Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[Class377/5]

Still heard nothing yet from NR regarding a statement.

Doubtful they're would be at this point as it's still filtering through unofficial channels. MDs for both companies knew by the weekend.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Still heard nothing yet from NR regarding a statement.

Network Rail doesn't have to announce anything to the public. Only the Northern TOC needs to know the detail at the moment.
All CP5 projects are monitored by ORR (on behalf of DfT), and a milestone update is published every quarter - next one is due at the end of September.

In terms of completion, electric running depends on:
- new wires connected to the old at Wavertree Jn, Earlestown, Springs Branch and Ordsall Lane
- the new layout Roby-Huyton being wired
- at least one of Huyton-Wigan or Huyton-Earlestown being finished
- power supplies commissioned
- not sure if the new signalling through St Helens Central is key or not

Huyton-Earlestown has the heritage sections to deal with (Rainhill and Earlestown stations and Sankey Viaduct), and these seem to be delayed because of late planning permission.

From what I can see, there are potential problems with all the above.
If they can sort out Wavertree and Huyton, it seems to me the Wigan branch would be the easier route to finish - about 5 miles is wired already.
Also, wiring Ordsall Lane-Victoria seems fairly straightforward with virtually all the steelwork now up.
Not that that would offer any services other than TPE Scottish diverts, but they could claim that at least some of Phase 2 was ready on the due date.

 

[LDECRexile]

I did a Lime St-Wigan-Roby-Earlestown-Lime St tour today, as follows.

Headlines:

1. Long new section of OHL East of Rainhill
2. Long new section of Return Wires North of Eccleston Park
3. Lots of new masts, bases and scrapes East of Sankey Viaduct
4. New masts in Roby Area
5. Signalling looks more advanced North of St Helens

1. OHL in place above both tracks from Rainhill 'box eastwards to the Lea Green Road worksite. From there the Return Wires continue to just short of Lea Green station as before.
2. Return wires both sides of the tracks from about 300 yds North of Eccleston Park Station through the "canyon". On the West side of the tracks this continues through Thatto Heath Station to the Pilkington's junction South of St Helens Central. On the East side of the tracks there is a break in the wire across Thatto Heath Station, whereafter it resumes and finishes with the other side at Pilk's Junction.
3. 3.1 One new mast South of the tracks between Sankey Viaduct and Junction Lane Earlestown. 3.2 The final two bases on the South side between Junction Lane Bridge and the station platforms have at least had foundations ("scrapes") excavated, I couldn't tell if bases are in there curing. 3.3 The base for the TTC ("gallows") which will arc over the E-W main line at the western end of Platform 2 is in place. 3.4 At least scrapes have been dug for all three TTC bases on Platform 1 at Earlestown, there may be bases curing under their covers it was impossible to tell. 3.5 A pair of masts have been erected to the East of Platforms 1&2 in and among the older masts, as discussed before in this context. 3.6 At least seven masts have been erected alongside the W-S bi-directional curve, I couldn't tell if there are any more out of sight towards Warrington.
4. Two masts have been erected immediately East of Roby Station, one on the North side and one on the South side. Another has been erected in the "Vee" between tracks near the new Roby Junction.
5. There were very few, if any signalling Orangemen on show North of St Helens Central. All new signals (lots of them, significantly shortening sections) were either bagged or lying down, implying they aren't far off ready for commissioning. One near Springs Branch as up and bagless, but I was facing the wrong way to tell if it was lit.

Others:

No wires on the Bamfurlong Branch
The long-mastless base to the North of Lea Green Station now has both mast and arm.
On Sankey Viaduct someone has chalked things like "US 3" and "US 14" at intervals along the inside of the northern parapet. Anyone any ideas?

I've added 20 photos here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...rification20134?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Great update and photos thanks.

 

[DJH1971]

Huyton-Earlestown has the heritage sections to deal with (Rainhill and Earlestown stations and Sankey Viaduct), and these seem to be delayed because of late planning permission.

And In my personal opinion, I feel that this the main culprit if not one of the main ones.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've added 20 photos here: https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...rification20134?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE

As I passed the Roby access point today, they were unloading some metal piles for more mast bases.
There was also a cluster of a dozen or more lying in the vee at Huyton Jn.
Looks like these will be going in the "gaps" in the bases on this stretch.
The tie in with the old masts/wiring is looking complex at all 3 locations.
I counted 12 bases on the north side at Wavertree, intermingled with the old ones, just 2 having steelwork.
There are still missing masts between Gerards Bridge and Carr Mill on the Wigan line.

