London ULEZ, Bristol CAZ and Wales 20 mph pushbacks

[squizzler]

The 20 limit in urban areas not only will, by virtue of more pleasant safer streets, encourage the use of walking and cycling. It also provides the opportunity for other micro mobility such as kick scooters, even Segways, roller skates and skateboards. Deliveries will increasingly be made by cargo bike for small light items.

Even traditional motor vehicles will evolve. Electric cars, particularly I suspect those with brushless motors, don’t mind going low speed, as there are no gears to hunt between.

Even more promising are the “quadricycle” cars. These are lightweight four wheelers that can be used under a motorcycle licence and the new generation are electric. They have similar barriers to adoption as bikes (perceived vulnerability, low speed compared to legacy motor traffic) yet are popular in the EU. Lower speed limits will make them more attractive. Motorists who switch their second household runabout from a legacy car to electric quadricycle eliminate local air pollution and reduce congestion (smaller) and safer to non-motorised traffic.

 

[stuu]

Bad news for anyone who chooses their holiday destination based on speed limits

Cornwall's 20mph speed limit plan will proceed, council says - BBC News

Limits will be reduced across Cornwall, despite government guidance changing.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Krokodil]

Bad news for anyone who chooses their holiday destination based on speed limits

Cornwall's 20mph speed limit plan will proceed, council says - BBC News

Limits will be reduced across Cornwall, despite government guidance changing.

www.bbc.co.uk

Where will he go now? Presumably most of Europe is out of the question.

 

[The Ham]

Bad news for anyone who chooses their holiday destination based on speed limits

Cornwall's 20mph speed limit plan will proceed, council says - BBC News

Limits will be reduced across Cornwall, despite government guidance changing.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's going to take days to drive along the whole length of the A30, so no one will do it!!!

(Yes I know, but I don't want to be held up in traffic when I visit family)

 

[Krokodil]

It's going to take days to drive along the whole length of the A30, so no one will do it!!!

(Yes I know, but I don't want to be held up in traffic when I visit family)

I'm amazed that anyone manages to reach a speed as fast as 20mph on the A30 on a Friday afternoon in the summer. The M5 likewise.

 

[brad465]

Laurence Fox has been arrested on suspicion of conspiring to commit criminal damage to ULEZ cameras:

Laurence Fox arrested after video showing police in his home shared on social media

Actor turned political activist Laurence Fox has been arrested on suspicion of conspiring to commit criminal damage to ULEZ cameras.

news.sky.com

Actor turned political activist Laurence Fox has been arrested on suspicion of conspiring to commit criminal damage to ULEZ cameras.

Fox, who is the leader of the Reclaim Party, said in a social media video shared earlier today that his home was being searched by police officers.

Just before 10.45am, the party posted on X, formerly Twitter, saying: "Live now @LozzaFox is having his house searched by the police."

The post was accompanied by a video of Fox, sitting on his sofa addressing the camera, seemingly with police officers around him.

In the short clip, he says: "Look how many coppers there are around my house."

In another video of Fox at his house, also shared to X, he criticises moves to what he called a "surveillance state".

In a statement, a police spokesperson said: "On Wednesday 4 October officers arrested a 45-year-old man on suspicion of conspiring to commit criminal damage to ULEZ cameras and encouraging or assisting offences to be committed.

"He was arrested in Stockwell and has been taken to a South London police station where he remains in custody."

 

[squizzler]

Who is Lawrence fox? For those of us who prefer Rail Forum, we don’t necessarily know the the names of influencers on mainstream (anti)social medias.

 

[brad465]

Who is Lawrence fox? For those of us who prefer Rail Forum, we don’t necessarily know the the names of influencers on mainstream (anti)social medias.

Former Lewis actor who in recent years has been known for leading the Reclaim party and holding strong views on "wokeness", cancel culture, etc. He also stood for London Mayor in 2021 but lost his deposit.

 

[birchesgreen]

Who is Lawrence fox? For those of us who prefer Rail Forum, we don’t necessarily know the the names of influencers on mainstream (anti)social medias.

Influencer is a bit strong, there are more accurate descriptions but it might get me banned.

He is a mediocre actor who has become a wannabe politician, backed with right wing cash but with a very very poor return on investment.

 

[greyman42]

Whereas the traditional left-wing approach is to throw caution to the wind. In other words "live and let live".

You could of fooled me during covid.

 

[The Ham]

I'm amazed that anyone manages to reach a speed as fast as 20mph on the A30 on a Friday afternoon in the summer. The M5 likewise.

