London Buses Discussion

[Ghostbus]

Given the choice .... TfL .... would ever have had them.

It's a tendered network, so what operators would have wanted is irrelevant. But I am curious what you mean by this statement. TfL ran the design competition, and had the right to terminate the project at multiple stages, up to and including before committing to full production.

Is it being suggested Boris just overrode objections of TfL? In which case, I will repeat my earlier call, is having a London Mayor adding any value.as an extra layer of management between the sources of TfL's funding and the hopefully professional people spending it?

If it's just hindsight based on how things panned out, well.....20/20, right?

 

[Edsmith]

Dismissing actual facts and views of those who operate them as "nonsense" is what I object to.

And there's plenty of people who operate them who like them but of course they don't get mentioned.

It's just the same pointless arguments regurgitated over and over again.

Indeed, but it seems on here we're not allowed to like them.

I'd better kit myself in body armour before I post my views of the ludicrous ugly monstrosity now running the 358 route!!

I agree about the 'fake trams' on the 358 although in fairness I've not yet been on one.

 

[Bedford OB]

And there's plenty of people who operate them who like them but of course they don't get mentioned.

It's just the same pointless arguments regurgitated over and over again.


I agree about the 'fake trams' on the 358 although in fairness I've not yet been on one.

You are quite right. I live on an NRM operated service, use them a great deal (I suspect a lot more than some of the people who see fit to remark on here), and don't recognise a lot of the negative comments, many of which just seem to me to be superannuated cheap shots at a former Mayor. The service is good, I talk to the staff, who in my experience are generally quite content with them, and management I have spoken to don't seem have the issues suggested at all.

 

[Edvid]

Bus Working Timetable updates (Adiona) are back, per TfL Tech Forum.

 

[talldave]

First ride on a new 358 today. I'm not the only one who finds the exterior unappealing - a lady got on and proclaimed to the driver "this is an ugly bus!"

The ride is great, the brakes were excessively snappy - not sure if that's down to some over-enthusiatic regenerative braking or just driver unfamiliarity - but we didn't stay on as long as we'd planned as a result.

The seats are great, but the stupid low-level windows are just inappropriate. That issue will undoubtedly come to a head in summer.

The destination displays are fantastic, although it's a bit pointless showing service status for rail lines the bus goes nowhere near and none for the lines it does intersect with.

 

[MotCO]

Metrobus have 20 IE Trams for the 358, yet only 10 have seen service, and of these 10, 2 have not seen in service since 23 November. Is there any reason for the delay into service of the others? Lack of staff training? Retrieval from where they were stored (Swindon?)? Waiting to dust them down from lack of use / computer updates?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Daft question I know but I was following a Gemini 3 Volvo over Waterloo Bridge in London recently and noticed a TfL sticker on the back that said something like 'This vehicle is restricted to the local limit' so presumably considering where it was can only max out at 20mph, but is it fitted with a limiter so it can only do 20mph irrelevant thus the vehicle only being able to do inner city routes?

 

[dodecahedron67]

Daft question I know but I was following a Gemini 3 Volvo over Waterloo Bridge in London recently and noticed a TfL sticker on the back that said something like 'This vehicle is restricted to the local limit' so presumably considering where it was can only max out at 20mph, but is it fitted with a limiter so it can only do 20mph irrelevant thus the vehicle only being able to do inner city routes?

TfL & Operators are rolling out ISA (Intelligence Speed Assist?) which uses GPS and a database to electronically limit the speed of the bus to that of the road it is driving on

So on a 20mph road limited to 20
30mph road limited to 30 etc

 

[MotCO]

As of today, 4 December, the follow IE Trams have made an appearance on route 358:

	First appeared
IE1	4 December 2024
IE2	4 December 2024
IE3	29 November 2024
IE4	20 November 2024
IE5	-
IE6	20 November 2024
IE7	-
IE8	20 November 2024
IE9	4 December 2024
IE10	20 November 2024
IE11	20 November 2024
IE12	-
IE13	20 November 2024
IE14	20 November 2024
IE15	20 November 2024
IE16	20 November 2024
IE17	-
IE18	-
IE19	4 December 2024
IE20	-

Six have yet to make an appearance, and those that have been introduced seem to be regularly used. LVF shows some of them working long hours, e.g. IE13 worked from 05.52 to 23.21 on 27 November, although it is possible that it returned to the garage for some of that time - the web page only shows 'From' and 'Until' times and does not show any intervening gaps.

