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Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

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Class 170101

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Is this line included in the Victoria - Stalybridge electrification scheme?
A quick search didn't show up any credible "official" mention, although it would obviously make sense, even without any regular electric traffic.

That could be a main route from the TPE Depot to Victoria for Electric trains. Its being wired between December 2015 and December 2016, according to Rules of the Route with possessions included throughout that year.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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The missing portal at the west end of the M6 viaduct has reappeared.
Welders were working on the one missing mast base (pile) south of Carr Mill.
Otherwise, disappointingly little new to report between Liverpool and Wigan.

correction: A full length of catenary wire has gone up over the Up line across the M6, making a continuous run from Garswood to Bryn.

Edit: I would put the missing mast count around Huyton-Roby at about 21 (on each side).
This counts a few previously unseen bases on the main line just east of Huyton Jn.
Mountains of steelwork still to go up, and still much to do at Earlestown.
 
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DJH1971

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The missing portal at the west end of the M6 viaduct has reappeared.
Welders were working on the one missing mast base (pile) south of Carr Mill.
Otherwise, disappointingly little new to report between Liverpool and Wigan.

correction: A full length of catenary wire has gone up over the Up line across the M6, making a continuous run from Garswood to Bryn.

Nice to hear.
 

LDECRexile

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The missing portal at the west end of the M6 viaduct has reappeared.
Welders were working on the one missing mast base (pile) south of Carr Mill.
Otherwise, disappointingly little new to report between Liverpool and Wigan.

correction: A full length of catenary wire has gone up over the Up line across the M6, making a continuous run from Garswood to Bryn.

Edit: I would put the missing mast count around Huyton-Roby at about 21 (on each side side).
This counts a few previously unseen bases on the main line just east of Huyton Jn.
Mountains of steelwork still to go up, and still much to do at Earlestown.

Looks like we did the same tour today (again!)

I agree all your factual observations, with a few more to sweeten the pill a little.

On the Wigan Branch a new one of the very short side-wired sections we have described before has appeared approx 1/3rd mile south of St Helens Central. Like the one you reported last week between St Helens Central and Gerards Bridge Junction it lasts for three masts on both sides of the tracks.

At Carr Mill Viaduct the Pier 1 shuttering has been removed, leaving the mega-base I photo-recorded last week curing in the open air. The shuttering has been moved to the top of Pier 4 and the reinfocing steelwork has been installed. To my lay eye passing at speed I would say it is ready for concrete.

Good news bad news at Earlestown:

the bad news is that the well-covered and concealed excavation for the middle base on Platform 1 is now revealed and shows - nothing. No base has yet been installed. Some weeks ago I photo-recorded a team doing core sampling down to 10 metres deep. I hope this doesn't bode ill.

the good news is that at least two masts have gone up, both at the western end of Platform 2. One of them has an impressive display of danglies already. Danglies also festoon portals which were bare last week.

Sankey Viaduct still has only seven of the eight teeth missing, but that is not a surprise as the stonemasons couldn't get access last week.

The best news is that there seems to have been significant progress between Edge Hill and Wavertree Technology Park, with both side wires and overhead wires in place on significant stretches, most clearly near the Stevenson Way bridge. I use the term 'clearly' advisedly, as visibility was poor ( I didn't have my trusty step-stool) and the mix of old and new metalwork is confusing. That has always been true, and equally true is the existence of wires overhead at Waterloo Branch Junction and its neighbour Bootle Branch Junction.

I have described before the puzzling arrangement of wires over the eastbound goods line to the north of the running lines. My puzzlement has changed but not lessened. The overhead wires are in place only over the eastbound of these lines, and there isn't any obvious mastwork in place to serve the westbound line. So far this corroborates my theory that this line is being electrified as effectively an eastbound loop. The rum thing is that the wire ends up neither fish nor fowl, instead of swinging back south to rejoin the main line at Waterloo Branch Junction it sort of heads towards Picko No.1 tunnel but 'misses it'. There is a new mast by the Main Line more or less opposite the entrance to Picko No 1, my theory is that this is to be used to support a wire returning to the eastbound main, but I'd really appreciate someone who knows what's what clarifying things.

