LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[Goldfish62]

But it’s only potentially not right if it’s actually InterCity livery?! As pointed out above, what would be the dark grey around the windows actually looks to be very dark red - so although clearly based on IC, it doesn’t appear it is IC, so the colours are possibly right as it’s a new livery! No brake dust required! Lol.

Another indication that this is not intended to be an exact copy of InterCity livery is the thin grey lining above the windows.

 

[mvm03]

Am I right in saying that for a time that after 1N36 had arrived at York, the 91 forming it did a round trip to Darlington before forming 1Y00 the following morning? Does this still happen or does it just stable at York now?

 

[DanNCL]

Am I right in saying that for a time that after 1N36 had arrived at York, the 91 forming it did a round trip to Darlington before forming 1Y00 the following morning? Does this still happen or does it just stable at York now?

That happened for a short period (two weeks?) whilst work was carried out in York station overnight. The set normally stables in York station, usually platform 6.

 

[mvm03]

That happened for a short period (two weeks?) whilst work was carried out in York station overnight. The set normally stables in York station, usually platform 6.

Oh right I see cheers.

 

[800001]

Am I right in saying that for a time that after 1N36 had arrived at York, the 91 forming it did a round trip to Darlington before forming 1Y00 the following morning? Does this still happen or does it just stable at York now?

It did it for 1 night. Then after that it stabled at Doncaster.
Common platform to stable lately is platform 5.
Stabling all depends on which platforms/lines are blocked by Network Rail.

 

[43094]

It was planned to do it for four nights. A MK4 only did it for one night, though - the other nights it ran to Doncaster and back instead.

 

[Helvellyn]

But it’s only potentially not right if it’s actually InterCity livery?! As pointed out above, what would be the dark grey around the windows actually looks to be very dark red - so although clearly based on IC, it doesn’t appear it is IC, so the colours are possibly right as it’s a new livery! No brake dust required! Lol.

Which makes sense. The Azumas have the same dark red around the windows, albeit with some inlaid lining. It was mentioned up thread that the Mk 4s need a repaint - under those VTEC vinyls isn't it still East Coast grey? Adopting an InterCity style design albeit in LNER colours is a nice nod.

The grey doors match the Azuma colours to.

 

[AndyDeltic19]

Belmont Yard - Thursday 24/3 - Present:
91116
91131
91118 - The Fusiliers - plate still attached
91125
91112
91115 - Blaydon Races - plate still attached

Regards
Marcus

Hi Marcus. can I just ask if the order they are written is the order they are parked please? I passed on trains yesterday and the four nearest the Doncaster end were easily seen but the numbers obscured although I noted Blaydon Races was definitely the northern end loco by virtue of it still being named. Also are these visible from any road vantage point making it worth a walk from Doncaster station? Thanks for any help.

 

[DanNCL]

Hi Marcus. can I just ask if the order they are written is the order they are parked please? I passed on trains yesterday and the four nearest the Doncaster end were easily seen but the numbers obscured although I noted Blaydon Races was definitely the northern end loco by virtue of it still being named. Also are these visible from any road vantage point making it worth a walk from Doncaster station? Thanks for any help.

I believe that is the order they’re in but I’m not 100% certain. 91121 is sometimes at the far end of the lineup (next to 91116), but moves around the yard quite a bit.

There isn’t any vantage point unfortunately, a passing train is the closest you can get.

 

[AndyDeltic19]

I believe that is the order they’re in but I’m not 100% certain. 91121 is sometimes at the far end of the lineup (next to 91116), but moves around the yard quite a bit.

There isn’t any vantage point unfortunately, a passing train is the closest you can get.

OK, thanks for that. At least I know not to try and walk there for nothing.

 

[yorksrob]

Quick query here.

This coming Sunday there are engineering works between Doncaster and Leeds, precluding electric traction.

Do the 225's which would normally go to Leeds swap with other services in lieu, in this circumstance, or are they rested for the day ?

 

[800001]

Quick query here.

This coming Sunday there are engineering works between Doncaster and Leeds, precluding electric traction.

Do the 225's which would normally go to Leeds swap with other services in lieu, in this circumstance, or are they tested for the day ?

Rested at Neville hill for weekend

 

[yorksrob]

Rested at Neville hill for weekend

Ah well, they probably deserve it !

 

[TheEdge]

A little trip on the ECML ruined by 91105 sitting down with a loss of power for over an hour near Doncaster. What a pleasant experience of the swansong of the 91s...

 

[amazon1675]

Would it be possible to run sets with a 91 at each end?

 

[hexagon789]

A little trip on the ECML ruined by 91105 sitting down with a loss of power for over an hour near Doncaster. What a pleasant experience of the swansong of the 91s...

You sure 91105 is to blame? There is a signalling failure between Leeds and Doncaster affecting several services?

Would it be possible to run sets with a 91 at each end?

No - power supply couldn’t cope for one.

 

[43096]

You sure 91105 is to blame? There is a signalling failure between Leeds and Doncaster affecting several services?


No - power supply couldn’t cope for one.

And you can’t couple a 91 to the couplers within the Mark 4 sets.

 

[TheEdge]

You sure 91105 is to blame? There is a signalling failure between Leeds and Doncaster affecting several services?

Yes, because the poor driver was walking back and forwards tripping things in and out in the 91. This was yesterday evening.

 

[DanNCL]

Would it be possible to run sets with a 91 at each end?

No - power supply couldn’t cope for one.

