LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[DanNCL]

Interesting. Good riddance to them. Them traction motors whining don't half give me the ear ache when I'm bombing up Stoke Bank.

I presume you're referring to from in the cab of the 91, as of course the Mark 4s themselves don't have traction motors. You won't hear the whine of the traction motors anywhere other than onboard the 91 itself.

Without a shadow of a doubt that the 80xs are an improvement for the drivers compared to the 91+Mark 4 sets. For the passengers it's the other way round!

If you don’t like the traction sound of the 91, just sit elsewhere of Coach B… the Azuma’s traction motors are far more noticeable.

Even from coach B you'll only really hear the 91 when you're in a tunnel or under a station roof! It's nothing compared to the racket you'd hear from the leading carriage of anything hauled by a 37 or 68.

 

[Ashxmufcx]

I presume you're referring to from in the cab of the 91, as of course the Mark 4s themselves don't have traction motors. You won't hear the whine of the traction motors anywhere other than onboard the 91 itself.

Without a shadow of a doubt that the 80xs are an improvement for the drivers compared to the 91+Mark 4 sets. For the passengers it's the other way round!


Even from coach B you'll only really hear the 91 when you're in a tunnel or under a station roof! It's nothing compared to the racket you'd hear from the leading carriage of anything hauled by a 37 or 68.

Yep, the cab environment far superior for us in the 80xs not to mention way quicker to mobilise/immobilise etc

But from a punters perspective, the Mark 4s so much comfier IMO especially in 1st.

 

[TreacleMiller]

Yep, the cab environment far superior for us in the 80xs not to mention way quicker to mobilise/immobilise etc

But from a punters perspective, the Mark 4s so much comfier IMO especially in 1st.

Not sure why you're asking publicly? It's an open secret within the driving grade, riding staff and at Neville Hill when/if they are going. Your DTM can tell you more than here.

What I've seen is the drop off in talk of the replacements with Mk5s + Trimodes or the Class 397 style replacements, or additional 8XX's.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I presume you're referring to from in the cab of the 91, as of course the Mark 4s themselves don't have traction motors. You won't hear the whine of the traction motors anywhere other than onboard the 91 itself.

Without a shadow of a doubt that the 80xs are an improvement for the drivers compared to the 91+Mark 4 sets. For the passengers it's the other way round!

Even from coach B you'll only really hear the 91 when you're in a tunnel or under a station roof! It's nothing compared to the racket you'd hear from the leading carriage of anything hauled by a 37 or 68.

I reckon OP was referring to the hum of the MK4 carriages as to confirm the set is all connected to the DVT and locomotive. @Ashxmufcx , if that is indeed the case, believe me: You're better off on an IC225 that does make that sound than one that doesn't, else your train isn't going anywhere.

 

[TreacleMiller]

I reckon OP was referring to the hum of the MK4 carriages as to confirm the set is all connected to the DVT and locomotive. @Ashxmufcx , if that is indeed the case, believe me: You're better off on an IC225 that does make that sound than one that doesn't, else your train isn't going anywhere.

Cab environment as a driver, not a passenger is what's being discussed.

In which case, I'll sit in the 800s all day long for a drive compared to a 91 that's loud, shaking to bits inside, whistling from the door, blowing cold air when it's meant to be hot and hot when it's meant to be cold.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Cab environment as a driver, not a passenger is what's being discussed.

In which case, I'll sit in the 800s all day long for a drive compared to a 91 that's loud, shaking to bits inside, whistling from the door, blowing cold air when it's meant to be hot and hot when it's meant to be cold.

Oh I see, yes, quite.

 

[yorksrob]

If it's a "open secret" that the mk4's are about to be removed without replacement (as seems to be a depressingly familiar state of affairs in this country) it's about time that LNER came clean about their plans in public.

Maybe then questions can be asked at the relevant select committee

 

[Ashxmufcx]

Not sure why you're asking publicly? It's an open secret within the driving grade, riding staff and at Neville Hill when/if they are going. Your DTM can tell you more than here.

