Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[snowball]

I hope I have made this clear. Someone on here can probably explain it better.

Your explanation seems clear to me.

 

[LDECRexile]

Your explanation seems clear to me.

Me too, thank you.

 

[apk55]

Headspan design was cheaper than portal to allow more electrification at less cost. The problem is that the headspan wires move in high winds or when two pantographs pass a headspan simultaneous causing it to oscillate quite markedly. This in turn allows the contact wire to move upwards but also sideways beyond the pantograph width in a waveform until the pan is above the wire and pulls everything down at the next headspan. Portal structures do not alloy this oscillation by holding the catenary and contact wires at each support. I think you will find that dewirement on two track headspans is almost unheard of as the headspan wire is shorter and doesn't move to the extent of a four track headspan wire moves thus reducing the amount the contact wire is allowed to move.

Dewirement on the ECML is common because electrification here was done on the cheap so the distance between headspans was increased to save money. Had they been installed closer together reducing span length of suspended contact wire then deviation would have been less and dewirement would be very much reduced. Supports at Rainhill appear to be closer together than ECML so should be ok. I hope I have made this clear. Someone on here can probably explain it better.

Some other advantages of portal structures not mentioned

/ Smaller foundations would be required. With a portal structure the only load on the foudations is a a vertical load with little or no side thrust. With a headspan structure there is a massive side thrust on the poles requiring more massive foudations. This would also meam that the poles would have to be stronger to cope with this load.

/ Height. With a headspan structure the poles have to be high enough to allow for the drop of the headspan suspension wires and the insulator above the caternary suspension wire. With a portal structure the portal bar need only just be higher than the catenary suspension wire, and I have seen it done where the the suspension wire goes over the top of bar, supprted on pin insulators on the top. This massivly reduces the visual inpact.

 

[LDECRexile]

Some other advantages of portal structures not mentioned

/ Smaller foundations would be required. With a portal structure the only load on the foudations is a a vertical load with little or no side thrust. With a headspan structure there is a massive side thrust on the poles requiring more massive foudations. This would also meam that the poles would have to be stronger to cope with this load.

/ Height. With a headspan structure the poles have to be high enough to allow for the drop of the headspan suspension wires and the insulator above the caternary suspension wire. With a portal structure the portal bar need only just be higher than the catenary suspension wire, and I have seen it done where the the suspension wire goes over the top of bar, supprted on pin insulators on the top. This massivly reduces the visual inpact.

I agree with all these reasons and don't doubt Network Rail do, too. If it were just a matter of cost or engineering or dewirement etc I doubt there would be an issue. The Joker in the pack is beauty in the eye of the beholders, ie the Planning and conservation Wallahs. I reckon that rather than risk a costly and protracted war which could lead to mega egg on face Network Rail have gone for something acceptable to all parties rather than optimal for themselves and the likes of us.

 

[deltic08]

Some other advantages of portal structures not mentioned

/ Smaller foundations would be required. With a portal structure the only load on the foudations is a a vertical load with little or no side thrust. With a headspan structure there is a massive side thrust on the poles requiring more massive foudations. This would also meam that the poles would have to be stronger to cope with this load.

/ Height. With a headspan structure the poles have to be high enough to allow for the drop of the headspan suspension wires and the insulator above the caternary suspension wire. With a portal structure the portal bar need only just be higher than the catenary suspension wire, and I have seen it done where the the suspension wire goes over the top of bar, supprted on pin insulators on the top. This massivly reduces the visual inpact.

True. On the quad track ECML near me it can be seen that the masts are already moving inwards. When they were planted they had a notiiceable outward lean. Adding headspans pulled the tops together causing a slight banana shape to the uprights. Everything now looks upright. I assume headspans have been tightened on the adjusting screws unless dewirement is happening because they are now not taut enough.

 

[HSTEd]

That might just be settlement under tension.

I doubt it means the electrification equipment is all going to collapse in a few years.

 

[Class 170101]

I hope I have made this clear. Someone on here can probably explain it better.

All clear to me now.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I noticed today (Sat 8 Nov) that the gap between the Chat Moss wires and the new Victoria wires at Ordsall Lane has been closed, as least on the Up.
I didn't have time to get a close look, but it seems that a few registration arms have been installed at the eastern end of P6 at Victoria (the section outside the roof).
The AT wire is up between Rainhill and Whiston, with plenty of new bits and pieces over the rest of the route.

