Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Siemens Trains]

So yeah the Christmas network looks better then I expected..

Some very early starts involved on some routes - I don't remember these in previous Christmas & New Year plans. Obviously entirely different circumstances this year with Hogmanay effectively cancelled. I wonder if shops will be open on New Year's Day, assuming we don't drop down a tier before then. Not much else to do if indoor gatherings are banned.
Also are all the City & Skylink services back to running from Central this year? I thought Longstone supported a fair proportion of routes over the past few years (and I suspect the resource overall is higher in the 2020-21 timetable). I imagine East Coast and Country will use their own remote depots.

 

[OmniCity999]

Some very early starts involved on some routes - I don't remember these in previous Christmas & New Year plans. Obviously entirely different circumstances this year with Hogmanay effectively cancelled. I wonder if shops will be open on New Year's Day, assuming we don't drop down a tier before then. Not much else to do if indoor gatherings are banned.
Also are all the City & Skylink services back to running from Central this year? I thought Longstone supported a fair proportion of routes over the past few years (and I suspect the resource overall is higher in the 2020-21 timetable). I imagine East Coast and Country will use their own remote depots.

Early starts can be attributed to key workers, as noted on the Lothian website and social media posts.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Early starts can be attributed to key workers, as noted on the Lothian website and social media posts.

Yes, but wouldn't these key workers need the same level of service every year?
Maybe they'd normally share a lift with colleagues, which is forbidden at present.

 

[221129]

A little bit surprised to see E400 203 on the 1 this morning, is this a regular AM Peak working or?

 

[Siemens Trains]

Airlink only started running on Christmas Day about 2013/14 I think it was, the 22 used to serve the Airport on Christmas Day prior to that.

Yes, the 100 ran on Christmas Day 2013 twice per hour from about 6am to midnight. In 2012 service 22 was extended beyond the Gyle to give an hourly service to the airport between midday and 10pm.
In 2011 I believe there were no buses or trams to Edinburgh Airport at all on 25 December.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Some very early starts involved on some routes - I don't remember these in previous Christmas & New Year plans. Obviously entirely different circumstances this year with Hogmanay effectively cancelled. I wonder if shops will be open on New Year's Day, assuming we don't drop down a tier before then. Not much else to do if indoor gatherings are banned.
Also are all the City & Skylink services back to running from Central this year? I thought Longstone supported a fair proportion of routes over the past few years (and I suspect the resource overall is higher in the 2020-21 timetable). I imagine East Coast and Country will use their own remote depots.

Everything from Central on the 25th, 26th and 1st. Some 30s finish at Elm Row on Christmas eve presumably to allow for them to run the 30 on boxing day.

30 is only going to the Fort on new years day so guess that'll be deckers.

A little bit surprised to see E400 203 on the 1 this morning, is this a regular AM Peak working or?

They seem to work the 24/1 fairly regularly lately - usually see at least one on either every day.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Before Covid, there was also talk of making all 124 journeys (except depot runs etc) X24 journeys and rerouting the X5 through Wallyford. The current X24 rush buses would have been converted into X5's. X5's hourly as is, with additional journeys for peak runs. Unfortunately, i believe this is now no longer the case.

Honestly as much as I would understand that, I feel they should of done that when they launched. and the 124 does pick up the extra pieces for the 26 in places like Portobello, so if it ain’t broke why fix it?

However i do agree full heartily that the X5 should of been via Wallyford and Prestonpans from the start, giving Prestonpans a faster and cheaper option to the city and taking the load off the 124.

There was also going to be a fully new service, but lets not get into that!

Im guessing an X13 to replace the X44 in Tranent? Or a new service within the EL region

 

[OmniCity999]

Honestly as much as I would understand that, I feel they should of done that when they launched. and the 124 does pick up the extra pieces for the 26 in places like Portobello, so if it ain’t broke why fix it?

However i do agree full heartily that the X5 should of been via Wallyford and Prestonpans from the start, giving Prestonpans a faster and cheaper option to the city and taking the load off the 124.



