Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[LDECRexile]

Thank you for your kind remarks Gareth and Graham.

I'm delighted that Peter Conroy has unearthed some more shots from 1982.

I have added one of them (so far) as a 'Then' shot matching the 'Now' Photo 2300m.

I have added both to Peter's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649772527390/

and added the 'Then' shot to the combined album as Photo 0290m, here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

Must dash, I'm off to Man Vic to see what's what.

 

[AM9]

The horizontal gantry member over the slow lines (platform 3/4) at the east end of Man Vic was put in position last night (Sat 24th-Sun 25th).

Interesting curvature on Paul's picture 2892h. I assume that it is lens distortion, but it seems that it allows the mast to sit squarely on the platform ramp yet be vertical at wire height.

 

[nw-sparks]

And it is clearly becoming an embarrassment for Network Rail now, with rumours now going about that it won't be ready for May. Looks like they may have to rewrite the May timetable then. Now

Actually, the early draft of the May timetable currently in the system is pretty much the same as the current one, so far any re-write for electrification is being held back.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I went to St Helens Central today and struck lucky, wires were being put aloft.

Very good set of pics.
Somehow I expected to see a "wiring train", but the RRV's look very effective.
Pity the good folk of St Helens weren't there to see it all happen in their station in daylight.

 

[steverailer]

Looks to me that Network Rail couldn't organise a "P*ss up in a Brewery", regarding completing the electrification without delay!

Wonder if another fine from the rail regulator is looming for NR?

NWR won't be that bothered, they'll just pass the fine onto the contractor, Balfour Beatty. Now they are the ones who couldn't run the proverbial, not learnt a single thing from the phase 1 mess

What a fascinating film, thanks for sharing.
I hope the RSPB weren't watching (or the HSE).
It does show you can replace OHLE on one line while traffic hurtles along on the others!
At that date (1967) most of the equipment would have been brand new.
I guess that at Rugby was only replaced in the last few years.
I like the idea of the results of pantograph experiments being freely available to other railways...

Not actually watched the link, but you could not do the replacement that way now, too much H&S, but also I wouldn't like to try it, its bad enough doing it with a buffer line between you and the open lines.

Thank you Tom. For landlubbers like me, what is an SSA?

Kind regards

Dave

A self supporting anchor. Doesn't need a tie bar pulling in the oppersite direction to the wires

 

[deltic08]

I couldn't afford to miss this, so "Henry" is added to the great lexicon, meaning not only Hooray Henry and not only Henry the Green Engine but also a pair of complex portals marking the ends of electrified sections of track. I have used it in today's photos.

I went to St Helens Central today and struck lucky, wires were being put aloft.

Family commitments took me away at 13:00 so Paul Gaskell took over and was able to shoot the second wire actually being strung up, a first for the photo album, as it normally happens in the dead of night.

I have added eleven of Paul's photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/

and woven them into the combined album with a further dollop of my own here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

Thank you Paul.

It was in reply to you comment "any colour as long as it is black" regarding your progressometer. That was Henry Fords philosophy too.

 

[martynbristow]

I'm confused about why it's taking so long. Why can't you deploy more manpower. Surely 2 people for 10 days costs the same as 10 people for 2 days.
When are we actually looking at for competition now as I'm sure there will be teething problems

 

[DJH1971]

I'm confused about why it's taking so long. Why can't you deploy more manpower. Surely 2 people for 10 days costs the same as 10 people for 2 days.
When are we actually looking at for competition now as I'm sure there will be teething problems

My sentiments exactly.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm confused about why it's taking so long. Why can't you deploy more manpower. Surely 2 people for 10 days costs the same as 10 people for 2 days...

What if there are no other suitable people adequately trained though?

The huge gap between successive electrification projects would suggest that experienced people are in short supply.

 

[WatcherZero]

I'm confused about why it's taking so long. Why can't you deploy more manpower. Surely 2 people for 10 days costs the same as 10 people for 2 days.
When are we actually looking at for competition now as I'm sure there will be teething problems

Not necessarily, some tasks are more efficient with more people, some their just third wheel. If you hire five people for two days you need five sets of tools, if you hire 2 for 10 days you only need two sets of tools.