Last week I added a note that Lea Green station is being painted. Someone observed that this would doubtless be in LeaF Green. I studied it closely today in various lighting conditions. The colour is not quite what one would expect on vegetation, it is glossier and less textured, more to the point it has a lustre as if it were polished. I reckon it's Flea Green.

All traffic was stopped east of Newton-le-Willows following cable theft in Manchester. We haven't had that for a while.

Photos late tonight, spreadsheet tomorrow.
 

Wavertreelad

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The best news is that there seems to have been significant progress between Edge Hill and Wavertree Technology Park, with both side wires and overhead wires in place on significant stretches, most clearly near the Stevenson Way bridge. I use the term 'clearly' advisedly, as visibility was poor ( I didn't have my trusty step-stool) and the mix of old and new metalwork is confusing. That has always been true, and equally true is the existence of wires overhead at Waterloo Branch Junction and its neighbour Bootle Branch Junction.

I have described before the puzzling arrangement of wires over the eastbound goods line to the north of the running lines. My puzzlement has changed but not lessened. The overhead wires are in place only over the eastbound of these lines, and there isn't any obvious mastwork in place to serve the westbound line. So far this corroborates my theory that this line is being electrified as effectively an eastbound loop. The rum thing is that the wire ends up neither fish nor fowl, instead of swinging back south to rejoin the main line at Waterloo Branch Junction it sort of heads towards Picko No.1 tunnel but 'misses it'. There is a new mast by the Main Line more or less opposite the entrance to Picko No 1, my theory is that this is to be used to support a wire returning to the eastbound main, but I'd really appreciate someone who knows what's what clarifying things.

Local residents near Wavertree Tech Station and other nearby stations have received notifications that work is being carried overnight from 2100hrs using pneumatic drills, generators and lighting as work is carried out laying ducting for earthing the overhead cabling.

As far as the mystery at Waterloo Branch is concerned, I was puzzled because of the mention of the term Waterloo Branch Junction then I looked at the comments below picture 1542 and the penny dropped. I'm not in the rail industry so comment purely as a layman. I haven't been past there for some time, so just to clarify in my mind am I correct in thinking that the wiring extends from along just one of the reception sidings at to just short of Picton Road Bridge?

Since the reopening of Olive Mount Tunnel I believe most trains on the Chat Moss use this route, but some still use Tuebrook Sidings with the locomotive running round the train and then running back via the Picow tunnels to the junction between Piguhue Lane and Binns Road. Once the new container terminal opens at Seaforth there is likely going to be a need to operate intermodal trains to some destinations despite the road upgrade to the Port that was confirmed by the Government today. Electrifying one of the reception sidings would provide an interim solution should it be necessary to introduce electric traction pending future electrification of the Bootle Branch. The short section beyond Bootle Branch junction up to the first Picow tunnel would provide a short headshunt to allow the electric locomotive to cross from the eastbound Chat Moss main line then set back on an eastbound train. A diesel locomotive could then shuttle trains to and from the dock network.
 

8A Rail

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Once the new container terminal opens at Seaforth there is likely going to be a need to operate intermodal trains to some destinations despite the road upgrade to the Port that was confirmed by the Government today. Electrifying one of the reception sidings would provide an interim solution should it be necessary to introduce electric traction pending future electrification of the Bootle Branch. The short section beyond Bootle Branch junction up to the first Picow tunnel would provide a short headshunt to allow the electric locomotive to cross from the eastbound Chat Moss main line then set back on an eastbound train. A diesel locomotive could then shuttle trains to and from the dock network.

I just love your optimism about Seaforth and intermodal trains - traffic is already there for trains to operate but they dont because of Ditton and Garston!! In the light of the proposed A5036 upgrade, then there will be less chance of intermodal trains! However, we covered this subject before, so leave it there then!:)
 

LDECRexile

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Local residents near Wavertree Tech Station and other nearby stations have received notifications that work is being carried overnight from 2100hrs using pneumatic drills, generators and lighting as work is carried out laying ducting for earthing the overhead cabling.

