DJH1971
Established Member
Which is where the new electrified west to south curve at Earlestown will come into play!
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Manchester - Liverpool Electrification
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Which is where the new electrified west to south curve at Earlestown will come into play!
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The ones I've looked at are routed via Manchester.
Similar diversions are in the timetable for the other May bank holiday as well.
Cheers,
Phil
DJH1971
Established Member
I would have thought they would made us of that line.
I guess it must be something to do with Weaver Junction as well as Runcorn.
LDECRexile
Established Member
As you will see in due course we filmed a steel (not scrap) train run through Earlestown on the westbound track (Platform 2) between midnight and 01:00 3rd April 2015.
For what it's worth that was the first freight train I've ever seen on that track, RHTT and works trains excepted.
It was a 'proper train', lots of flat wagons loaded with steel in many shapes and sizes. I think 'Corus' appeared somewhere, but I was trying to concentrate on filming.
I can't find it on realtimetrains.
Can anyone shed any light on:
1. what it was
and
2. where I might look in future for details of such unexpected bonuses?
Thanks in anticipation.
Dave
For what it's worth that was the first freight train I've ever seen on that track, RHTT and works trains excepted.
It was a 'proper train', lots of flat wagons loaded with steel in many shapes and sizes. I think 'Corus' appeared somewhere, but I was trying to concentrate on filming.
I can't find it on realtimetrains.
Can anyone shed any light on:
1. what it was
and
2. where I might look in future for details of such unexpected bonuses?
Thanks in anticipation.
Dave
I filmed that one going through Huyton at about 00.15 am. Shortly before that a coal train had gone through and, just as I was leaving, the signal changed to green and the train pulling steel came through. Earlier a 319 and a Pendolino had passed through, eastbound. I have a video of the steel train and the 319 but the camera failed on the Pendolino
Eric Wickens
New Member
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- 9 Jul 2013
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It would be Tinsley to Seaforth Loaded Steel runs FO returns Friday Teatime to Tinsley.
LDECRexile
Established Member
Your lad and I found that Dropbox worked a treat to send me biggies like films.
Kind regards
Dave
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Fab, thank you and welcome.
How come I can't find it on realtimetrains, is it just me?
How can I find out answers such as yours for myself? Is there an on-line or paper reference work?
Dave
Dave,
I'm only just getting my head around push button phones lol I'll get him to do it.
Bill
Eric Wickens
New Member
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- 9 Jul 2013
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- 4
Re Tinsley to Seaforth Loaded Steel 6M12.
It is normally shown on RealTime Trains on Huddersfield or Hebden Bridge Timetables but i could not find it on either sites.The only reason i knew it was working was the return working in shown on Hebden Bridge for Friday Evening it is working back a very long way round because Manchester Vic is closed the Engine is 60099 as shown on M Nevitts Trains site as working 6E14
which is Seaforth to Tinsley.Hope this is of some help.
Eric G Wickens.
It is normally shown on RealTime Trains on Huddersfield or Hebden Bridge Timetables but i could not find it on either sites.The only reason i knew it was working was the return working in shown on Hebden Bridge for Friday Evening it is working back a very long way round because Manchester Vic is closed the Engine is 60099 as shown on M Nevitts Trains site as working 6E14
which is Seaforth to Tinsley.Hope this is of some help.
Eric G Wickens.
LDECRexile
Established Member
Aha, I've never seen this site before, here's a link if anyone fancies a shufty:
www.mnevattuktrains.co.uk
I haven't explored it yet, but it looks fun.
You mention 60099, I immediately think 'Call Boy', it's an old fogey thing.
Kind regards
Dave
PS: Good to hear of steel still emanating from Tinsley, I feared that sort of thing had long died a death. I know at least one contributor to this forum for whom Tinsley has special resonance.
Plenty of orange man action on the OHLE at Victoria today, I think this weekend will most certainly see it finished. Also we have some nice new LED signal heads at the west end and Manchester North SC is now closed/on the run down. So long Man North!
LDECRexile
Established Member
As you will have gathered from posts throughout the day Bill from Huyton, Paul and I were on the midnight shift last night.
I've added Bill's films to his album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648707438634/
I've added Paul's films to his album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/
and all our efforts to the Combined Volume here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/
I'll try to write them up properly over the next couple of days, but we have family coming from near and far....
Dave
I've added Bill's films to his album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648707438634/
I've added Paul's films to his album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/
and all our efforts to the Combined Volume here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/
I'll try to write them up properly over the next couple of days, but we have family coming from near and far....
Dave
Class 170101
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2014
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- 7,993
Good shots. I salute you all standing out there in the rain at 'silly' o clock.
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Due to Manchester Victoria weekend closure, the train was rerouted via Edge Hill Wapping and Runcorn. See (only available until 10th April) - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H14961/2015/04/03/advanced
If you are seeking trains in and out of Liverpool Docks on RTT, best location to put in is "Bootle Jn" and amend the services to "Non passenger services" and they all come up.
LDECRexile
Established Member
Thanks Doug
The 'Bootle Jn' tip is good, much appreciated.
The train I couldn't find on realtimetrains, even though Bill, Paul and I all filmed it and saw it with our own eyes is the loaded train around midnight on 2nd/3rd. Eric Wickens couldn't find it and from correspondence with Phil Wieland, neither could he, though he has found it using another, lower level data feed. Its reporting number (if that's the right term) is 6M12.
I suspect, from a base of considerable ignorance, is that the train was rescheduled from another day, I fancy someone has said in the correspondence that it is Fridays Only, but we all saw and filmed it a day earlier, maybe because of Easter or some ship sailing or whatever.
