Whistler40145
Established Member
I'm sure Stockport to Ashton Moss North Junction would be a good backup route if the route via Manchester Piccadilly was unavailable, but not sure of the line between Denton to Guide Bridge.
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Manchester - Liverpool Electrification
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Yes, that could be all or part of the explanation, making future electrification of the Bootle Branch a 'tag on'. If so, however, I wonder why there seems to be no masts or wire over the North-to-West line, why only West-to-North?
My brain hurts.
Until about a year ago, maybe less, Guide Bridge to Stalybridge was scheduled to be wired by the end of 2016, same as Victoria to Stalybridge. Those statements are probably left over from then.
PDG1949
Member
Speaking of diversionary routes, it might 've been useful if the SNH - SHJ track had still been intact when the line was blocked last week due to the incident at Bryn...
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
And it coincides with Piccadilly/Oxford Road enhancements also Dec 2018.
Victoria-Stalybridge coincides with Ordsall Curve in Dec 2016.
Ash Bridge
Established Member
Yes, that's why I asked, as it's always been a traditional diversion route when the WCML is down, although since the Pendolino's replaced the loco hauled Electric services possibly not that often. Re: Denton -Guide Bridge, mainly Freighliner,plus ofcourse aggregate traffic from the Peak District.
LDECRexile
Established Member
The unit is 319362 and is at Allerton, arrived early Tuesday morning, travelling north during the night, so no one could see it! As yet no Northern Rail branding / decals etc have been put on it. Unit 319363 left Allerton depot same time and went to Wolverton for similar refurbishment.
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The news item is not quite accurate: the 319/3 units going to Northern date from 1990.
It's the older 319/0 units (remaining with Thameslink for now) which date from 1988.
Ploughman
Established Member
It is a fairly common practice to wire up the Electrically dead lines into a junction.
Take a look at the Leeds and Normanton lines South of Colton Junction near York.
Usual distance is a 100 or so metres.
Take a look at the Leeds and Normanton lines South of Colton Junction near York.
Usual distance is a 100 or so metres.
LDECRexile
Established Member
Indeed, this makes sense. One of my puzzlements, however, remains that only one of the lineS, ie the West-to-North line has been wired, North-to-West hasn't and doesn't seem to have provision for being wired, notably no masts or long arms on cantilevers or portals.
My brain still hurts.
Viscount702
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I think 319 362 is now at Allerton.
I thought it was 319 380 that left Allerton for Wolverton which is now a Northern unit rather than one on loan
Also there are some pictures on the Northern Rail website I believe.
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DJH1971
Established Member
So 319380 won't be a short term hire train then?
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
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Accidental mis-routeing of an electric train will probably have been risk assessed as only likely or possible in the one direction, west to north as you describe it. Coming the other way the route from electrified to non-electrified line may be over a much lower speed junction and the driver of the EMU might be expected to be able to stop if wrong routed.
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Very interesting, thank you.
Wavertreelad
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This seems to be a very logical explanation.
Sorry, its called a typing error! No it was 319363 that went south, confirmed from "within" as I've said, it went down to be refurbished. As far as I am aware 319380 is only and remains on loan for driver training. Also 319361 is still around too.
In the meantime, here is the link on "Northern Rail" - http://www.northernrail.org/northern/electric-trains showing some images of the refurbishment of 319362.
HTH.
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Particular thanks for the link, Doug.
Viscount702
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It has been reported on the 319 Cascade thread that 380 is now a Northern unit although it was initially on loan.
The following 10 units are now reported to be Northern's
319361, 319362, 319363, 319364, 319365, 319380 (initial six) and then the following due to stand down by the end of this week:
319368, 319372, 319379, 319382
ironstone11
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Quite a bit of progress since Monday.
There are 3 wires over the M57 bridge, 2 on the north side, 1 on the south.
They stretch about a mile either way, and one on the north side reaches almost to the vee of Huyton Jn.
There are 6 big mast bases now visible in the gaps in Sankey viaduct.
There are 2xTTLs erected on P1 at Earlestown.
There are 3 wires over the M57 bridge, 2 on the north side, 1 on the south.
They stretch about a mile either way, and one on the north side reaches almost to the vee of Huyton Jn.
There are 6 big mast bases now visible in the gaps in Sankey viaduct.
There are 2xTTLs erected on P1 at Earlestown.
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GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Just had a quick visit to Huyton Station about an hour ago - see images 120 to 124 via this link of current state of play - http://picasaweb.google.com/104517932653927762904/LMElectrificationWorkMerseyside2014 (scroll down please).