Edit: There are also some masts and registration arms installed on the goods lines around Waterloo Branch Jn (for the Bootle branch).
It's not clear how far the OHLE will extend down the branch.
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A bit more news from a trip today (Mon 10 Nov):

- I'd say there are about 20 masts/gantries missing between Roby/Huyton Jns, or about 40% (ie more than half done).
Several of these are going onto big flat concrete bases, most of which are in although a couple are still under sheeting.
- there's an earth wire running through St Helens Jn station on the Down.
Generally the Up line is behind the Down in terms of wiring progress around here.
AT/earth wires are now up over most of the Rainhill-Whiston stretch.
- all but one of the headspan masts at Rainhill station seem to be up
- work visible from the train on all 4 piers of the Sankey Viaduct. The parapet has been removed from sections on both sides except the one at the west end.
- no masts yet on the main line through Earlestown station, but the Warrington curve has masts and registration arms.
- nothing new to see on the Wigan branch except bases on the M6 bridge ready for masts.
There are still 10-ish missing masts on the route.
Looks like they are concentrating on the main line now.
It's looking really complicated at Wavertree where the new kit is interlaced with the old, and they still haven't removed the old dewired masts.

 

[LDECRexile]

I had an outing to the Earlestown area today. I won't attempt to avoid repeating anything LNW-GW has said, as I'm sure twice is harmless and much less effort.

1. En route had a shufty at Carr Mill Viaduct. Still scaffolding only. A lone Orangeman was there, but out of speaking range. I was reminded of the origins of Carr Mill Dam as a feeder for the Sankey Canal when two Canal and River Trust employees set off purposefully past me as I turned my car round.

2. Sankey Viaduct: stone has been removed from both sides of the tops of Columns 1, 4 and 7, Scaffolding has reached the top of the south side of Column 10 (ie the column at the western end) and scaffolding materials were in view on the ground near its north side. I would expect Column 10 to be fully available for stonemasons in the next couple of days.

I have received photos of and info about stonework 'up top'. Apparently some stones have steel 'pins' (which look like about half inch thick rods to me) to keep them together and in place. These are original and yet another example of Stephenson's skill.

3. Collins Green: no obvious changes.

4. Earlestown: the TTC over the bi-directional W-S curve has sprouted dangly bits. I fancy some portals towards the viaduct have done likewise, but they may have been sprouting before. In any event they are sprouting now. A mast has gone up on the south side between the platforms and Junction Lane bridge.

There will be three masts on Platform 1. The one towards the western end next to the back of the booking office has been curing for a while now, it has four fat bolts protruding from concrete, many such have been built in Phase 2. The one mid-platform, where I recorded 10 metre soil samples being taken a while ago has been very effectively covered. I simple cannot tell what is under the cover, be it base, hole or whatever. The one towards the eastern end is safely fenced but exposed to view. It is of a design I haven't come across before, ie a cylindrical metal pile with six bolt holes in the rim. I have recorded some like that with four holes, but a six-pack is new to me.

I'll post photos later tonight. Unless anyone can point out otherwise I think the changes reported in the last few days are widespread and incremental, so they fall between the cracks, so to speak, in terms of updating the "where we're up to" spreadsheet.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A bit more news from a trip today (Mon 10 Nov):

I had an outing to the Earlestown area today.

Thank you both for your updates. I am looking forward to making a pilgrimage myself while I am home from the USA Dec 19th -Jan 3rd. Always saddened me this was not done in the 1986-1994 timeframe though. At least it is getting done and I eagerly read updates in the USA on a daily basis.

 

[LDECRexile]

I've added a dozen photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

I'll add the rest tomorrow night.

 

[Olaf]

The September update to the CP5 Delivery Plan has been published:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/cp5-delivery-plan/cp5-enhancements-delivery-plan.pdf

There are changes to the scope and text of the North of England Program, but the most significant changes are to the details in the milestones table.
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But lessons aren't learnt that way and money goes away leaving less to invest in the rest of the network.

The principle is to remove under-performers, not to under-resource the team; there appears to be sufficient evidence to suggest that non-performance in the planning has been part of the problem with this particular project and thus the make-up of the team would likely be reviewed, if indeed this has not already happened.

 

[LDECRexile]

The September update to the CP5 Delivery Plan has been published:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/cp5-delivery-plan/cp5-enhancements-delivery-plan.pdf

There are changes to the scope and text of the North of England Program, but the most significant changes are to the details in the milestones table.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The principle is to remove under-performers, not to under-resource the team; there appears to be sufficient evidence to suggest that non-performance in the planning has been part of the problem with this particular project and thus the make-up of the team would likely be reviewed, if indeed this has not already happened.

Very interesting and informative, thank you.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The September update to the CP5 Delivery Plan has been published:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/cp5-delivery-plan/cp5-enhancements-delivery-plan.pdf

Well spotted.
So they are still going to complete Edge Hill-Earlestown/Springs Branch on time in December? I think not.
Ordsall Lane-Victoria now April 2015.

No change to later phases either, except Blackpool now Feb 2017.
I wouldn't like to be the manager reporting progress at their project reviews...

 

[thealexweb]

Well spotted.
So they are still going to complete Edge Hill-Earlestown/Springs Branch on time in December? I think not.
Ordsall Lane-Victoria now April 2015.