In theory it’s possible and has been done during testing but because of power supply limitations only one would be able to powered up at any time, the second would be dead weight. For the relatively few occasions that a 91 blocks the main running lines for an extended period of time it’s not worth the hassle - the 91s might not be the most reliable things on the network but they’re not unreliable enough to justify carrying a second loco everywhere as a backup.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, because the poor driver was walking back and forwards tripping things in and out in the 91. This was yesterday evening.

Apologies, I thought you meant this morning

The disruption Leeds-Doncaster today making a coincidental reason for issues at Doncaster today.

In theory it’s possible and has been done during testing but because of power supply limitations only one would be able to powered up at any time, the second would be dead weight. For the relatively few occasions that a 91 blocks the main running lines for an extended period of time it’s not worth the hassle - the 91s might not be the most reliable things on the network but they’re not unreliable enough to justify carrying a second loco everywhere as a backup.

I don't think the power supply would cope with double 91s on all 225 sets in service. Especially when a lot more trains draw overhead power today than during testing in the late-1980s/early-1990s.

 

[DanNCL]

I don't think the power supply would cope with double 91s on all 225 sets in service. Especially when a lot more trains draw overhead power today than during testing in the late-1980s/early-1990s.

It would if the second 91 is dead in tow as that wouldn’t add to power draw, it would just make the train more sluggish. It isn’t worth the hassle though.

Tests with two powered up at the same time have been done overnight as recently as 8-9 years ago, as part of the tests to ensure the OHLE could handle two pantographs raised at the same time at 125mph on a 10 car 80x formation before any of the latter had been delivered.

 

[hexagon789]

It would if the second 91 is dead in tow as that wouldn’t add to power draw, it would just make the train more sluggish. It isn’t worth the hassle though.

Tests with two powered up at the same time have been done overnight as recently as 8-9 years ago, as part of the tests to ensure the OHLE could handle two pantographs raised at the same time at 125mph on a 10 car 80x formation before any of the latter had been delivered.

Well yes, having the other "dead" wouldn't have the same power supply considerations - but what would be the point in normal day-to-day working? A 91 is not far off double the weight of a DVT (84 tonnes vs 45 tonnes).

And you can’t couple a 91 to the couplers within the Mark 4 sets.

Another good point. Which raises the issue of either expensive mods or sourcing several extra TOEs.

 

[Steddenm]

In theory if a DVT died and was removed from a Mk4 set, could another 91 be substituted as a makeshift DVT and control the set or would the leading 91 have to be powered? For example

<<<< direction of travel <<<<<<
91 + Mk4 set + 91
Pant ---------------------- Pant
Down ---------------- Up

 

[xotGD]

In theory if a DVT died and was removed from a Mk4 set, could another 91 be substituted as a makeshift DVT and control the set or would the leading 91 have to be powered? For example

<<<< direction of travel <<<<<<
91 + Mk4 set + 91
Pant ---------------------- Pant
Down ---------------- Up

Or just run the 91 round so that it is on the front of the train.

 

[DanNCL]

Well yes, having the other "dead" wouldn't have the same power supply considerations - but what would be the point in normal day-to-day working? A 91 is not far off double the weight of a DVT (84 tonnes vs 45 tonnes).

It was in response to a suggestion of having two 91s in the consist should one fail. I agree there's no point.

In theory if a DVT died and was removed from a Mk4 set, could another 91 be substituted as a makeshift DVT and control the set or would the leading 91 have to be powered? For example

<<<< direction of travel <<<<<<
91 + Mk4 set + 91
Pant ---------------------- Pant
Down ---------------- Up

The 91 would have to be attached to the DVT, the DVT acting as a translator vehicle. The only vehicles in a Mark 4 set that a 91 can couple directly to are Coach B and the DVT. It's easier to replace the DVT with the spare DVT.

 

[Steddenm]

It was in response to a suggestion of having two 91s in the consist should one fail. I agree there's no point.


The 91 would have to be attached to the DVT, the DVT acting as a translator vehicle. The only vehicles in a Mark 4 set that a 91 can couple directly to are Coach B and the DVT. It's easier to replace the DVT with the spare DVT.

Thanks for the response. Just something I pondered.

 

[hexagon789]

It was in response to a suggestion of having two 91s in the consist should one fail. I agree there's no point.

I realised that sorry, I was sort of generalising that there's no point in it.

In theory if a DVT died and was removed from a Mk4 set, could another 91 be substituted as a makeshift DVT and control the set or would

The 91s have drophead buckeye couplers, the Mk4s (except DVT nose end and TSOE outer end have tightlocks). So you couldn't couple the 91 except to either the outer end of a TSOE (the end without the gangway connection) or the nose end of a DVT.

 

[BR 45111]

Hi Marcus. can I just ask if the order they are written is the order they are parked please? I passed on trains yesterday and the four nearest the Doncaster end were easily seen but the numbers obscured although I noted Blaydon Races was definitely the northern end loco by virtue of it still being named. Also are these visible from any road vantage point making it worth a walk from Doncaster station? Thanks for any help.

Hi
Sorry for late reply , numbers as given starting at the London end with 91121 the one I missed of my original list , the first in the queue.

Regards
Marcus

 

[mvm03]

2 91s at York at the same time today after 91124 on 1D07 was diverted to York due to signalling issues near Adwick, arriving on P10. 91101 followed closely behind on the usual 1N81 arriving at P6. Very rare thing to happen these days!

 

[AndyDeltic19]

Hi
Sorry for late reply , numbers as given starting at the London end with 91121 the one I missed of my original list , the first in the queue.

Regards
Marcus

Thanks for that, I normally end up trying to count the pantographs and if all are there then great, but always get distracted or too many wagons in the way!!