 

[DJH1971]

As I passed the Roby access point today, they were unloading some metal piles for more mast bases.
There was also a cluster of a dozen or more lying in the vee at Huyton Jn.
Looks like these will be going in the "gaps" in the bases on this stretch.
The tie in with the old masts/wiring is looking complex at all 3 locations.
I counted 12 bases on the north side at Wavertree, intermingled with the old ones, just 2 having steelwork.
There are still missing masts between Gerards Bridge and Carr Mill on the Wigan line.

On Saturday, coming back from Manchester I noticed some OHLE steelwork lying trackside to the west of Earlestown waiting to be put up.

 

[Class 170101]

It's in the published NR docs that both curves at Hambleton will be included in the Leeds-Selby electrification.

We know they will be what I am saying is that are there any run off wires to these lines otherwise the ECML may be affected whilst the wiring is carried out at Hambleton Jns.

It may be of interest that Haughley Junction does not have run off wiring towards Bury St Edmunds only the mainline wiring towards Norwich.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

We know they will be what I am saying is that are there any run off wires to these lines otherwise the ECML may be affected whilst the wiring is carried out at Hambleton Jns.
It may be of interest that Haughley Junction does not have run off wiring towards Bury St Edmunds only the mainline wiring towards Norwich.

Nor does Springs Branch Jn towards Liverpool (just being put in now).
Nor Euxton Jn towards Bolton, and probably others on the 1974 WCML scheme.
No doubt part of the paring back of costs to get the thing approved.
On the Midland route out of Birmingham they didn't even wire the centre (fast) lines between Kings Norton and Barnt Green, only the outer slows.
I would be surprised if the fasts are wired in the current Bromsgrove/Redditch extension scheme.

 

[The Planner]

The fasts weren't done between Kings Norton and Cofton/Barnt Green because it was done on the cheap and they aren't getting done as part of Bromsgrove either.

 

[8A Rail]

We know they will be what I am saying is that are there any run off wires to these lines otherwise the ECML may be affected whilst the wiring is carried out at Hambleton Jns.
It may be of interest that Haughley Junction does not have run off wiring towards Bury St Edmunds only the mainline wiring towards Norwich.

The fasts weren't done between Kings Norton and Cofton/Barnt Green because it was done on the cheap and they aren't getting done as part of Bromsgrove either.

Come on Gentlemen, your posts are not applicable to the "Manchester - Liverpool Electricification" thread - is it too much to ask for to post on the relevant threads or start a new one please?

 

[LDECRexile]

As I passed the Roby access point today, they were unloading some metal piles for more mast bases.
There was also a cluster of a dozen or more lying in the vee at Huyton Jn.
Looks like these will be going in the "gaps" in the bases on this stretch.
The tie in with the old masts/wiring is looking complex at all 3 locations.
I counted 12 bases on the north side at Wavertree, intermingled with the old ones, just 2 having steelwork.
There are still missing masts between Gerards Bridge and Carr Mill on the Wigan line.

Agree with all, except that for "3 locations" read "5 locations", ie

Springs Branch Junction
Wavertree
Earlestown (which is two, really, W-E and W-S, making six!)
and
Hunts Cross exit from Allerton Depot
Bamfurlong Sidings Jct

There are also 4 missing masts between Garswood and Bryn.

 

[DJH1971]

Agree with all, except that for "3 locations" read "5 locations", ie

Springs Branch Junction
Wavertree
Earlestown (which is two, really, W-E and W-S, making six!)
and
Hunts Cross exit from Allerton Depot
Bamfurlong Sidings Jct

There are also 4 missing masts between Garswood and Bryn.

Least it's still positive work in progress.

 

[LDECRexile]

If they can sort out Wavertree and Huyton, it seems to me the Wigan branch would be the easier route to finish - about 5 miles is wired already.

I agree with this, the only obstacles appear to be Carr Mill Viaduct, M6 and M57 bridges (plus the ones you mention at Wavertree and Springs Branch)

Has anyone heard from any authoritative source that the project is now going to run over?

 

[DJH1971]

I agree with this, the only obstacles appear to be Carr Mill Viaduct, M6 and M57 bridges (plus the ones you mention at Wavertree and Springs Branch)

Has anyone heard from any authoritative source that the project is now going to run over?

Having said that, I do think that opening between Wavetree-Huyton to Wigan could be the more easier of the 3 parts of phase 2.

 

[Billyblue]

Residents near the railway in Huyton have been informed that overnight work is scheduled for "the installation of piled foundations to allow for the construction of new stanchions and overhead line equipment to be installed."
23.00 to 05.00 Sunday 21.09.14 to 23.00 to 05.00 Thursday 25.09.14 and the same schedule the following week to 02.10.14.