In the meantime, as others have observed there is three (top) wires in place between Huyton Quarry and Pottery Lane Bridge, Whiston. Either side, no wires at all.
In the meantime, as others have observed there is three (top) wires in place between Huyton Quarry and Pottery Lane Bridge, Whiston. Either side, no wires at all.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
To add to what I wrote above, the vanishing mast on Roby's island platform has reappeared.
All the stonework from the gaps in Sankey Viaduct is laid out, appropriately numbered, on the lineside south of Earlestown loop.
The mast bases on the viaduct are big concrete things, complete with bolts.
All 4 on the south side are done, plus the middle 2 on the north side.
The north/east one is without a base, and the north/west one doesn't have a gap so it's not obvious what is happening there from train level.
Another job which seems to be finished is the switchgear at Wavertree - it looks connected.
Still lots of orange suits at the similar Huyton Quarry site.
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Well, I thought trains were well loaded today, now I know why, they were full of us lot.
I went from Lime St to Man Vic and back, with stops at Earlestown and Roby.
I agree with everything noted by LNW_GW_Joint and Doug of 8A_Rail except Doug's contention that the new wires extend just from Huyton Quarry to Pottery Lane with 'Either side, no wires at all'. Unless I got it wrong the position is better than this. Like LNW_GW, I reckon there is a section of single wire on the north side from right in the 'Vee' of Huyton Junction to immediately west of Huyton Quarry and, even better, also on the north side, a single wire (two, in places) extends all the way from just east of Huyton Quarry all the way through Whiston Station to join up with the Whiston-Rainhill wiring which has been there for a while.
The end result is that apart from a few hundred yards at Huyton Quarry itself there is at least one wire on at least one side of the tracks all the way from Huyton Junction to the Skew Bridge at Rainhill.
In addition to the other things recorded by my fellow explorers I reckon a new portal has been erected between Roby Junction and Bridge Road bridge, Roby and I think another between Sankey Viaduct and Junction Lane bridge Earlestown. One of the TTCs erected at Earlestown station last weekend has sprouted droppers. This conforms to a general trend that ironwork gets visibly 'busier' as time passes.
Progress in Manchester is all the more striking for not having been for a while. I know nothing of wiring being connected up, but if wires up were the sole criteria it would now be possible to drive an electric train from Eccles to Salford Central. There wouldn't be any means of alighting, but I'm sure you get the point. Three wires are now attached to the masts immediately west of Manchester Victoria. I suspect someone reported this recently, if so, apologies.
The attachments to the ornate metalwork between mid Platforms 3 and 4 reported the other day are plain to see. They don't look like anything else I've seen on Phase 2, but there's nothing else like that metalwork on Phase 2. Cleverly, the designers have addressed the problem of strength by frequency. By this I mean the attachments occur every few feet, rather than every 40 yards or so, spreading the load. This should become clearer when I upload my photos.
There has been some digging activity on the bases towards the eastern ends of the platforms, but the work has been comprehensively sheeted over. The masts off the eastern ends of the platforms remain starkly bare.
Things are becoming clearer at Wavertree. In terms of the main line there is at least one overhead (as opposed to side) wire above the westbound track throughout the complex Edge Hill to Wavertree Technology Park stretch. In fact there appears to be a full set of wires for almost all this section, with just a short (1/3rd mile-ish) section without contact wire opposite Tuebrook Sidings. Above the eastbound track there is more missing wire, but only for a similar stretch. Old and new things seem to be joined up.
On the specific question of the set of wires which extends northeast off the main line over the West-to-North line only, I've decided to back swt-passenger's horse, ie that this is a precautionary move in case an electric train is accidentally mis-routed left at Bootle Branch Junction. I've plumped for this because on passing today I could see no anchor point, such as an attachment to the northern retaining wall or a mast to the north of the tracks, to keep a wire running diagonally NW to SE in position. Put another way, the green highlighted stretch on my recent diagram has nowt to hang on to at top left.
Finally, time for a bit of humble pie. On Monday I expressed concern about the 'missing' middle base on Earlestown Platform 1. Imagine my red face and delight to get out of a train this morning and see a mast standing there as proud as punch. On Monday the base was covered with rubble, honest Guv.
Altogether, very heartening. What a difference a few days can make.
Photos later this evening, spreadsheet over the weekend.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You really are a class act with a camera. Thank you for sharing.
I went from Lime St to Man Vic and back, with stops at Earlestown and Roby.
