Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[CN04NRJ]

I can imagine using a vacant bus for driver transfer might be a little frowned upon on some circles. At 5 miles per gallon, risk of getting stuck, low bridges and so on. There's also an argument that a bus is an asset prepped at great expense for fare-paying customer use, not just to have lying around for driver convenience.

It's pretty rare it ever happens though, usually a driver only takes a bus for a changeover if the bus they're relieving is required back at the garage or is defective.

 

[OmniCity999]

It's pretty rare it ever happens though, usually a driver only takes a bus for a changeover if the bus they're relieving is required back at the garage or is defective.

I'd often seen X102, X777 and others being used as shuttles before the heritage fleet moved from Longstone.

 

[scosutsut]

I'd often seen X102, X777 and others being used as shuttles before the heritage fleet moved from Longstone.

It's maybe a gig for the milk floats, assuming they stay out of service and they can't get rid of them.

Edit - for clarity I mean the rather unsuccessful electric Wright Streetairs, hence the unaffectionate milk float moniker

 

[CN04NRJ]

I'd often seen X102, X777 and others being used as shuttles before the heritage fleet moved from Longstone.

Interesting! There was a lack of vans until the new ones come that's for sure.

 

[takno]

It's maybe a gig for the milk floats, assuming they stay out of service and they can't get rid of them.

Edit - for clarity I mean the rather unsuccessful electric Wright Streetairs, hence the unaffectionate milk float moniker

They're quite nice buses if they could just find a route with no significant passengers at any point along it

 

[alexf380]

The old MacTours routes 60/61/69 would be the best fit for them, having about the same capacity as the Solos. The only problem is they don't run anymore because they didn't attract many passengers!

 

[scosutsut]

They're quite nice buses if they could just find a route with no significant passengers at any point along it

The old MacTours routes 60/61/69 would be the best fit for them, having about the same capacity as the Solos. The only problem is they don't run anymore because they didn't attract many passengers!

In a nutshell, the quandary of the Streetairs.

I think it makes them Lothian's worst purchase in a long time.

 

[takno]

In a nutshell, the quandary of the Streetairs.

I think it makes them Lothian's worst purchase in a long time.

Weren't they basically a freebie from the Scottish Government? They certainly didn't achieve their aim if so - if anything they seem to have put people off all-electric buses completely for the next 5 years.

 

[computerSaysNo]

They're quite nice buses if they could just find a route with no significant passengers at any point along it

Oh, what about the 139? Although that would involve running empty from either Musselburgh or Central at the start/end of service (I'm assuming there's not a part-route 140 to get the vehicles into place for the 139?).

 

[scosutsut]

Weren't they basically a freebie from the Scottish Government? They certainly didn't achieve their aim if so - if anything they seem to have put people off all-electric buses completely for the next 5 years.

Bus Grant 8 (current run) has these rules - not sure about previous:

Grants will be offered to successful bidders for up to 80% of the price differential between a LCV and its diesel equivalent

Source: https://www.transport.gov.scot/public-transport/buses/scottish-green-bus-fund/

I can't see when exactly the funding was granted from and on what basis I assume Bus Grant 4 or earlier: https://www.transport.gov.scot/public-transport/buses/scottish-green-bus-fund/#45456

Scottish Green Bus Fund 4 grant awards
Bus Company Bus Type Number of Buses Total Grant Offered (£)
1. Lothian Buses Ltd Single 14 £1,050,000.00
2. Stagecoach East Double 18 £1,375,015.50
TOTAL 32 £2,425,015.50
Scottish Green Bus Fund 3 grant awards
Bus Company Bus Type Number of Buses Total Grant Offered (£)
1. Lothian Buses Ltd Single 20 £1,500,000.00
2. SWestrans Single 1 £96,288.00
3. Stagecoach Bluebird Single 3 £302,373.06
TOTAL 24 £1,898,661.06
Scottish Green Bus Fund 2 grant awards
Bus Company Bus Type Number of Buses Total Grant Offered (£)
1. National Express Dundee Double 9 £457,362.00
2. Lothian Buses Ltd Single 10 £750,000.00
3. Deveron Coaches Single 2 £174,400.00
4. Henderson Travel Single 1 £87,200.00
TOTAL 22 £1,468,962

So the conclusion is they'd at least have got up to 80% of the cost difference between the price of buying the diesel equivalent to the streetair but previous scheme may have been less generous.

£1.05m over 14 is £75k per vehicle, whatever they were?

 

[OmniCity999]

Bus Grant 8 (current run) has these rules - not sure about previous:



Source: https://www.transport.gov.scot/public-transport/buses/scottish-green-bus-fund/

I can't see when exactly the funding was granted from and on what basis I assume Bus Grant 4 or earlier: https://www.transport.gov.scot/public-transport/buses/scottish-green-bus-fund/#45456



So the conclusion is they'd at least have got up to 80% of the cost difference between the price of buying the diesel equivalent to the streetair but previous scheme may have been less generous.

£1.05m over 14 is £75k per vehicle, whatever they were?

I believe, although its entirely guesswork, this will be the B5LH's that were on Skylink and now repainted into fleet and lothian country liveries.

