LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[Alfie1014]

Some photos have appeared on Twitter of some Mk4s in Wabtec painted into IC Swallow style livery with dark grey doors.

(Photo credits to Steve Froggatt who’s original photos have been used on twitter!)

https://twitter.com/TrainsHb/status/1509478340687761419/photo/1

They’re not for TfW are they, as the colours are quite close?

 

[northernbelle]

They’re not for TfW are they, as the colours are quite close?

The colours look more like the LNER shades to me - it might be the photo but the window colours looks to be the very deep red found in First Class on the Azumas.

 

[Class360/1]

The livery looks awesome!

 

[_toommm_]

Some photos have appeared on Twitter of some Mk4s in Wabtec painted into IC Swallow style livery with dark grey doors.

(Photo credits to Steve Froggatt who’s original photos have been used on twitter!)

https://twitter.com/TrainsHb/status/1509478340687761419/photo/1

They were moving some MK4 coaches around on Tuesday morning still in Grand Central livery with the resident Gronk 08669. Does anyone know if this was intended to be a GC set originally please?

 

[DanNCL]

XC’s 43384 has also appeared in the base of the same livery at Laira. I do wonder if the HST powercar and the Mark 4s both going into these colours at the same time isn’t a coincidence, and is perhaps something related to GBR?

 

[43102EMR]

XC’s 43384 has also appeared in the base of the same livery at Laira. I do wonder if the HST powercar and the Mark 4s both going into these colours at the same time isn’t a coincidence, and is perhaps something related to GBR?

Probably just a coincidence…

It would seem the tweet has now been deleted.

 

[realemil]

Probably just a coincidence…

It would seem the tweet has now been deleted.

Both tweets appear to be deleted now (MK4s and the HST powercar).

 

[43096]

XC’s 43384 has also appeared in the base of the same livery at Laira. I do wonder if the HST powercar and the Mark 4s both going into these colours at the same time isn’t a coincidence, and is perhaps something related to GBR?

It’s nothing to do with GBR.

 

[Goldfish62]

Both tweets appear to be deleted now (MK4s and the HST powercar).

It could of course be that they were posted a day early in error.

 

[fgwrich]

Both tweets appear to be deleted now (MK4s and the HST powercar).

Mk4 Tweet no doubt deleted after the original author had got in touch (I've credited the author in my post). The Power car was no doubt leaked and has swiftly and correctly been removed as a result.

 

[realemil]

Mk4 Tweet no doubt deleted after the original author had got in touch (I've credited the author in my post).

Makes sense now as to why it got deleted - thought the tweeter was the original author, I guess not!

The Power car was no doubt leaked and has swiftly and correctly been removed as a result.

Without a doubt, but now that it's online there's no hiding it.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Doesn’t seem like much of a coincidence to me..

EDIT: I’m also reading that this could be a sign that CrossCountry HSTs are coming to an end..

 

[greyman42]

Well to be fair the some MOMs will be based there as well as other NR staff. Plus will be used as a training area for other MOMs and NR staff based on the LNE route and others.

OK. I thought that only signallers worked there. What is a MOM?

 

[Milo T.K]

Mobile operations manager

OK. I thought that only signallers worked there. What is a MOM?

 

[43301]

Doesn’t seem like much of a coincidence to me..

EDIT: I’m also reading that this could be a sign that CrossCountry HSTs are coming to an end..

Coming up to 40 years since HSTs were introduced on the main XC route, so it could be to commemorate that?

 

[800001]

The colours look more like the LNER shades to me - it might be the photo but the window colours looks to be the very deep red found in First Class on the Azumas.

Intercity swallow livery to pair up with 91119.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I was going to say, it’s probably a one off livery for 119 to pull and the rest will get something else. Although knowing what Virgin/LNER did with 91101 FS, it probably won’t take long for them to become separate.

 

[DanNCL]

I was going to say, it’s probably a one off livery for 119 to pull and the rest will get something else. Although knowing what Virgin/LNER did with 91101 FS, it probably won’t take long for them to become separate.

The Virgin example you give with 91101 isn't the first time a one off livery has been applied to both loco and stock, only for them to be split a few weeks later. It happened three times in the East Coast era - once with 91101 and the original Flying Scotsman branding, once with 91107 and the Skyfall branding, and once with 91125 and the Sky branding. Of course also looking back to livery changeover periods, it was common throughout them all for the loco to be in one livery and the stock to be in the other.

Such swaps happen when dictated by maintenance requirements. Generally locos and sets are kept together for as long as possible without splitting them, as there's no benefit to splitting them when it isn't required. Loco swaps can be done quickly when needed, indeed I've seen it happen at Kings Cross during a standard turnaround time before. Over the last 30 years it is almost certain that every 91 will have been paired with every Mark 4 set at some point.