I agree with everything noted by LNW_GW_Joint and Doug of 8A_Rail except Doug's contention that the new wires extend just from Huyton Quarry to Pottery Lane with 'Either side, no wires at all'. Unless I got it wrong the position is better than this. Like LNW_GW, I reckon there is a section of single wire on the north side from right in the 'Vee' of Huyton Junction to immediately west of Huyton Quarry and, even better, also on the north side, a single wire (two, in places) extends all the way from just east of Huyton Quarry all the way through Whiston Station to join up with the Whiston-Rainhill wiring which has been there for a while.
The end result is that apart from a few hundred yards at Huyton Quarry itself there is at least one wire on at least one side of the tracks all the way from Huyton Junction to the Skew Bridge at Rainhill.
In addition to the other things recorded by my fellow explorers I reckon a new portal has been erected between Roby Junction and Bridge Road bridge, Roby and I think another between Sankey Viaduct and Junction Lane bridge Earlestown. One of the TTCs erected at Earlestown station last weekend has sprouted droppers. This conforms to a general trend that ironwork gets visibly 'busier' as time passes.
Progress in Manchester is all the more striking for not having been for a while. I know nothing of wiring being connected up, but if wires up were the sole criteria it would now be possible to drive an electric train from Eccles to Salford Central. There wouldn't be any means of alighting, but I'm sure you get the point. Three wires are now attached to the masts immediately west of Manchester Victoria. I suspect someone reported this recently, if so, apologies.
The attachments to the ornate metalwork between mid Platforms 3 and 4 reported the other day are plain to see. They don't look like anything else I've seen on Phase 2, but there's nothing else like that metalwork on Phase 2. Cleverly, the designers have addressed the problem of strength by frequency. By this I mean the attachments occur every few feet, rather than every 40 yards or so, spreading the load. This should become clearer when I upload my photos.
There has been some digging activity on the bases towards the eastern ends of the platforms, but the work has been comprehensively sheeted over. The masts off the eastern ends of the platforms remain starkly bare.
Things are becoming clearer at Wavertree. In terms of the main line there is at least one overhead (as opposed to side) wire above the westbound track throughout the complex Edge Hill to Wavertree Technology Park stretch. In fact there appears to be a full set of wires for almost all this section, with just a short (1/3rd mile-ish) section without contact wire opposite Tuebrook Sidings. Above the eastbound track there is more missing wire, but only for a similar stretch. Old and new things seem to be joined up.
On the specific question of the set of wires which extends northeast off the main line over the West-to-North line only, I've decided to back swt-passenger's horse, ie that this is a precautionary move in case an electric train is accidentally mis-routed left at Bootle Branch Junction. I've plumped for this because on passing today I could see no anchor point, such as an attachment to the northern retaining wall or a mast to the north of the tracks, to keep a wire running diagonally NW to SE in position. Put another way, the green highlighted stretch on my recent diagram has nowt to hang on to at top left.
Finally, time for a bit of humble pie. On Monday I expressed concern about the 'missing' middle base on Earlestown Platform 1. Imagine my red face and delight to get out of a train this morning and see a mast standing there as proud as punch. On Monday the base was covered with rubble, honest Guv.
Altogether, very heartening. What a difference a few days can make.
Photos later this evening, spreadsheet over the weekend.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You really are a class act with a camera. Thank you for sharing.
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I reckon you could work a train up to alongside Manchester Exchange, if it still existed! There are certainly more wires in that area.
You probably noticed that the Perspex roof is up over the southern section of the new structure at Victoria, making the concourse a bit drier than it was.
You can also now make out all 4 platform faces of the new tram stop.
There were big open holes at the east end of Victoria through platforms, getting ready for masts I expect.
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Indeed, re Manchester Exchange, if anyone thought it was a right hole, it is now!
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Ending up on the ATW service into Manchester from Earlestown today, I caught the shuttle bus from Oxford Road to Victoria.
As we passed the basement of the old Exchange station, it was clear a lot of construction work was going on to the structure there.
I'm not at all clear what that is about.
The construction work continues alongside the railway viaduct up the approach road to Victoria.
Greybeard33
Established Member
The construction work is for the 101 Embankment office block development, on the site of the old Exchange station. See http://www.askdevelopments.com/projects/details/10792
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
So, more skyscrapers then.
If it removes some of the eyesores you see from the train it will be something.
The scenery south of Oxford Road station has been similarly altered.
It has taken away a lot of light from the platforms!
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