I believe these were only part funded.

Although im sure we're due 4 Electric deckers from ADL this year.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Silly question but any chances now that the Goverment have implemented that all pubs and restaurants are to close at 10pm do you reckon Lothian will strip back some services?

 

[CN04NRJ]

Silly question but any chances now that the Goverment have implemented that all pubs and restaurants are to close at 10pm do you reckon Lothian will strip back some services?

People still use Lothian bus services after 10pm (hope this time this post is within the rules). Revellers are a minority of bus users at the moment from my experience - the railway on the other hand....

 

[Volvodart]

I believe, although its entirely guesswork, this will be the B5LH's that were on Skylink and now repainted into fleet and lothian country liveries.

I believe these were only part funded.

Although im sure we're due 4 Electric deckers from ADL this year.

Round 7 funding was for the 6 StreetAirs. It was £1,000,000. Lothian Buses said their investment, including charging equipment, was £2.7 million. I do not think a calculation is possible to say what % of additional cost was funded because there used to be a maximum grant per operator, which I think is why Lothian Buses is often a round sum.

Scottish Green Bus Fund 7 Grant Awards

Company	Total grant offered	No. Buses	Bus type
Lothian Buses	£1,000,000	6 electric buses	Volvo B5LH Chassis

 

[scotrail158713]

Silly question but any chances now that the Goverment have implemented that all pubs and restaurants are to close at 10pm do you reckon Lothian will strip back some services?

Night buses being stopped maybe? I know they’ve only just started but that seems to emphasise to me they’re more about the night time economy - which is getting stopped just now - and so they seem likely to get the chop.

 

[OmniCity999]

Round 7 funding was for the 6 StreetAirs. It was £1,000,000. Lothian Buses said their investment, including charging equipment, was £2.7 million.

Scottish Green Bus Fund 7 Grant Awards

Company	Total grant offered	No. Buses	Bus type
Lothian Buses	£1,000,000	6 electric buses	Volvo B5LH Chassis

Ah yes, cheers for that.

I had thought the ADL electric deckers we were due were to be funded in part by the government too - obviously not.

Night buses being stopped maybe? I know they’ve only just started but that seems to emphasise to me they’re more about the night time economy - which is getting stopped just now - and so they seem likely to get the chop.

and not about Hospital, Factory, Council, Bus, Tram or Airport workers? their used by a diverse group of people.

 

[scotrail158713]

and not about Hospital, Factory, Council, Bus, Tram or Airport workers? their used by a diverse group of people.

I did think that initially and I’d absolutely agree actually. I was just, I suppose speculatively, thinking that since the night buses only started a couple of weeks ago those groups of workers didn’t seem to be the main target passengers.
Unless someone knows another reason why the night buses didn’t run throughout?

 

[OmniCity999]

I did think that initially and I’d absolutely agree actually. I was just, I suppose speculatively, thinking that since the night buses only started a couple of weeks ago those groups of workers didn’t seem to be the main target passengers.
Unless someone knows another reason why the night buses didn’t run throughout?

because of cost.

people were being told not to go out and pubs etc were closed.

NightBus services run commercially and couldnt be justified at the time. Now that priorities have been realised and people are comfortable using public transport again, the NightBus network was partially brought back.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Don't think it's been posted yet but it looks like all of 201-215 have been repainted during their time off the road into FOTF livery, with crests. Not sure how many of them had green seats prior to the lockdown but all the vehicles I've seen so far have red seats.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Don't think it's been posted yet but it looks like all of 201-215 have been repainted during their time off the road into FOTF livery, with crests. Not sure how many of them had green seats prior to the lockdown but all the vehicles I've seen so far have red seats.

Only a few did have them left. 212 and 215 among others and I have seen at least one with the original green seats just the other day, don’t expect them to last much longer though as they look really worn.

 

[scosutsut]

Don't think it's been posted yet but it looks like all of 201-215 have been repainted during their time off the road into FOTF livery, with crests. Not sure how many of them had green seats prior to the lockdown but all the vehicles I've seen so far have red seats.

I think that had started before as the first few even appeared with Lothian City fleetnames before being quickly reverted to the Lothian ones with the "we pretend to like and interwork with the trams happily" circle logo.

Not sure about the retrim internally though.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I think that had started before as the first few even appeared with Lothian City fleetnames before being quickly reverted to the Lothian ones with the "we pretend to like and interwork with the trams happily" circle logo.

Not sure about the retrim internally though.

Oh yes, I should have said the remainder not in the FOTF livery as I was unsure which were in it and which weren't.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Don't think it's been posted yet but it looks like all of 201-215 have been repainted during their time off the road into FOTF livery, with crests. Not sure how many of them had green seats prior to the lockdown but all the vehicles I've seen so far have red seats.

209, 212 & 215 were the only 3 with the original interior. Believe almost all if not all were reapainted by March

 

[CN04NRJ]

209, 212 & 215 were the only 3 with the original interior. Believe almost all if not all were reapainted by March

I stand corrected.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I stand corrected.