Contingency shifts are planned in for the same hours for 3 weeks from 05.10.14 to 23.10.14

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I agree with this, the only obstacles appear to be Carr Mill Viaduct, M6 and M57 bridges (plus the ones you mention at Wavertree and Springs Branch)
Has anyone heard from any authoritative source that the project is now going to run over?

There are a few clues:
- what we can see
- the report of late planning permission at Rainhill
- the report in Rail that said there were problems with the wiring train
- one insider's report that completion has slipped (linked to class 319 movements)

Phase 1 was finished "just in time", and they are clearly still working on the job.
I don't think we should be much bothered by a few weeks' delay in Phase 2, but any impact on later phases is a different matter.
It would mean they have not yet "learned the lessons".
A rescheduling of the rest of the programme would be bad news (for future electrification rollout if nothing else).

 

[snowball]

Has anyone heard from any authoritative source that the project is now going to run over?

It would apper that Class377/5 has heard something - see his posts #2501 and #2521.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Reports this morning of 30 min delays on Liverpool/Manchester services due to over run on engineering work at Earlestown.

 

[LDECRexile]

Also, wiring Ordsall Lane-Victoria seems fairly straightforward with virtually all the steelwork now up.

I agree with this from Ordsall Lane Jct to the western end of Victoria station, but the stretch which concerns me is the eastern half of both pairs of through tracks in Victoria station itself.

When I last visited ten days or so ago the western halves both had metalwork ("droppers"?) attached to the underside of the building above, as per Rainhill Skew Bridge or the M62 overbridge at Broad Green. The eastern halves, however, had nothing electrification-ish above them at all, just a sort of latticework from when the station was rebuilt some years ago. I asked in my report at the time whether anyone knows if that latticework will support wiring or is something else needed.

Has anything happened there to clarify the position? It will be very rum if electric trains can only use the western end of Victoria.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If I've read

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O30756/2014/09/15/advanced

rightly, then one or more 319s travelled from Wolverton to Allerton Depot yesterday.

Anyone know any more?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Has anything happened there to clarify the position? It will be very rum if electric trains can only use the western end of Victoria.

There's still a lot of station reconstruction work to be done at Victoria.
Weren't they going to replace the footbridge?
It may be something as simple as not wanting 25kV in the basement while they do things like that.
If there aren't enough EMUs to go round until May it wouldn't matter much.

 

[BantamMenace]

If I've read

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O30756/2014/09/15/advanced

rightly, then one or more 319s travelled from Wolverton to Allerton Depot yesterday.

Anyone know any more?

Yeah, I happened to be at the south end of crewe station awaiting my train to Nantwich when it passed through/round the back, didnt catch the number

 

[8A Rail]

yeah, i happened to be at the south end of crewe station awaiting my train to nantwich when it passed through/round the back, didnt catch the number

319380

 

[Class377/5]

It would apper that Class377/5 has heard something - see his posts #2501 and #2521.

Yes I've heard something, basically they are behind and fears are all of phase 2 may not be completed before May 2015.

Although driver training and refurbishment work can now go ahead full steam with additional 319 borrowed to Northern along with couple of units heading north early from the original plan.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes I've heard something, basically they are behind and fears are all of phase 2 may not be completed before May 2015.

Although driver training and refurbishment work can now go ahead full steam with additional 319 borrowed to Northern along with couple of units heading north early from the original plan.

Surely then it would make sense for all the focus to be on one section - say Liverpool via St Helens Jct - or the other route -one or the other.

 

[Llama]

The irony is that driver training might now start in earnest, but until drivers can keep knowledge retention on the 319s by driving them frequently enough to satisfy the relevant standards there is not really much point in being trained now if the service(s) can't start until May, if indeed it is ready by then.

The weather has been on the side of the construction work for months now, what chance of say further delays caused by poor winter weather?

 

[Ploughman]

I did a Lime St-Wigan-Roby-Earlestown-Lime St tour today, as follows.

I've added 20 photos here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...rification20134?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE

Don't think much of the quality of track laying evident in this photo.
https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...key=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE#6059328273540320530

 

[DJH1971]

The irony is that driver training might now start in earnest, but until drivers can keep knowledge retention on the 319s by driving them frequently enough to satisfy the relevant standards there is not really much point in being trained now if the service(s) can't start until May, if indeed it is ready by then.

The weather has been on the side of the construction work for months now, what chance of say further delays caused by poor winter weather?

Well, at least they have some opportunity at present then!

 

[childwallblues]

Don't think much of the quality of track laying evident in this photo.
https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...key=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE#6059328273540320530

Was your quality of track photo taken at Roby?

 

[DJH1971]

Was your quality of track photo taken at Roby?

It seems to be from around Roby - the uncompleted track is a giveaway!