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

 

[fairysdad]

Regarding the NRMs/NBfLs - if an operator who run these on a route decided that they would fork out for a second person, would they be allowed to run them as designed with the back door open? (This is a purely theoretical question by the way; I doubt any operators would do this!)

 

[galwhv69]

As of today, 4 December, the follow IE Trams have made an appearance on route 358:



Six have yet to make an appearance, and those that have been introduced seem to be regularly used. LVF shows some of them working long hours, e.g. IE13 worked from 05.52 to 23.21 on 27 November, although it is possible that it returned to the garage for some of that time - the web page only shows 'From' and 'Until' times and does not show any intervening gaps.

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

There is a command that shows trips worked. You do need a login to access it though.

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

It shows that IE13 did likely return to the garage for 3 hours or so

 

[traji00]

Regarding the NRMs/NBfLs - if an operator who run these on a route decided that they would fork out for a second person, would they be allowed to run them as designed with the back door open? (This is a purely theoretical question by the way; I doubt any operators would do this!)

Not as such — the grab pole for the former rear platform has been removed (although this could be refitted).
However, LT517 onwards have a sliding rear door, as there were intended as One Person Operation from the outset.

 

[MotCO]

I saw GoAhead BDE51 on delivery on the M25 heading east near Godstone today. The rear has a large number of ventilation panels and, as usual, no lower rear window.

 

[Snow1964]

Appears Metroline BYD double deck BDE3012 has been photographed and uploaded on Instagram
(not my photo)

Apologies if this has already been discussed

@thesouthcoastdriver on Instagram: "Looks better in the sun #buses #busdriver #bus #ev #byd #ldn #london #metroline @metrolineltd"

87 likes, 0 comments - thesouthcoastdriver on November 26, 2024: "Looks better in the sun #buses #busdriver #bus #ev #byd #ldn #london #metroline @metrolineltd".

www.instagram.com

 

[londonbridge]

Currently on an SL7 where the ibus has just played an announcement saying that “From the 19th of August, route X26 becomes SL7”…….only sixteen months late…..

 

[MotCO]

LOTS reports the latest tendering results

LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes with the operators listed below: http://www.lots.org.uk/

Route	Current Operator	New Operator	PVR​	Vehicles
30	Metroline	Metroline	TBC​	Existing hybrid double deck
67	London General	Arriva London North	10​	Existing New Routemaster
95	Metroline West	Metroline West	15​	New electric single deck*
231	Metroline	Metroline	7​	Existing diesel double deck
241	Stagecoach East London	Stagecoach East London	13​	Existing hybrid double deck
304	Blue Triangle	Blue Triangle	10​	Existing hybrid double deck
330	Stagecoach East London	Blue Triangle	10​	Existing hybrid double deck
397	Stagecoach East London	Stagecoach East London	6​	Existing diesel single deck
474 (24h)	Stagecoach East London	Blue Triangle	14​	Existing hybrid double deck
491	Metroline	Metroline	9​	New electric single deck
D6	Stagecoach East London	Stagecoach East London	14​	Existing diesel single deck
R9	Metrobus	Metrobus	3​	Existing diesel single deck
W16	Stagecoach East London	Stagecoach East London	10​	Existing diesel single deck

Two stand out points for me. Out of a PVR of over 125, only 24 new electric buses are included, the rest being existing hybrid or diesels. Secondly, route 95 converts from double deck to new electric single deckers when they are delivered.

 

[Kay_M]

LOTS reports the latest tendering results

LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes with the operators listed below: http://www.lots.org.uk/




Two stand out points for me. Out of a PVR of over 125, only 24 new electric buses are included, the rest being existing hybrid or diesels. Secondly, route 95 converts from double deck to new electric single deckers when they are delivered.

This was a similar situation in 2014 when the 112 first came to Metroline. It was a double decker for a few months before it's single deckers arrived autumn of that year.

 

[moogal]

Secondly, route 95 converts from double deck to new electric single deckers when they are delivered.

When did the 95 go double-deck? It's always been single when I've caught it.

 

[PGAT]

When did the 95 go double-deck? It's always been single when I've caught it.

