Manchester Metrolink master thread

[Manchester77]

Frequently Used Metrolink Abbriviations:-
SML - South Manchester Line (From Firswood Junction to St Werbugh's Road)
ORL - Oldham/Rochdale Line (From Irk Valley Junction to Rochdale Town Centre)
EML - East Manchester Line (From Piccadilly to Ashton-Under-Lyne)
TMS - Tram Management System (Line of Sight based new system)
ATS - Automatic Tram Stop (In use on Bury & Altrincham Lines)
VRS - Vehicle Recognition System (Predecessor to TMS used when the Eccles Line first opened)
PID - Passenger Information Display
CC - City Centre Routes (From Deansgate-Castelfield to Victoria via Piccadilly)
1CC - First City Crossing (via Market Street)
2CC - Second City Crossing (via Exchange Square)
ALT - Altrincham / Altrincham Line
BUR - Bury / Bury Line
M5000 - New Metrolink trams (Numbered 3XXX)
T68 - Origanal Metrolink Trams (Numbered 1XXX)
T68A - Second type of Metrolink Trams (Numbered 2XXX)
Met - Abbriviated 'Metrolink'
RRS - Rochdale Railway Station
RTC - Rochdale Town Centre
OTC - Oldham Town Centre
SWR - St Werbugh's Road
QRD - Queens Road Depot
OTD - Old Trafford Depot
CBK - Cornbrook Station
POM - Pomona Station
VIC - Victoria Metrolink
CPK - Central Park Station
ECC - Eccles / Eccles Line
PIC - Piccadilly Metrolink
MCUK - MediaCityUK

 

[Starmill]

Metrolink Jargon-Buster:

TMS = Tram Management System, a new 'line of sight' signalling system
SML = South Manchester Line, leaves the Altrincham Line at Trafford Bar, goes to East Didsbury (currently open to St Werburgh's Road 'SWR')
ORL = Oldham-Rochdale Line, the former Oldham Loop Line, leaves the Bury Line just by Queens Road Depot (QRD)
PSR = Passenger Services Representative, some of which are also known as 'Travel Safe Officers' - TSOs
2CC = Second City Crossing, construction to commence shortly (?) New link from Victoria to St Peter's Square (SPS) via exchange square.

Note that TLAs for stops are unofficial wont to being hijacked, I'm not sure there is an official list!


EDIT: M77 beat me to it, I'll leave one or two above for some background...

 

[table38]

TLA = Three Letter Acronym by the way. Almost certainly the most useless TLA in the world

We were taught that the most useless TLA is "FLA" which is a Four Letter Acronym

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Frequently Used Metrolink Abbriviations:-
RRS - Rochdale Railway Station

Not to be confused with RCD which is the three-letter station code for the heavy-rail Rochdale railway station.

 

[Starmill]

Not to be confused with RCD which is the three-letter station code for the heavy-rail Rochdale railway station.

And I suspect that there is yet another code assigned to it as K738 RCHDLE STN MTLK! Can anyone find it?

For example, G401 CORNBROOK MTLK is 'COZ' and despite the fact that Altrincham (National Rail) is ALT, G217 ALTRINCHAM MTLK is, according to here, 'XNA'!

 

[Rail Bus]

:roll:

Because SWR won't have had any trams down there either. There are more and more trams as we get more services and until the roll out of TMS capacity over the Cornbrook viaduct will remain at 30 tph.

New signalling? Which isn't currently operational. After TMS there won't be any 'red lights' and even that doesn't mean that it's not working...
They're railway signals so when your on a train and it stops at a red signal doesn't mean it doesn't work, do you actually have any idea how it operates?!

I think your misunderstood me, all the St Werburghs were in service. I watched them pass me by for an hour, then got one of them to cornbrook and watched them pass me by for another half hour

Hundreds of elderly people at St Peters Square, nobody from Metrolink in sight and lack of info over the tanoy. Thankfully a fellow passenger with knowledge was able to direct people to the 263 bus, otherwise someone frail could easily have been taken ill

Disgrace

Incidentally I know what signals are for

 

[Manchester77]

I think your misunderstood me, all the St Werburghs were in service. I watched them pass me by for an hour, then got one of them to cornbrook and watched them pass me by for another half hour


Disgrace

Incidentally I know what signals are for

I know they'll have been service. Think of it like a blood clot, the flow is restricted and clogs up and is blocked up and the system has a 'heart attack' (severe delay). When the clot has gone you can move blood from the back to the front and T&H same with the met. You can't move trams in the front of the queue back unfortunately they'll have bunched...

Then why are you surprised when you have to stop at one? The number and frequency of trams means that this will happen until roll out of TMS

 

[Rail Bus]

I know they'll have been service. Think of it like a blood clot, the flow is restricted and clogs up and is blocked up and the system has a 'heart attack' (severe delay). When the clot has gone you can move blood from the back to the front and T&H same with the met. You can't move trams in the front of the queue back unfortunately they'll have bunched...

