the coming months. So surely then all these restrictions can start to be relaxed and life get back to normal?? Cases are starting to decline now, Hospital admissions are already falling now, and the daily deaths will soon start falling. So why an earth will we have to put up this nonsense until at least Easter? Next thing a few months down the line they'll probably be saying these restrictions will have to remain until at least mid summer!!!! This is just absolutely insanity! All this in the meantime is causing absolutely catastrophic damage to many thousands of businesses(particularly in the hospitality and leisure industry), people's livelihoods and their mental health. This just can not drag on until at least Easter!!!!
You've probably watched the news about this, but here is an article from Sky News about this.
COVID-19: Restrictions likely until Easter as Gove launches fightback against Tory lockdown rebels
Senior Conservatives predict a rebellion by up to 70 Tory backbenchers, which would mean the PM would have to rely on Labour.news.sky.com
As for Gove opining that "the economy will grind to a halt because people will be too scared to go out of their doors" if this is the best tripe he can come up with in support of this policy, it 's about time he was put out to grass.