95 is allocated single decks but will temporarily be using hybrid double decks as per the tender result

 

[Acton1991]

Appears Metroline BYD double deck BDE3012 has been photographed and uploaded on Instagram
(not my photo)

Apologies if this has already been discussed

@thesouthcoastdriver on Instagram: "Looks better in the sun #buses #busdriver #bus #ev #byd #ldn #london #metroline @metrolineltd"

87 likes, 0 comments - thesouthcoastdriver on November 26, 2024: "Looks better in the sun #buses #busdriver #bus #ev #byd #ldn #london #metroline @metrolineltd".

www.instagram.com

Is it me or is this a change to where the operator logo is placed? Usually it's at the front. I am still not sure why it's needed as it makes the livery look a bit messy.

 

[MotCO]

LOTS reports the latest tendering results

LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes with the operators listed below: http://www.lots.org.uk/




Two stand out points for me. Out of a PVR of over 125, only 24 new electric buses are included, the rest being existing hybrid or diesels. Secondly, route 95 converts from double deck to new electric single deckers when they are delivered.

There are further tender results on the LOTs website, and again very few new electric buses. Total PVR of at least 74, which are all hybrid or pure diesel; no PVR details available for the new electric buses

Route	Current Operator	New Operator	PVR​	Vehicles
166	Arriva London South	Arriva London South	TBC​	New electric single deck
202	Arriva London South	Arriva London South	16​	Existing hybrid double deck
319	Arriva London South	Arriva London South	19​	Existing electric double deck
H12	London Sovereign	London Sovereign	14​	Existing hybrid double deck
K1	London United	London United	14​	Existing diesel single deck
K3	London United	London United	11​	Existing diesel single deck

 

[PGAT]

The 166’s PVR being unconfirmed is likely TfL negotiating with SCC on an improved service on the Epsom-Banstead leg which they pay for

 

[Mark L]

The 166’s PVR being unconfirmed is likely TfL negotiating with SCC on an improved service on the Epsom-Banstead leg which they pay for

I think it’s probably more accurate to say that SCC makes a contribution towards the costs. It pays about £330k per year to part fund routes 166, 216 and 465.

 

[MotCO]

Route 358:
Two further IEs entered service today for the first time, ie18 and 20, making 16 in total.

	First appeared
IE1	4 December 2024
IE2	4 December 2024
IE3	29 November 2024
IE4	20 November 2024
IE5	-
IE6	20 November 2024
IE7	-
IE8	20 November 2024
IE9	4 December 2024
IE10	20 November 2024
IE11	20 November 2024
IE12	-
IE13	20 November 2024
IE14	20 November 2024
IE15	20 November 2024
IE16	20 November 2024
IE17	-
IE18	19 December 2024
IE19	4 December 2024
IE20	19 December 2024

 

[PGAT]

The first BYD BD11s have entered service on the 320 today

 

[MotCO]

The first BYD BD11s have entered service on the 320 today

Not my photo

LF74 UAB

**FIRST DAY & BRAND NEW** Go Ahead London EBD25e LF74UAB Route 320

www.flickr.com

(Picture of EBD25, reg LF74UAB, a BYD BD11 in Bromley, heading for Biggin Hill Valley)

 

[renegademaster]

Is South Croydon Arriva garage finally getting some newish buses? Quite a few 21 and 22 plate envio400s in the garage when I walked by a few days ago

 

[PGAT]

Is South Croydon Arriva garage finally getting some newish buses? Quite a few 21 and 22 plate envio400s in the garage when I walked by a few days ago

Most of the routes are receiving new buses on their contract renewal which is in a couple months

 

[Pinza68]

Not my photo

LF74 UAB

**FIRST DAY & BRAND NEW** Go Ahead London EBD25e LF74UAB Route 320

www.flickr.com

(Picture of EBD25, reg LF74UAB, a BYD BD11 in Bromley, heading for Biggin Hill Valley)

EBD25, 26 and 30 all seen in service yesterday morning in service on Route 320 through Bromley

 

[Voyager 2953]

To carry on the conversation regarding LTs, I drove them for a long time and I’d say they are one of the best buses I’ve driven. I like pretty much everything about them; they are pretty much the most reliable Hybrids from their era too: lovely visibility in the cab and the air con is sublime. I wish they made more of the shortened versions and added sunroofs to aid with light inside.