No change to later phases either, except Blackpool now Feb 2017.
I wouldn't like to be the manager reporting progress at their project reviews...

Speaking of Blackpool North, it has eight platforms yet they only plan to provide overhead wires to six of these? Why?

"Preston Fylde Junction – Blackpool North (including platforms 1 to 6); "

 

[snowball]

No change to later phases either, except Blackpool now Feb 2017.

I think that was already in the June update.

Speaking of Blackpool North, it has eight platforms yet they only plan to provide overhead wires to six of these? Why?

"Preston Fylde Junction – Blackpool North (including platforms 1 to 6); "

How many platforms are used routinely? I imagine some are only used at summer weekends, by trains that have come by routes not currently planned for electrification? I would imagine six wired will be ample for the next ten years.

 

[AngelicUpstart]

How many platforms are used routinely? I imagine some are only used at summer weekends, by trains that have come by routes not currently planned for electrification?

Summer weekends? No difference to a winter weekend now. The planned 6 platforms will be more than capable of serving the current services and would probably be able to cater for double teh current services, if not more.

 

[Llama]

The plan is (was) to rebuild all platforms at BPN in order to make them compliant with modern Group Standards and at the same time reduce the number of platforms from eight (even though platform 8 has been out of use for a significant period of time) to six.

Restrictions exist as to what type of traction can use certain platforms at Blackpool as it is.

 

[snowball]

What does the abbreviation JTI mean, that occurs several times in the CP5 plan? For example, "Rochdale capacity and Calder Valley JTI"?

Edit: never mind, I think it's journey time improvements.

 

[Olaf]

Well spotted.
So they are still going to complete Edge Hill-Earlestown/Springs Branch on time in December? I think not.
Ordsall Lane-Victoria now April 2015.

No change to later phases either, except Blackpool now Feb 2017.
I wouldn't like to be the manager reporting progress at their project reviews...

Yes, it does sound very optimistic.

 

[Class377/5]

What does the abbreviation JTI mean, that occurs several times in the CP5 plan? For example, "Rochdale capacity and Calder Valley JTI"?

Edit: never mind, I think it's journey time improvements.

You are correct.

 

[DJH1971]

Well, it appears that return wiring is now on the down line (going east) through St Helens Junction.

 

[driver9000]

Summer weekends? No difference to a winter weekend now. The planned 6 platforms will be more than capable of serving the current services and would probably be able to cater for double teh current services, if not more.

Platform 8 has already been abandoned with no adverse effect on the service. 6 straightened platforms and a remodelled throat will be more than adequate.

 

[LDECRexile]

Well, it appears that return wiring is now on the down line (going east) through St Helens Junction.

Well spotted, thanks.

Spreadsheet updated accordingly, as below.

 

[LDECRexile]

I have belatedly added nine recent photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As I slowly get my head round flickr I have added a new album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649277347062/

This incorporates some photos not used before and presents the whole in a different way from the core "everything more or less publishable" which I have been sending out for a while. With luck it will be self-explanatory.

I aim to do similar albums for other locations, or maybe meld similar into one. I'm not sure which yet, this is a pretty steep learning curve.

 

[tomneedham85]

Foundation works on Carr Mill will be commencing this coming week.
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M57 motorway will have road closures in place tommorow evening whilst works are carried out also.

 

[PDG1949]

Just when you thought all the Listed Building Consent Alteration docs were done-and-dusted, here's another one for the footbridge at Earlestown Station -

http://llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=101700

...and look when the public consultation date ends - 4th Dec !

 

[DJH1971]

Foundation works on Carr Mill will be commencing this coming week.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
M57 motorway will have road closures in place tommorow evening whilst works are carried out also.

A good sign!

 

[LDECRexile]

Foundation works on Carr Mill will be commencing this coming week.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
M57 motorway will have road closures in place tommorow evening whilst works are carried out also.

Helpful, thank you
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just when you thought all the Listed Building Consent Alteration docs were done-and-dusted, here's another one for the footbridge at Earlestown Station -

http://llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=101700

...and look when the public consultation date ends - 4th Dec !

It appears to be seeking permission to replace like with similar, except in metal, so shouldn't cause massive disruption, but even so, it dunnarf seem rum to be asking for this at this late stage.

 

[Wavertreelad]

North West Spark reporting blockade east of Edge Hill to Earlestown on 27th and 28th Dec 2014.

"Saturday, 15 November 2014

Christmas Blockade

I gather there will be no trains east of Edge Hill as far as Earlestown and St Helens Central on Saturday 27 and Sunday 28 December.

As far as I am aware this has not been announced before, and at present the timetable database is still showing trains on these days. The Merseyrail "Christmas and New Year" leaflet doesn't know about it either.

Last minute electrification works?"http://nw-sparks.blogspot.co.uk/