 

[steverailer]

I'm confused about why it's taking so long. Why can't you deploy more manpower. Surely 2 people for 10 days costs the same as 10 people for 2 days.
When are we actually looking at for competition now as I'm sure there will be teething problems

Supply and demand really. Skilled linesmen are hard to come by at the minute and with alot of other jobs starting up the men and machines have already been promised elsewhere. After all this should have been winding down by now, so hire companies are not going to keep guys and machines on a job thats going to finish in a couple of months when they are already booked onto jobs that have at least a year to run.

Also, as the job is nearing the end, store supplies are low. A mate who is on there told me that they go out and register a wire run, any missing sps is requested from the stores and arrives the following week instead of the next night.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I can understand the resource issue when running late.
However, this BB project is not half-way through yet, so you would have thought the resources would be locked down for the duration.
I know BB have other NR projects (including significant bits of Crossrail, and the Reading flyover) so NR should have plenty of leverage.
There are several other electrification contractors competing for the business.

 

[steverailer]

I can understand the resource issue when running late.
However, this BB project is not half-way through yet, so you would have thought the resources would be locked down for the duration.
I know BB have other NR projects (including significant bits of Crossrail, and the Reading flyover) so NR should have plenty of leverage.
There are several other electrification contractors competing for the business.

Unfortunatley I don't understand the material issue, after all these parts are not installed so should be in stock.

As for the project not being half way through, you are correct, but this phase is nearing completion, and afaik no plant or men has been booked for the next phase. BB do run the project, but are only a very small part of the actual on the ground team, that is made up from a mix of Pod track, Bourne Rail, Keltbray, OCR, SRS, Readypower, Quattro ect ect. These firms aren't going to have their men and machines stood idle when its the busiest time in rail construction for an age. The firm I work for are pretty much booked up for the next 12 months, and are ordering new machines and taking on more staff to cope with the demand.

NWR do have clout, and have flexed a bit of muscle, but you have to look at it long term, pinching staff an machines off other jobs jepodises those jobs being completed late meaning fines. This job is already late and will, undoubtably, get a fine but and extra month or so won't make that much difference to the size of it. Pinch resourses and you could easily make 2/3 other jobs late meaning the overall fine bill will be much larger than if you just let this one finish in due course. Hope that makes sense, I know what I mean but hard to put into writing.

 

[WatcherZero]

You bulk buy what you think you will need at the start and get periodic restockings, as a project nears the end the orders you place become smaller, further apart and they start worrying about over ordering.

Its alright at the start when you estimate you will need 1879 of X so you order a batch of 2000 ensuring a good price and a few spares, near the end your in a situation where you might need 30 Y, except they come in batches of 50 or 100. Do you order 50 and hope that's enough though you may end up having to order another 50 the next week, or do you wait off a little in case another request comes in so you can order 100 for a cheaper price?

 

[steverailer]

You bulk buy what you think you will need at the start and get periodic restockings, as a project nears the end the orders you place become smaller, further apart and they start worrying about over ordering.

Its alright at the start when you estimate you will need 1879 of X so you order a batch of 2000 ensuring a good price and a few spares, near the end your in a situation where you might need 30 Y, except they come in batches of 50 or 100. Do you order 50 and hope that's enough though you may end up having to order another 50 the next week, or do you wait off a little in case another request comes in so you can order 100 for a cheaper price?

Sorry, but as LNW-GW Joint says, they are not half way through yet. The same stuff is going up in the next phases as well, just carry it over. Or is that just to simplistic?

We're not talking nuts and bolts here either, its cantelevers, insulators ect. Estimatings doesn't happen on this scale, everything is supposed to be planned and known. This is exactly what caused some of the delay on phase 1, lack of material. This causes the job to take twice as long to complete, as you have to go back the following week to install the missing items, and some of these mean the wire run cannot be finished registered and then tensioned, causing more delays

 

[DJH1971]

There appears to be some return wiring in place now just before Huyton station.