 

[43102EMR]

I was going to say, it’s probably a one off livery for 119 to pull and the rest will get something else. Although knowing what Virgin/LNER did with 91101 FS, it probably won’t take long for them to become separate.

It was stated that the 225 sets will be getting a new livery, so it’s possible this could be it? Unless like you said, it’s a one-off with the others to receive a completely different livery.

 

[yorksrob]

Doesn’t seem like much of a coincidence to me..

EDIT: I’m also reading that this could be a sign that CrossCountry HSTs are coming to an end..

Given that the voyager fleet is inadequate, and there aren't yet any suitable trains to augment them, it wouldn't surprise me if the government, which is only interested in financial savings, scraps them early.

 

[St. Paddy]

Are all the Mark 4s due a C6 overhaul, or today’s equivalent and are therefore getting the repaint?

 

[Kieran1990]

Would love to see the GNER livery again! Hoping LNER will play a nod to all the previous operators. Think that’s about 7 liveries isn’t it?

 

[Steddenm]

Would love to see the GNER livery again! Hoping LNER will play a nod to all the previous operators. Think that’s about 7 liveries isn’t it?

I think too many liveries would confuse the general passenger public.

I can see the InterCity livery working, and maybe a nod to GNER, but the National Express, East Coast and Virgin liveries wouldn't be too good for them as the train would be announced as "LNER" and the train pulls in is NatX livery. Plus I think that the NatX, EC and Virgin liveries would be copyright of the respective owners and trademarks. The InterCity livery is owned by the Government and the GNER one is from a defunct company (Sea Containers) so don't think they'd be any infringement there.

 

[DanNCL]

I think too many liveries would confuse the general passenger public.

I can see the InterCity livery working, and maybe a nod to GNER, but the National Express, East Coast and Virgin liveries wouldn't be too good for them as the train would be announced as "LNER" and the train pulls in is NatX livery. Plus I think that the NatX, EC and Virgin liveries would be copyright of the respective owners and trademarks. The InterCity livery is owned by the Government and the GNER one is from a defunct company (Sea Containers) so don't think they'd be any infringement there.

The only livery they'd potentially have issues with is National Express - as the only component of the 225 fleet to ever carry that livery was 91111, now in the special WW1 livery, I don't think it'd be much of a loss for that livery not to make another appearance on the ECML as doing so would require it being applied to something that never carried it previously. The rights to East Coast livery and branding are owned by the DFT. The rights to GNER are actually now owned by Arriva, but following the failure of their open access bid they'd likely not have an issue with giving those rights up. The Virgin livery of course is already carried by the Mark 4 fleet, as long as the Virgin logo didn't appear there'd be nothing Virgin could do about it.

 

[YorksLad12]

Why on earth would anyone want to paid a trainset in NatEx or East Coast liveries?

I wouldn't mind seeing a 'stealth bomber' again though. That livery worked really well on the class 373s.

 

[fgwrich]

Why on earth would anyone want to paid a trainset in NatEx or East Coast liveries?

I wouldn't mind seeing a 'stealth bomber' again though. That livery worked really well on the class 373s.

God knows. The NXEC era - one of the most depressing era’s on the East Coast, only thankfully made better when they relinquished the franchise and DOR took over!

 

[Mikey C]

Why on earth would anyone want to paid a trainset in NatEx or East Coast liveries?

I wouldn't mind seeing a 'stealth bomber' again though. That livery worked really well on the class 373s.

It would be like, in their last few months, painting a Networker in Connex livery

 

[Rhydgaled]

Why on earth would anyone want to paid a trainset in NatEx or East Coast liveries?

I actually think that, aside from the contrasting colour on the passenger doors, East Coast's rebranded version of the NatEx livery wasn't too bad; better than the standard version of VTEC livery, on the locos and DVTs at least. I presume 91111 was the only IC225 vehicle ever to carry that livery though.

 

[Spartacus]

Ah, yes, the unpainted aluminium window frames. Like the HST Mk3s, they appear to have been painted over as well (GNER era perhaps?). I also have my doubts about the lower colour used as they appear to have made the mistake of going all white when it should be off white.

It's certainly a different shade to the white above the red line. I'm still not sure it's 100% right, but no doubt a bit of brake dust will sort that out.

 

[capital12]

It's certainly a different shade to the white above the red line. I'm still not sure it's 100% right, but no doubt a bit of brake dust will sort that out.

But it’s only potentially not right if it’s actually InterCity livery?! As pointed out above, what would be the dark grey around the windows actually looks to be very dark red - so although clearly based on IC, it doesn’t appear it is IC, so the colours are possibly right as it’s a new livery! No brake dust required! Lol.