Can you find
'Train 4033613 (H14755) 20:24 Tinsley Sorting Sidings to Seaforth Container Terminal Mersey Docks & Harbour Commission'
anywhere among your resources?
Kind regards
Dave
A simple answer is no. Why? The train above as far as I am aware operated as a "VSTP" as it was rescheduled to depart earlier than the normal time of 23.23hrs as per other Thursday evenings. Obviously due to the impending Manchester Victoria blockade and DBS wish to get it through before the planned closure time, it would be rescheduled (at last minute by the looks of it) hence why you noted it when you did. The normal path (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H14755/2015/04/02/advanced) was cancelled in consequence. For info "VSTP" schedule's being literally last minute arrangement do not generally appear on RTT in consequence. HTH.
LDECRexile
Established Member
VSTP schedules being last minute so they don't appear on a timetable makes sense. (Thinks: I wonder what VSTP stands for.)
The train actually set off on Wednesday at 20:24 out of Tinsley, ie 27 hours earlier than normal and ran along what I would call the 'direct' route, ie Tinsley-Wakefield Kirkgate-Marsden-Man Vic-Earlestown-Olive Mount Jct, as opposed to the 'railtour' version round via Northwich as per the cancelled train on realtimetrains.
Whatever the planned and actual route, your explanation of it not showing on reatlimetrains because it was changed at the very last minute holds water, thank you.
Dave
Techniquest
Veteran Member
VSTP = Very Short Term Planning 
You said set off on Wednesday? Your sighting of the train was on the 3rd, i.e. very early Friday morning (see above) which would suggest it departed Tinsley SS, Thursday evening, not Wednesday, otherwise it would need to lay up somewhere for approx 20 hours pending next movement. Do you have further information in the circumstances of the Wednesday departure please?
For info 6E14 is always booked via Manchester Victoria but because of the planned closure of the station, revised route and timings were put into place in advance hence the diversion for Good Friday. HTH.
Here is next Thursday / Friday planned working -
6M12 = http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H14755/2015/04/09/advanced
6E14 = http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H14961/2015/04/10/advanced
LDECRexile
Established Member
Blimey, now I don't even know what day of the week it is.
It set off on Thursday evening and passed Paul, Bill and me just after midnight, ie very early Friday.
Doh!
Sorry to have wasted your time.
Dave
You have not wasted my time, so no problems.
But at least we have solved the mystery.The train was not VSTP, it was an STP (You can guess what that stands for.) overlay which was delivered in the timetable update dated 01/04/15 23:05:40Z (i.e. Wednesday night/Thursday morning.).
I've no idea why it was missing from realtimetrains, they're usually spot on.
I've no idea why it was missing from realtimetrains, they're usually spot on.
If that was the case then you can understand why I suggested VSTP then, as it is highly unusual for STP not to appear on RTT.
There's a very interesting article in Modern Railways, April 2015, pp. 66-71, by Richard Pollard. It's about the challenge of designing overhead electrification in the presence of listed bridges and buildings, and mentions examples from several lines.
I hope people will forgive me for posting this in several threads. I'm doing it because there may be people who only read the thread about their favourite line.
I hope people will forgive me for posting this in several threads. I'm doing it because there may be people who only read the thread about their favourite line.
Yes indeed. I sometimes find discrepancies between my private system and realtimetrains, and I think in all the cases before this one, mine was wrong and RTT was right. That's one of the reasons why I don't make my system available to all.
This particular train had an extra peculiarity, a STP Cancellation for the 2 April run was put in the timetable on 27 March. This was later deleted, on the same day as the overlay was added. Perhaps RTT was confused by this.
PDG1949
Member
GreAT !
LDECRexile
Established Member
Fear not, this is not about how many times the 319 train 5T19 went through Huyton Junction the other day, or on what day or any of the other grave matters which we've enjoyed of late.
This is about whether the train went through St Helens Down Goods Loop AT ALL.
Oooooh, I hear you cry.
Paul and I went exploring the DGL today. We will wager your pensions that:
1. it is not electrified
2. it is rusty, and
3. there is a sign at it's northern end saying 'Electric trains no access to Down Goods Loop' (or very close to that wording, similar to the one between the tracks in St Helens Central station where the trailing crossover isn't wired.)
Whizzing past on trains at speed the trailing crossover immediately north of the northern end of the DGL looked shiny.
We reckon the tests were about that trailing crossover and possibly about the 'wrong direction' signal at Huyton. They may be to ensure all is are dotted and ts crossed before or whilst asking ORR's blessing to run electric trains along the Wigan Branch.
Phew!
This is about whether the train went through St Helens Down Goods Loop AT ALL.
Oooooh, I hear you cry.
Paul and I went exploring the DGL today. We will wager your pensions that:
1. it is not electrified
2. it is rusty, and
3. there is a sign at it's northern end saying 'Electric trains no access to Down Goods Loop' (or very close to that wording, similar to the one between the tracks in St Helens Central station where the trailing crossover isn't wired.)
Whizzing past on trains at speed the trailing crossover immediately north of the northern end of the DGL looked shiny.
We reckon the tests were about that trailing crossover and possibly about the 'wrong direction' signal at Huyton. They may be to ensure all is are dotted and ts crossed before or whilst asking ORR's blessing to run electric trains along the Wigan Branch.
Phew!
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RichmondCommu
Established Member
Yes I read that too. There was quite a bit about the forthcoming electrification work through Belper on the MML and how they plan to work around all the listed bridges that are in the centre of the town. It was suggested that at least one of them will need to be altered which by all accounts is pretty rare for a listed structure.
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