 

[transmanche]

I'm confused about why it's taking so long. Why can't you deploy more manpower. Surely 2 people for 10 days costs the same as 10 people for 2 days.

It's not always that simple. As the old saying goes; 9 women can't have a baby in 1 month....

 

[LDECRexile]

It was in reply to you comment "any colour as long as it is black" regarding your progressometer. That was Henry Fords philosophy too.

Ah, "Yes Henry", I geddit now. I misinterpreted your reply as "Yes, Henry" in answer to my question. Please note the italics in the word "afford" in my original answer. I should be more careful with punctuation. I've seen a lot of Henries today , the term has rather grown on me. In particular I wonder where the eighth one is.

Back to business:

I've been on a railtour today, Lime St-Wigan NW-Huyton-Man Vic-Huyton-Lime St.

Headlines:

1. First wire up at Huyton Junction: an isolated single wire stretching from two masts east of the station seven masts east.
2. Wiring teams continued yesterday's progress at St Helens Central: vertical pairs of wires now up over both tracks from St Helens Chamber through the station to Standish St bridge.
3. Insulators inserted in "Graham's Live Wires" off the western end of Man Vic Platform 3.
4. Visible progress at Springs Branch Jct: fewer armless masts and fewer mastless bases. (I think)

Others

5. Wavertreelad's temporary hanger off old portal at Waterloo Branch Jct still there
6. Roby to Huyton looks to be pretty well fully danglied.
7. Couldn't see the former mastless base on south side of tracks at Huyton Jct. Mast plonked on or have I missed it (twice)?
8. Mastless base pair at the Burges, St Helens still mastless
9. Carr Mill Viaduct masts still unbedanglied.
10. Several safe walking routes being laid
11. Orangemen in lots of places
12. St Helens Jct still has some power wires bunched together
13. Rainhill 3 of 4 headspans still using temporary fixings
14. Sankey Viaduct visible reinstating progress by stonemasons, notably on south side of Pier 10.
15. Bold Tip pallisade fencing being made permanent round the masts which stand just outside the fence's original line.
16. Bold Tip felled trees being cleared.

Photos later.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

15. Bold Tip pallisade fencing being made permanent round the masts which stand just outside the fence;'s original line.

Isn't it mad, a bespoke 3-panel fence constructed round each mast...

 

[Brian1947]

We're not talking nuts and bolts here either, its cantelevers, insulators ect. Estimatings doesn't happen on this scale, everything is supposed to be planned and known. This is exactly what caused some of the delay on phase 1, lack of material. This causes the job to take twice as long to complete, as you have to go back the following week to install the missing items, and some of these mean the wire run cannot be finished registered and then tensioned, causing more delays

The contractors are greatly in need of good inventory managers and systems, and these are not too difficult to find.
It is a good job there are not supplying large manufacturing sites, e.g. Vauxhall or Land Rover, just these two as they are in close proximity and who demand Just In Time delivery of components, with excuses not permitted.
Surely they should know well in advance that you are going to be short of component(s), and re-plan accordingly rather than await a kick up … …. from NR.

 

[Billyblue]

Ah, "Yes Henry", I geddit now. I misinterpreted your reply as "Yes, Henry" in answer to my question. Please note the italics in the word "afford" in my original answer. I should be more careful with punctuation. I've seen a lot of Henries today , the term has rather grown on me. In particular I wonder where the eighth one is.

Back to business:

I've been on a railtour today, Lime St-Wigan NW-Huyton-Man Vic-Huyton-Lime St.