Im guessing an X13 to replace the X44 in Tranent? Or a new service within the EL region

The idea was to make the X24 faster. By its very nature, the X24 stopping pattern picks up at busy stops as is - running it full time would be successful in that it serves those busy stops. It's only limited stop between Musselburgh and Waterloo Place. The regular 26 would pick up the slack. The view before Covid was to make East Coast the primary operator in East Lothian, with the main company - Lothian, offering alternatives.

A totally new service was planned and additional vehicles were to be sourced, as well as an additional depot. Major frequency enhancements were planned as well as more part route runnings to cover Lothian services, the 44 and 26 for example.

Covid has put the brakes on everything for the time being.

 

[Lothianbus703]

I know this is completely unrelated to what we are talking about but I was watching a video called Buses in Edinburgh 1992 (I think 1992) and there was a 22 to currie can anybody tell me the route it did and how it turned in Currie. Thanks.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I know this is completely unrelated to what we are talking about but I was watching a video called Buses in Edinburgh 1992 (I think 1992) and there was a 22 to currie can anybody tell me the route it did and how it turned in Currie. Thanks.

Think turning in Currie was a bit like the original 61- going along Riccarton Avenue, Curriehill Road (terminating at the school playing fields), left into Lanark Road West then left again down Riccarton Mains Road to join the main route under the pylons. I seem to recall some journeys extending up to Balerno, rather like the 63 nowadays.
Going further back in time I believe there was a limited stop 73 on a similar route that went up Currievale Drive. But difficulties in turning and a campaign by residents soon saw that off.

 

[stan68]

A good source for the bus routes that no longer exist, go to http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/1_edin_t/1_edinburgh_transport.htm

 

[Auld reekie]

I know this is completely unrelated to what we are talking about but I was watching a video called Buses in Edinburgh 1992 (I think 1992) and there was a 22 to currie can anybody tell me the route it did and how it turned in Currie. Thanks.

I remember the 22 went from Sighthill to Blackhall along Calder Road via Stevenson Drive along Balgreen Road onto Georgie Road.

 

[GusB]

I seem to recall that the 22 went to Sighthill around that time. I was seeing someone who was at Heriot Watt in 1993, and the main daytime service was the 65. In the evenings (and possibly weekends - memories are a bit hazy) it was the 22A, which would turn right off Gorgie Road, go round the houses a bit, before rejoining the A71 and heading out to Riccarton. I honestly can't remember if it terminated there or went onto Currie afterwards.

 

[jb66]

No Xmas Service for Winchburgh, Kirkliston, newbridge, ratho, ratho station. No service to Edinburgh from Broxburn, Uphall Dechmont. Feel there is a gap there

 

[DunsBus]

I seem to recall that the 22 went to Sighthill around that time. I was seeing someone who was at Heriot Watt in 1993, and the main daytime service was the 65. In the evenings (and possibly weekends - memories are a bit hazy) it was the 22A, which would turn right off Gorgie Road, go round the houses a bit, before rejoining the A71 and heading out to Riccarton. I honestly can't remember if it terminated there or went onto Currie afterwards.

Correct.

As I recall, the 22/25 in 1993 ran between Newhaven and Sighthill, with the 22 extending to Currie, via Riccarton, on Saturdays in place of the linked 45/65 service which did not run on that day. (The 22/25 had previously extended to Currie on all days of the week, an extension introduced at deregulation).

At nights and on Sundays it ran as the 22A between Leith and Riccarton. Peak hour journeys served Sighthill Industrial Estate and ran as the 22B and 25B.

Pre deregulation the 22 and 25 extended, during the day, from Newhaven to Blackhall via Granton, Muirhouse and Drylaw with its southern terminus being Sighthill. The section between Muirhouse and Blackhall was cut at deregulation and 1989 brought a further curtailment, from Muirhouse to Granton Crescent, before Newhaven became the permanent northern daytime terminus in 1993.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Lothian tweeted that they have something in the works (replying to someone asking if there was going to be a Christmas Video)

https://twitter.com/on_lothianbuses/status/1334501019644997634

You can tell her we've got something in the works...