I've always found Friday afternoon soooo much better than other times.

(Yes I know, but then I've got a vested interest!!!)

 

[DC1989]

Because people don't read the manifestos, vote on non-devolved policies in Welsh elections, devolved policies in UK elections, or indeed just go by the colour of the candidate's rosette and how they're Grandad voted.

I've lost count of the number of times that I've told Welsh voters that the 20mph limits were in the 2021 Welsh Labour manifesto and that if they didn't vote Conservative or for a minor Party they voted for them and can't complain now they have neen implemented.

But the conservates also voted for it in the Senedd. Only one Tory member voted against (less than 10% of them!) So it's obviously extremely disingenuous of them now to pretend to be against it - which is clearly just a electioneering tactic (that seems to be failing miserably)

 

[Dai Corner]

But the conservates also voted for it in the Senedd. Only one Tory member voted against (less than 10% of them!) So it's obviously extremely disingenuous of them now to pretend to be against it - which is clearly just a electioneering tactic (that seems to be failing miserably)

When did they vote for it in Senedd? It certainly wasn't in their manifesto.

 

[DC1989]

When did they vote for it in Senedd? It certainly wasn't in their manifesto.

This is from the Senedd website

 

[Dai Corner]

This is from the Senedd website

View attachment 144273

Ok, it's not dated but the presence of UKIP and Brexit Party members means it must have been before the last election. The Parties set out their current policies prior to that election and people chose who to vote for accordingly. Labour's included the 20mph default limit, the Conservatives' didn't. I stand by my statement that anyone who didn't vote against Labour has no right to complain. They have done what they said they'd do.

 

[TPO]

The Heads of the Valleys Road only benefits travel within that area and between it, Swansea, west Wales and mid or northern England or Scotland.

There will be shiny new trains throughout Wales apart from the Central Wales line.

The best way to spend £1bn of the transport budget to benefit people throughout Wales would have been a programme of road improvements and bypasses, bus infrastructure in urban areas and bus subsidies. The Minister has admitted that the latter give more 'bang per buck' than other public transport in terms of reducing pollution.

You are right about buses, as was Corbyn when he made the point that the public transport which most benefited the least well off was buses not trains. He was pilloried ( in the Guardian as well as other media) for worrying about bus users.

On that subject........the Bus running between Llandeilo and Swansea via Ammanford has just been made hourly, from the previous half hourly service. Journey takes rather longer now.

That's a key route which HOWL serves badly (4 trains a day- if they actually turn up), buses being reduced, and whilst the cutting of subsidy is no doubt part of the cause, the timing suggests the 20mph limit is also a big factor. Knowing the route the bus takes and how impacted it is by the A-road blanket restriction, I'm not surprised unfortunately.

TPO

 

[Dai Corner]

You are right about buses, as was Corbyn when he made the point that the public transport which most benefited the least well off was buses not trains. He was pilloried ( in the Guardian as well as other media) for worrying about bus users.

On that subject........the Bus running between Llandeilo and Swansea via Ammanford has just been made hourly, from the previous half hourly service. Journey takes rather longer now.

That's a key route which HOWL serves badly (4 trains a day- if they actually turn up), buses being reduced, and whilst the cutting of subsidy is no doubt part of the cause, the timing suggests the 20mph limit is also a big factor. Knowing the route the bus takes and how impacted it is by the A-road blanket restriction, I'm not surprised unfortunately.

TPO

I wonder how much better the bus service could be if they abandoned the railway and spent the money on that instead?

By the way, the 'blanket restriction' is on 'residential roads' (those which used to be 30mph and haven't been exempted). They may be A, B or unclassified. I don't know the area but if Llandeilo-Ammannford-Swansea has houses, shops etc all the way you'd think it would support a decent commercial bus service.

 

[Krokodil]

I wonder how much better the bus service could be if they abandoned the railway and spent the money on that instead?

It would probably go the same way as the post-Beeching bus services. The thing is that it's difficult to withdraw a railway service, it is however very easy to withdraw a bus route.

 

[DelW]

On that subject........the Bus running between Llandeilo and Swansea via Ammanford has just been made hourly, from the previous half hourly service. Journey takes rather longer now.

That's a key route which HOWL serves badly (4 trains a day- if they actually turn up), buses being reduced, and whilst the cutting of subsidy is no doubt part of the cause, the timing suggests the 20mph limit is also a big factor. Knowing the route the bus takes and how impacted it is by the A-road blanket restriction, I'm not surprised unfortunately.