As far as the mystery at Waterloo Branch is concerned, I was puzzled because of the mention of the term Waterloo Branch Junction then I looked at the comments below picture 1542 and the penny dropped. I'm not in the rail industry so comment purely as a layman. I haven't been past there for some time, so just to clarify in my mind am I correct in thinking that the wiring extends from along just one of the reception sidings at to just short of Picton Road Bridge?

Since the reopening of Olive Mount Tunnel I believe most trains on the Chat Moss use this route, but some still use Tuebrook Sidings with the locomotive running round the train and then running back via the Picow tunnels to the junction between Piguhue Lane and Binns Road. Once the new container terminal opens at Seaforth there is likely going to be a need to operate intermodal trains to some destinations despite the road upgrade to the Port that was confirmed by the Government today. Electrifying one of the reception sidings would provide an interim solution should it be necessary to introduce electric traction pending future electrification of the Bootle Branch. The short section beyond Bootle Branch junction up to the first Picow tunnel would provide a short headshunt to allow the electric locomotive to cross from the eastbound Chat Moss main line then set back on an eastbound train. A diesel locomotive could then shuttle trains to and from the dock network.

Thank you for taking this trouble.

I've wanged a dollop of photos on from today's trip, with extensive notes on the first one. I hope thst might start the ball rolling in trying to pool understanding of what's what.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

Hope you get some sleep!
 
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PDG1949

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A quick survey this Mon. afternoon indicated that all the main steelwork appears to be in place with a few registration arms to be added and then the wires! Apologies, but the battery went flat on me - photos as soon as I can manage.
 

LDECRexile

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I drove down the M57 as per usual this morning, today being Tuesday.

A wire is up over the Chat Moss line bridge.

Anyone know where it starts and ends?

Yippee!
 

PDG1949

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A quick survey this Mon. afternoon indicated that all the main steelwork appears to be in place with a few registration arms to be added and then the wires! Apologies, but the battery went flat on me - photos as soon as I can manage.

Hi - Here are today's photos for StH Central 'metalwork'> Sorry about the 'flare' in one of them - that's because of the angle I had to take the shot and low afternoon sun at this time of year.
 

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LDECRexile

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Hi - Here are today's photos for StH Central 'metalwork'> Sorry about the 'flare' in one of them - that's because of the angle I had to take the shot and low afternoon sun at this time of year.

Thank you for these, I particularly welcome the three from Parr St bridge, I haven't seen or thought to take any from there during this project.

Edit: I have created a track diagram in an attempt to clarify my excess verbiage around what might be happening in the Stephenson Way area in Wavertree. I have added it as the most recent photo in here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/15748795398/in/set-72157648494725811/
 
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GRALISTAIR

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Thank you for these, I particularly welcome the three from Parr St bridge, I haven't seen or thought to take any from there during this project.

Edit: I have created a track diagram in an attempt to clarify my excess verbiage around what might be happening in the Stephenson Way area in Wavertree. I have added it as the most recent photo in here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/15748795398/in/set-72157648494725811/

Perfect - yes the green highlight has to take place - it is pure commonsense.
 

8A Rail

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Perfect - yes the green highlight has to take place - it is pure commonsense.
Is it? I'm not sure there is any need to wire up the section between Bootle Bch Junction and Waterloo Branch Junction (on the Bootle Branch line) in the first place as I dont see any electric trains using it as they cannot get far in either direction as there is no wires nor seem to be plans for any either. I think it will not surprise me, that there may be no connection made at Waterloo Branch Junction what so ever. But it is just a thought.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I drove down the M57 as per usual this morning, today being Tuesday.
A wire is up over the Chat Moss line bridge.
Anyone know where it starts and ends?
Yippee!

2 days and no answer...;)
But good to see the wiring is progressing.
There's quite a long stretch from near Lea Green to Collins Green (both lines) which just needs the contact wire to finish it off.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Is it? I'm not sure there is any need to wire up the section between Bootle Bch Junction and Waterloo Branch Junction (on the Bootle Branch line) in the first place as I dont see any electric trains using it as they cannot get far in either direction as there is no wires nor seem to be plans for any either. I think it will not surprise me, that there may be no connection made at Waterloo Branch Junction what so ever. But it is just a thought.