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Lothian tweeted that they have something in the works (replying to someone asking if there was going to be a Christmas Video)

https://twitter.com/on_lothianbuses/status/1334501019644997634

*gasp* a Christmas video!! How shocking and completly unnecessary, there a bus company and they shouldn’t be doing things other than drive buses!!

 

[OmniCity999]

*gasp* a Christmas video!! How shocking and completly unnecessary, there a bus company and they shouldn’t be doing things other than drive buses!!

i believe they are editing the previous ones together.

 

[stan68]

Does anyone remember when the 24 used to run all the way to Edinburgh Park via Davidson's Mains, I was wondering if they would extend the 42 via Clermiston to the Gyle, if they are proposing route extensions, curtailments and the like.

i believe they are editing the previous ones together.

I would have thought so because at this time if I was them I wouldn't be able to justify the cost, as I have seen only a couple of people on every double decker..

 

[Q_Okolo12]

Does anyone remember when the 24 used to run all the way to Edinburgh Park via Davidson's Mains, I was wondering if they would extend the 42 via Clermiston to the Gyle, if they are proposing route extensions, curtailments and the like.

I believe the 21 already serves that section of the route.

 

[stan68]

I believe the 21 already serves that section of the route.

The 42 currently operates to Craigleith, and I was mooting an extension from there directly towards Clermiston and the Gyle, as supposed to via Davidson's Mains. Good point though.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

i believe they are editing the previous ones together.

Well who knows, guess we’ll see!

The 42 currently operates to Craigleith, and I was mooting an extension from there directly towards Clermiston, as supposed to via Davidson's Mains. Good point though.

Well I recall the 42 was cut back because the 41 was already running to Davidson Mains to Craigleith, but in turn left Drylaw without a direct bus to Craigleith.

If the 42 was to do that then they should really take the 200 out of Clermiston and run it along Drum Brae North like the 32 used too, because at that point it would be overkill, a Gyle extension might not be nessescary as it was said the 21 does serve the Gyle and you can even say the 200 when you get off from Maybury and walk.

Now if your talking just to Edinburgh Park then I’d get that, but maybe just via Blackhall-Craigcrook-D’main tesco and then the old 24 route.

I’d even propose bringing the 32 back and have it work off the 21 in a unique way.

Make both services run half hour with alternative terminuses Gyle/Wester Hailes combined with a 15 minute frequency, which might be impossible but it’s all about timing, maybe a few tweaks might help.

21 RIE - Gyle/Wester Hailes (Healthy Living Centre)

Route
Greendykes - Niddrie - Portobello - Craigentinny - Lochend - Leith - Warriston - Goldenacre - Crewe Toll - Groathill - Blackhall - Clermiston - Meadowplace - Broomhall - Then Gyle or Wester Hailes

32 RIE - Gyle/Wester Hailes (Healthy Living Centre)
Greendykes - Niddrie - Portobello - Craigentinny - Seafield - Leith - Newhaven - Granton - Muirhouse - Silverknowes Neuk - Davidson Mains - Drum Brae North - Meadowplace - Broomhall - Then Gyle or Wester Hailes

Combine both the services as useful cross city connections in the North-East section, having handy crossover points like, Craigentinny, Leith, Craigcrook and Drum Brae To connect to other parts of the route.

Reroute the 21 from Davidson Mains and run direct from Crewe Toll to Craigcrook via Drylaw and Blackhall, but have that section covered by the 32 so they won’t be without a service.

Extend both services from Clovenstone to Wester Hailes Healthy Living Centre.

Re-route the old 32 by having it serve the Gyle also via the 21 route, then extended from Granton to Leith and run through to Seafield/Fillyside giving them a service back before connecting with the 21 in Craigentinny.