TPO

It doesn't necessarily invalidate your point, but since the HoWL timetable was revised last December, there are actually 7 trains a day each way at Llandeilo - five through services to/from Shrewsbury, and one early morning and one late evening to/from Llandovery. Some improvements are happening, albeit slowly.

 

[Dai Corner]

It would probably go the same way as the post-Beeching bus services. The thing is that it's difficult to withdraw a railway service, it is however very easy to withdraw a bus route.

True. Though the Welsh Government are going to introduce bus-related legislation and they could include a provision to protect bus services (if they're prepared to pay for it, of course!).

 

[Krokodil]

True. Though the Welsh Government are going to introduce bus-related legislation and they could include a provision to protect bus services (if they're prepared to pay for it, of course!).

They refused funding to keep the T19 going, so I'd say that they aren't going to shut down loss-making train services in favour of loss-making bus services.

 

[Dai Corner]

They refused funding to keep the T19 going, so I'd say that they aren't going to shut down loss-making train services in favour of loss-making bus services.

That's the sort of tough decision they'd have to make it they wanted a truly integrated public transport network though. Even more so if railway infrastructure was devolved and they had to pay for it as well as the stock and operations.

 

[Krokodil]

For whoever it was going on about the road between Colwyn Bay and Llandudno, just thought that I'd let you know that Penrhyn Hill remains 30mph, and past Little Orme it's still 40.

 

[stuu]

That's a key route which HOWL serves badly (4 trains a day- if they actually turn up), buses being reduced, and whilst the cutting of subsidy is no doubt part of the cause, the timing suggests the 20mph limit is also a big factor. Knowing the route the bus takes and how impacted it is by the A-road blanket restriction, I'm not surprised unfortunately.

TPO

Assuming the Welsh government map of speed limits is correct, there are about 4 or 5 miles of 20mph limit between Swansea and Llandeilo. Which would add 4 or 5 minutes at most to the journey, and that's assuming 30mph was achievable all the way. I would guess the real world difference is pretty marginal, and blaming the speed limit for changing the service level is disingenuous. Buses get stuck at stops for longer whilst people find their bus pass or whatever

 

[WelshBluebird]

the A-road blanket restriction

Which doesn't exist.

 

[JGurney]

Bad news for anyone who chooses their holiday destination based on speed limits

Cornwall's 20mph speed limit plan will proceed, council says - BBC News

Limits will be reduced across Cornwall, despite government guidance changing.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not at all - it makes Cornwall more attractive for me.....

 

[krus_aragon]

Let's see. The length alongside the golf course would be fine for a higher speed. You could argue the same about Penrhyn Hill as any pedestrians with any sense would use the old road and there's no need to cross over at that point.

For whoever it was going on about the road between Colwyn Bay and Llandudno, just thought that I'd let you know that Penrhyn Hill remains 30mph, and past Little Orme it's still 40.

The 40mph onward into Llandudno only continues as far as the houses at Bryn-y-Bia / Craigside, then it drops down to 20, including along Bodafon fields. That feels very appropriate when the tourists are all in town (as during the warm snap on Saturday - plenty of parked cars and pedestrians), but less so on bleak wintery days when the wide road is completely empty.

On the other side of the peninsula, the road from the A55 through the flyover roundabout up to Deganwy Quay crossing is 30mph. The rest of Deganwy has dropped to 20mph, but the 40mph section onwards to Maesdu hospital remains.

On the central route of the A470, speed limits are unchanged other than the 40mph dual carriageway toward the Links Hotel has dropped to 30 (which locals had been campaigning for anyway), and then the rest of Llandudno town is all 20mph anyway.

All in all, I can follow the logic of it, but I'm not keen of the leapfrogging between 20 and 40 - a halving and doubling in speed. I'd be happer with a buffer zone of 30mph, or (in all honesty) for some of those short 40 stretches to be dragged down to 30.

 

[Krokodil]

or (in all honesty) for some of those short 40 stretches to be dragged down to 30.

Don't say it too loud, or some of the petrolheads will be acting like you were trying to eat their first born.

 

[DC1989]

Just back from Spain for the first time since pre covid. The roads seemed so calm and halfway through my trip I realised it was because of the 30kmh limit. I imagine that England will default to 20 in urban locations before the end of the decade

 

[johncrossley]

Just back from Spain for the first time since pre covid. The roads seemed so calm and halfway through my trip I realised it was because of the 30kmh limit. I imagine that England will default to 20 in urban locations before the end of the decade

Did they actually drive at 30 km/h without people tailgating?