The green highlight is just a crossover - it is total common sense :|
 

GRALISTAIR

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2.Early 2015 - Newton-le-Willows to Liverpool Lime Street; Huyton to Wigan
3.December 2016 - Manchester Victoria to Preston
4.Winter 2016/17 - Preston to Blackpool

Pretty clear - but yes no exact date just "Early 2015".
 

thealexweb

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2.Early 2015 - Newton-le-Willows to Liverpool Lime Street; Huyton to Wigan
3.December 2016 - Manchester Victoria to Preston
4.Winter 2016/17 - Preston to Blackpool

Pretty clear - but yes no exact date just "Early 2015".

Is Manchester to Stalybridge (both routes) still due for completion by December 2016? I recall there was a Liverpool Lime Street to Stalybridge service up until recently so its partially relevant.
 

LDECRexile

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Is it? I'm not sure there is any need to wire up the section between Bootle Bch Junction and Waterloo Branch Junction (on the Bootle Branch line) in the first place as I dont see any electric trains using it as they cannot get far in either direction as there is no wires nor seem to be plans for any either. I think it will not surprise me, that there may be no connection made at Waterloo Branch Junction what so ever. But it is just a thought.

Indeed, this is nub of the puzzle. The pink lines are in the process of being wired, masts are up and most wires are hanging. If the green bits aren't wired I can't figure out what the point of the pink is (other than the main lines, of course.)

I can't see any evidence of electrification into Tuebrook Sidings.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Is Manchester to Stalybridge (both routes) still due for completion by December 2016? I recall there was a Liverpool Lime Street to Stalybridge service up until recently so its partially relevant.

No, Guide Bridge to Stalybridge is 2018 (same as Stalybridge to Leeds).
 

LDECRexile

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2 days and no answer...;)
But good to see the wiring is progressing.
There's quite a long stretch from near Lea Green to Collins Green (both lines) which just needs the contact wire to finish it off.

I had hoped a commuter might have commented on the M57 wire, but this will be tricky if they travel both ways in the dark.

I agree re the Green to Green stretch, though on Monday the section through SHJ itself still seemed to need a bit more than just a contact wire.
 

8A Rail

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The green highlight is just a crossover - it is total common sense :|
You missed the point - what is the point of wiring the Bootle Bch line section in the illustration, let alone the missing bit at Waterloo Bch Junction - its serves no purpose other than may be to complete the flow of electricity in connection with the main lines - I cannot imagine ever a electric loco or unit ever using it - it is a dead section. So now't to do with common sense.

Even Dave with the following comment seems to agree --
Indeed, this is nub of the puzzle. The pink lines are in the process of being wired, masts are up and most wires are hanging. If the green bits aren't wired I can't figure out what the point of the pink is (other than the main lines, of course.) I can't see any evidence of electrification into Tuebrook Sidings.
 
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Wavertreelad

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Thank you for these, I particularly welcome the three from Parr St bridge, I haven't seen or thought to take any from there during this project.

Edit: I have created a track diagram in an attempt to clarify my excess verbiage around what might be happening in the Stephenson Way area in Wavertree. I have added it as the most recent photo in here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/15748795398/in/set-72157648494725811/

The track diagram certainly explains the curious arrangement, although the reason for arrangement is even more puzzling particularly as the two points in the "loop" are virtually back to back.

Looking at the a picture I posted in Jul 2014 of the Olive Mount Junction to the Bootle Branch it is noticeable the steel work extends across all three running tracks for a short distance although I think the wiring only runs to the first or second piece of steelwork. I seem to remember somebody commenting in these forums that this was a common procedure presumably done to minimise disruption with a view to possible further extensions. Bearing in mind the Bootle Branch is on the Merseytravel plans for electrification and restoring a passenger service to the route it would seem a sensible idea to construct the wired junction at the this stage, irrespective of the issue of intermodal trains using the Branch. The requirement for this, one way or another will really only become apparent post 2016/2017 when volumes and inland movements can be properly assessed.
 

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Ash Bridge

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Don't know if this questions been asked, but what are people's opinions on the chances of Heaton Norris Junc. - Guide Bridge/ Ashton Moss being wired after completion of the Trans-Pennine routes?
 
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