Aye, all were out of the old livery by the tume lockdown started. 204 was the last and was at the paintshop at the start of lockdown

 

[GusB]

Could someone please provide a definition for FOTF? I would also like to remind everyone of this:

Forum Rules

General Rules It is your responsibility to ensure all your contributions to this forum are respectful, appropriate, relevant, legal and accessible. All the rules below apply to all contributions in all areas of the forum, if any content causes you concern, please alert us to it, by reporting...

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Accessible

• All contributions should be readable and understandable. You should use the forum's default font and formatting, unless appropriate to aid clarity. Additionally you should make reasonable efforts to use correct spelling, punctuation and grammar in all your contributions.
• When quoting other members' posts, please attempt to quote only the parts relevant to your response. Quoting long posts in full should be avoided.
• Please remember many members do not understand rail “jargon” (including acronyms, station codes and specialist terms). Such terms should be correctly defined the first time they are used; codes and abbreviations must not be made up.
• Please respect others' bandwidth; many members use mobile devices and/or have slow connections.

 

[OmniCity999]

Could someone please provide a definition for FOTF? I would also like to remind everyone of this:

Forum Rules

General Rules It is your responsibility to ensure all your contributions to this forum are respectful, appropriate, relevant, legal and accessible. All the rules below apply to all contributions in all areas of the forum, if any content causes you concern, please alert us to it, by reporting...

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Fleet of The Future.

There are a lot of acronyms in the Lothian world. Enthusiasts and staff in said world know them hence their use. Their all common knowledge so people may not feel the need to explain.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Could someone please provide a definition for FOTF? I would also like to remind everyone of this:

Forum Rules

General Rules It is your responsibility to ensure all your contributions to this forum are respectful, appropriate, relevant, legal and accessible. All the rules below apply to all contributions in all areas of the forum, if any content causes you concern, please alert us to it, by reporting...

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FOTF means "Fleet of the future". We use FOTF as it is easier and faster to type.
Edit: My post was posted before the above post was visible for me, so I didn't know that there was already a response.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Could someone please provide a definition for FOTF? I would also like to remind everyone of this:

Forum Rules

General Rules It is your responsibility to ensure all your contributions to this forum are respectful, appropriate, relevant, legal and accessible. All the rules below apply to all contributions in all areas of the forum, if any content causes you concern, please alert us to it, by reporting...

www.railforums.co.uk

Does this need to be explained/written in full for every occurrence? As in the old thread the acronyms for various things were referenced constantly - certainly the abbreviation of Fleet of the Future is well known to any person with an interest in Lothian. I mainly use my mobile phone to read and reply to this forum and it's a nightmare trying to format things correctly without having to give a full explanation/spelling of every commonly known acronym or abbreviation each time.

Indeed when I did give a full explanation to what an AVL was I was shut down by yourself as you, personally, knew what it was but I was trying to be helpful for any newcomers to this new thread that might not have known.

 

[GusB]

Does this need to be explained/written in full for every occurrence? As in the old thread the acronyms for various things were referenced constantly - certainly the abbreviation of Fleet of the Future is well known to any person with an interest in Lothian. I mainly use my mobile phone to read and reply to this forum and it's a nightmare trying to format things correctly without having to give a full explanation/spelling of every commonly known acronym or abbreviation each time.

Indeed when I did give a full explanation to what an AVL was I was shut down by yourself as you, personally, knew what it was but I was trying to be helpful for any newcomers to this new thread that might not have known.

While we prefer not to discuss moderation decisions in threads, several people have responded to my earlier post and therefore I feel that a general, rather than individual reply is required:

Could someone please provide a definition for FOTF? I would also like to remind everyone of this:

Forum Rules

General Rules It is your responsibility to ensure all your contributions to this forum are respectful, appropriate, relevant, legal and accessible. All the rules below apply to all contributions in all areas of the forum, if any content causes you concern, please alert us to it, by reporting...

www.railforums.co.uk

The section of forum rules that I emphasised was this:

• Please remember many members do not understand rail “jargon” (including acronyms, station codes and specialist terms). Such terms should be correctly defined the first time they are used; codes and abbreviations must not be made up.

While I appreciate that the word "rail" is used, I think it's fair to accept that those rules were written before the Buses & Coaches section of the forum became so popular. "Such terms should be correctly defined the first time they are used" is the key phrase here. In other words, if you use, for example, "FOTF" in a post, you only need to define it once.

certainly the abbreviation of Fleet of the Future is well known to any person with an interest in Lothian

That maybe the case, but anyone who is outwith the bubble of Lothian staff and enthusiasts may struggle to work out what it means. I certainly did, and I am by no means a newcomer to the forum. This is not just a local thread for local people; the forum as a whole has a global audience and we should post accordingly.

I mainly use my mobile phone to read and reply to this forum and it's a nightmare trying to format things correctly without having to give a full explanation/spelling of every commonly known acronym or abbreviation each time.

That's too bad, I'm afraid. It doesn't matter if you're on a mobile or desktop device, we expect the same standards. Far too often I see posts that say "on mobile so can't post link" or suchlike, when it is entirely possible to do so when you know how. Instructions on how to post links, copy and paste etc. are available on the internet.

All I'm asking is that people consider the wider audience when posting.