What I've seen is the drop off in talk of the replacements with Mk5s + Trimodes or the Class 397 style replacements, or r

Not sure why you're asking publicly? It's an open secret within the driving grade, riding staff and at Neville Hill when/if they are going. Your DTM can tell you more than here.

What I've seen is the drop off in talk of the replacements with Mk5s + Trimodes or the Class 397 style replacements, or additional 8XX's.

Really? Trust me there are enthusiasts out there that know far more then Drivers and DTM's. Bloody gold dust for intelligence gathering, their like spies!

 

[DanNCL]

If it's a "open secret" that the mk4's are about to be removed without replacement (as seems to be a depressingly familiar state of affairs in this country) it's about time that LNER came clean about their plans in public.

Maybe then questions can be asked at the relevant select committee

Exactly.

 

[AJD]

Cab environment of an 80x may be more impressive at first glance, but extremely boring trains to drive in my opinion and I don't feel as remotely engaged as I did with HST/Mk4s. While they're still around, I try to swap on to Class 91 turns where possible!

 

[Northern_guard]

Cab environment of an 80x may be more impressive at first glance, but extremely boring trains to drive in my opinion and I don't feel as remotely engaged as I did with HST/Mk4s. While they're still around, I try to swap on to Class 91 turns where possible!

Agreed. I could teach my Grandma to drive an 80x in a few hours, and she has dementia.
The 91s are far more satisfying to drive. I know they're as good as gone, but I hope they stay.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Agreed. I could teach my Grandma to drive an 80x in a few hours, and she has dementia.
The 91s are far more satisfying to drive. I know they're as good as gone, but I hope they stay.

Surely that’s got to be a good thing for the Azumas.

 

[Northern_guard]

Surely that’s got to be a good thing for the Azumas.

It is in a sense they're easy to get to grips with, but I find them much more boring to drive than the 91s. They require more engagement. Some people like that, some don't.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I see that the 09:06 London King's Cross to York service is being operated by an Azuma today, rather than the usual Intercity 225. Anyone know why this is please?

 

[800001]

I see that the 09:06 London King's Cross to York service is being operated by an Azuma today, rather than the usual Intercity 225. Anyone know why this is please?

One diagram of the mk4 is covered by an Azuma most days. They struggle to get 5 sets in use daily.

Could also be down to keeping mileage down on the mk4.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

One diagram of the mk4 is covered by an Azuma most days. They struggle to get 5 sets in use daily.

Could also be down to keeping mileage down on the mk4.

Thanks - wasn't aware that was the case.

 

[Liverpool 507]

I see that the 09:06 London King's Cross to York service is being operated by an Azuma today, rather than the usual Intercity 225. Anyone know why this is please?

There was a fatality last night at Fitzwilliam involving a Mark 4 set. This may be the reason.

 

[43094]

It’s due to the fatality last night meaning a set is currently out of service.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Realtime Trains | 7Q76 0440 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 30/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 7Q76 0440 departure from Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 30/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

7Q76 Belmont Yard - Newport Docks on Monday 30th. Supposedly 3x 91s, anyone able to shed further light on it?
Much appreciated

 

[800001]

Realtime Trains | 7Q76 0440 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 30/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 7Q76 0440 departure from Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 30/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

7Q76 Belmont Yard - Newport Docks on Monday 30th. Supposedly 3x 91s, anyone able to shed further light on it?
Much appreciated

91112, 115 and 125 are the locos involved.

 

[_toommm_]

Out of curiosity, why is the headcode a 7? Do the 91s have gauging issues somewhere on their trip?

 

[DanNCL]

With these three going for scrap and 131 going to Bo’ness, this will leave only 116, 118 and 121 at Belmont

 

[St. Paddy]

Out of curiosity, why is the headcode a 7? Do the 91s have gauging issues somewhere on their trip?

7 indicates the speed limit, no more than 45mph

 

[DanNCL]

Out of curiosity, why is the headcode a 7? Do the 91s have gauging issues somewhere on their trip?