Headlines:

1. First wire up at Huyton Junction: an isolated single wire stretching from two masts east of the station seven masts east.
2. Wiring teams continued yesterday's progress at St Helens Central: vertical pairs of wires now up over both tracks from St Helens Chamber through the station to Standish St bridge.
3. Insulators inserted in "Graham's Live Wires" off the western end of Man Vic Platform 3.
4. Visible progress at Springs Branch Jct: fewer armless masts and fewer mastless bases. (I think)

Others

5. Wavertreelad's temporary hanger off old portal at Waterloo Branch Jct still there
6. Roby to Huyton looks to be pretty well fully danglied.
7. Couldn't see the former mastless base on south side of tracks at Huyton Jct. Mast plonked on or have I missed it (twice)?
8. Mastless base pair at the Burges, St Helens still mastless
9. Carr Mill Viaduct masts still unbedanglied.
10. Several safe walking routes being laid
11. Orangemen in lots of places
12. St Helens Jct still has some power wires bunched together
13. Rainhill 3 of 4 headspans still using temporary fixings
14. Sankey Viaduct visible reinstating progress by stonemasons, notably on south side of Pier 10.
15. Bold Tip pallisade fencing being made permanent round the masts which stand just outside the fence's original line.
16. Bold Tip felled trees being cleared.

Photos later.

1) at the moment this wire looks very temporary. At the station end it's secured by a piece of rope and some tape. Nevertheless, at least it's a start on that stretch.

 

[martynbristow]

It's not always that simple. As the old saying goes; 9 women can't have a baby in 1 month....

Well yes a very simplified point and the timing was arbitrary.
However 1 woman can have 10 babies in 10 years
Or 10 woman can have 10 babies in 1 year.
Making sweeping assumptions of course and I feel sorry for that first woman :/

Its just this electrification has been ongoing for a long time and it seems very slow progress. When ever I head across Chat Moss I've seen the progress and its always been painfully slow getting bases in and started. I am aware of the complexities of certain areas but it seems the critical path hasn't been optimised and tasks pushed back.

Its similar to viewing Network Rails progress on the Merseyrail underground, with very little actually happening.

As this is the 2nd pushback they've needed so far isn't it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Its similar to viewing Network Rails progress on the Merseyrail underground, with very little actually happening.

The wall cladding at Hamilton Square is going back on, hiding the nice brickwork for another 40-odd years...
(sorry I know off topic, couldn't resist!).

 

[LDECRexile]

1) at the moment this wire looks very temporary. At the station end it's secured by a piece of rope and some tape. Nevertheless, at least it's a start on that stretch.

They commonly start like that, tied on with baler twine, so to speak. Please see yesterdays's photos, 2906 series, of Orangemen making such a temporary attachment permanent.

I wouldn't read anything bad into it. They are usually working under severe time constraints overnight, so getting it up, safe and out of the way of trains is No.1, with permanent fixings to follow.

Dave

PS: Error in my earlier summary, Sankey Viaduct stonework is proceeding apace on both N and S sides of Pier 10

 

[martynbristow]

The wall cladding at Hamilton Square is going back on, hiding the nice brickwork for another 40-odd years...
(sorry I know off topic, couldn't resist!).

Well yes I noticed that this morning only taken them a few months :/

 

[CdBrux]

Also, as the job is nearing the end, store supplies are low. A mate who is on there told me that they go out and register a wire run, any missing sps is requested from the stores and arrives the following week instead of the next night.

I don't work in the rail industry, but I do work in manufacturing production planning and to arrive at such a situation seems pretty poor to me.

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm delighted that Paul Gaskell kindly agreed to photograph overnight developments in St Helens while I went gadding about elsewhere.

I have added five of Paul's photos to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/

and added them and a dollop of my own to the Combined Volume (does that stir any memories?!) here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

Thank you Paul.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

--- to the Combined Volume (does that stir any memories?!) Thank you Paul.

Oh yes -the essential combined Volume from Ian Allen until Platform 5 introduced a 100% superior version and just completely took the market and deservedly so IMHO.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
BTW Dave - great shots of Man Vic - loved the time you and I spent there. Great memories.

 

[LDECRexile]

Great memories indeed.

On that theme I've snatched the chance to process another of the batch Peter Conroy kindly sent me over the weekend - a smashing shot of Olive Mount cutting in 1982.

I have added it and a (nearly) matching 'Now' shot to Peter's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649772527390/

and added it near the end of the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

Thank you Peter.

 

[DJH1971]

Plenty of action this morning between Huyton to Roby, with plenty of cherry pickers on the line west of Roby.