Is it crazy? Yes But I thought it might be a good idea and a good way to bring back an old service, and along with the 200 helps compliment the cross city services

 

[ALADOU47]

I seem to recall that the 22 went to Sighthill around that time. I was seeing someone who was at Heriot Watt in 1993, and the main daytime service was the 65. In the evenings (and possibly weekends - memories are a bit hazy) it was the 22A, which would turn right off Gorgie Road, go round the houses a bit, before rejoining the A71 and heading out to Riccarton. I honestly can't remember if it terminated there or went onto Currie afterwards.

I think it used to change to a 45 at Riccarton and it then went to Brunstane

 

[DunsBus]

I think it used to change to a 45 at Riccarton and it then went to Brunstane

Indeed. The 45 and 65 interworked at Riccarton. Buses arriving there as a 45 from Brunstane left as a 65 to Lochend and vice-versa.

 

[Lothianbus703]

From what it seems currie and Balerno used to have alot More services then it used to have with now only 3 (44,45 and 63) it looks like there used to be a 44b,44c,66 all at one time (I forgot if these all went to Balerno) I can remember the 66 with it’s Royale and when a Lothian buses would come full and everybody would have to get in the ancient Leyland Olympian.

 

[ScotRail158725]

From what it seems currie and Balerno used to have alot More services then it used to have with now only 3 (44,45 and 63) it looks like there used to be a 44b,44c,66 all at one time (I forgot if these all went to Balerno) I can remember the 66 with it’s Royale and when a Lothian buses would come full and everybody would have to get in the ancient Leyland Olympian.

45 doesn’t serve Balerno.

All the 44s, both Lothian and First, 43 & 66 all used to serve there

 

[Lothianbus703]

I forgot to say the 45 doesn't but thanks.

 

[Graham Alexand]

What areas did the old Lothian bus 43 route serve/do (the one that went to Haymarket)

 

[Siemens Trains]

From what it seems currie and Balerno used to have alot More services then it used to have with now only 3 (44,45 and 63) it looks like there used to be a 44b,44c,66 all at one time (I forgot if these all went to Balerno) I can remember the 66 with it’s Royale and when a Lothian buses would come full and everybody would have to get in the ancient Leyland Olympian.

There were indeed more route numbers and variants but they weren't very well used. Following demise of the 52, 53 and 53A in the 1980s, Eastern Scottish joined the Balerno and Penicuik services, which is where the 64,.., 68 set of numbers came from. And for a while the 69 running along Calder Road to Balerno via Wester Hailes (I think). However few passengers really wanted to travel both into the city centre and back out again - the main flow is really just along the Slateford Road corridor. Meanwhile LRT extended the 44 and 45 routes beyond Juniper Green (also the 47 going right up to Balerno, competing with the 68 via Colinton/Tollcross) and messed about with a few 22 and 25 variants via Riccarton, as mentioned by @DunsBus further up.
But to be frank it seems the only clearly commercially viable route is the 44 (ie city centre via Slateford Rd). Despite being given the opportunities there's only ever been sparse patronage from Currie & Balerno on other services.

 

[duncanp]

I am old enough to remember the Eastern Scottish service no 53A, which ran from Riccarton Campus into the city centre along the route of today's Lothian Buses no 45.

In the early 1980's (when I was a student at Heriot-Watt University) the 61 ran from St Andrew Sqaure to Riccarton Campus via Dalry Road, Gorgie Road and Calder Road.

Then in 1984 the 61 was extended to Balerno via the Johnsburn Road loop, which was handy for me as I shared a flat in Balerno. Eastern Scottish bus no 53A was withdrawn at the same time, and replaced by an extension of the 45, which had previously terminated at Juniper Green.

At that time, there was also Eastern Scottish service no. 66 which ran from St Andrew Square to Balerno via Slateford, Juniper Green and Currie.

When I was at Heriot Watt, it was annoying to see the 34 and 35 terminate at Sighthill, and having to rely on the relatively infrequent 61 (every 30 minutes during the day, and hourly at night)

It is good to see that both the 34 and 35 now terminate at Riccarton Campus, and the university is definitely better served by buses now than it was 40 years ago.