7 indicates the speed limit, no more than 45mph

In this case it also indicates that the move isn’t being treated as a standard light loco move. Recent Stadler deliveries from Europe have had 6Qxx headcodes and, like this move, been registered as departmental workings. To me this looks like a 45 mph working of vehicles that are out of commission, and possibly barrier wagons too.

Gauging issues would have been indicated by an X headcode, in this case it would have been 7X76 instead of 7Q76.

 

[Ewan M]

With these three going for scrap and 131 going to Bo’ness, this will leave only 116, 118 and 121 at Belmont

116, 118 and 121 will be Newport bound as well eventually. Will have to assume that the nameplates on both 115 and 118 will be removed at the site prior to dismantling as was the case in previous occasions

 

[DanNCL]

Updated fleet list for the 91s, as will be the case after the upcoming moves:
91101 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91102 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2021
91103 - Scrapped CF Booth Rotherham 2022
91104 - Scrapped CF Booth Rotherham 2022
91105 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91106 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91107 - VTEC Red - Operational with LNER
91108 - Scrapped CF Booth Rotherham 2022
91109 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91110 - Battle of Britain Memorial Flight - Operational with LNER
91111 - For the Fallen - Operational with LNER
91112 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91113 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2021
91114 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91115 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91116 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91117 - Europhoenix - Stored Barrow Hill
91118 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91119 - Intercity Swallow - Operational with LNER
91120 - Europhoenix - On display Crewe Heritage Centre
91121 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91122 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2022
91124 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91125 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91126 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2021
91127 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91128 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2022
91129 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2021
91130 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91131 - VTEC Red - Preserved Bo’ness
91132 - Scrapped Sims Beeston 2021

116, 118 and 121 will be Newport bound as well eventually. Will have to assume that the nameplates on both 115 and 118 will be removed at the site prior to dismantling as was the case in previous occasions

116, 118 and 121 could be following as early as Friday. Possible that 131 may be alone at Belmont for a few days before moving to Bo’ness and leaving the site devoid of 91s for the first time in 3 years. 84001 has already left Bo’ness in preparation for 91131’s arrival.

Belmont will be playing a role in the delivery of the new Tyne & Wear Metro fleet, I wonder if the sudden departure of the remaining 91s from the site, when there’s been no movement there for nearly 2 years, is to make space for those deliveries.

 

[NORMAN471]

Updated fleet list for the 91s, as will be the case after the upcoming moves:
91101 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91102 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2021
91103 - Scrapped CF Booth Rotherham 2022
91104 - Scrapped CF Booth Rotherham 2022
91105 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91106 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91107 - VTEC Red - Operational with LNER
91108 - Scrapped CF Booth Rotherham 2022
91109 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91110 - Battle of Britain Memorial Flight - Operational with LNER
91111 - For the Fallen - Operational with LNER
91112 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91113 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2021
91114 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91115 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91116 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91117 - Europhoenix - Stored Barrow Hill
91118 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91119 - Intercity Swallow - Operational with LNER
91120 - Europhoenix - On display Crewe Heritage Centre
91121 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91123 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2022
91124 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91125 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2023
91126 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2021
91127 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91128 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2022
91129 - Scrapped Sims Newport 2021
91130 - LNER Intercity - Operational with LNER
91131 - VTEC Red - Preserved Bo’ness
91132 - Scrapped Sims Beeston 2021


116, 118 and 121 could be following as early as Friday. Possible that 131 may be alone at Belmont for a few days before moving to Bo’ness and leaving the site devoid of 91s for the first time in 3 years. 84001 has already left Bo’ness in preparation for 91131’s arrival.

Belmont will be playing a role in the delivery of the new Tyne & Wear Metro fleet, I wonder if the sudden departure of the remaining 91s from the site, when there’s been no movement there for nearly 2 years, is to make space for those deliveries.

91123 should read 91122

 

[DanNCL]

91123 should read 91122

It should indeed, now corrected

 

[800001]

ROG loco 37601 currently shunting the 91s at Belmont, it’s just dragged 91131 into Doncaster Station (1230)

 

[AndyDeltic19]

I went to Doncaster yesterday to tick these off for the year, not knowing it would be a final farewell!! Lucky I didn't leave it until next weekend!!