Then why are you surprised when you have to stop at one? The number and frequency of trams means that this will happen until roll out of TMS

Please dont patronise me - you still havent explained why some of those free flowing St Werburghs couldn't have been redirected to Altrincham, and in turn the clogged up Altrinchams been directed to St Werburghs?

Or addressed the total breakdown of customer service, which is poor at the best of times

Also you miss my point about signals, it because TMS dosent work we have such problems. Bespoke system that should have been working two years ago

Who footing the bill? The tax payer?

You need to get out of your metrolink bubble, and see how things really are for the paying public

 

[Manchester77]

Please dont patronise me - you still havent explained why some of those free flowing St Werburghs couldn't have been redirected to Altrincham, and in turn the clogged up Altrinchams been directed to St Werburghs?

Or addressed the total breakdown of customer service, which is poor at the best of times

Also you miss my point about signals, it because TMS dosent work we have such problems. Bespoke system that should have been working two years ago

Who footing the bill? The tax payer?

You need to get out of your metrolink bubble, and see how things really are for the paying public

Oh sorry, didn't realise I work for metrolink now... :roll: I don't even know why there was a breakdown all I've done is analyse what has been said from metrolink, my friend (who does work for metrolink) and what's been said on SCC. If you're really that bothered email metrolink instead of crying on here.
And how was that patronising... I used an analogy wow :roll:

If the trams coming to Altrincham were anything other than an M5000 they couldn't be sent onto SML-ORL services so that takes out any directs and the occasional few T68As you see when M5000s are in for maintenance. Additionally M5000s are based at two different depots and (I think) are all allocated to them. A the end of service if they have too many trams on the Queens Road side then you'll have drivers working later = unhappy unions. Also, I bet if you were a passenger on one of those trams you'd be complaining that the tram your were on became an Atrincham tram after waiting for half an hour in the delay. To be frank, no matter what I say you're not actually going to be happy with it so...

You cannot blame metrolink about TMS, it is being installed by Thales who have been incredibly awkward throughout. There have been numerous times that Metrolink k have actually taken them to court over the issue. And I'd imagine Thales. And no it shouldn't, roll out was supposed to commence some time in 2011 which I think it kinda did on the Eccles Line and its in operation on test in CC.

Hm do I do I really so am I when I get on the met every week not a member of the 'paying public'?

 

[Starmill]

Please dont patronise me - you still havent explained why some of those free flowing St Werburghs couldn't have been redirected to Altrincham, and in turn the clogged up Altrinchams been directed to St Werburghs?

I am not Metrolink's operational wizard, but I will hazard a guess as to the answer to your question, since you keep repeating it:

I think drivers and trams are assigned to one of the depots: Old Trafford and Queens Road - if memory serves (and its not all changed) the St Werburgs Road to Rochdale services are catered for by Old Trafford, as are the Piccadilly to Altrinchams. The Altrincham to Burys however, come from Queens Road (or a mixture of roughly those proportions). I can't remember how many Werbys to Rochdale trams there are, but it is a lot. I think there are 10 Alt-Burys and 6 Pic-Alts.

It may be exceptionally difficult to swap a tram and its driver onto a duty booked for another depot; what would happen to the driver at the end of his shift?! If you swap one tram from the Werbys to Rochdale set to the Pic-Alt set (which may well be an option if they are both provided from the same depots), you'd have to swap another from the Pic-Alt set to the werbys to Rochdale set wouldn't you, or you would run out of trams operating that line! And this cannot be done if the Pic-Alt vehicles are all stuck down the Altrincham line. Even then you'd have to be careful to make sure that drivers could get to the points where they can be relieved and more importantly that there is someone there to relieve them.

I don't know what was happening on the day; if there were loads of St Werburghs trams where you were, that means there was a massive gap in them somewhere else doesn't it? People waiting in that gap would suffer even further if all of their trams were switched to Altrincham services, and as such could not reverse in Chorlton and go back up to Rochdale, wouldn't they? Sometimes, operational flexibility will come into play too, for example, T68s/T68As are not permitted on much of the new track. Some trams are singles, some are doubles - they can't always be swapped.

Occasionally, trams will change destination en-route, but this is almost always to simply turn them around and get them back on another duty as soon as possible, even if it invloves a diversion or a swap with another tram.

To sum up, its not very customer-friendly in the short term, but there is almost no operational benefit to randomly reassigning the destinations of trams as they arrive. The controllers need to look carefully at where the bunching has occurred and get trams out to fill the missed workings as fast as possible, which is generally done by turning services short which are already on those workings to make up time.

 

[Manchester77]

12 trams are required for SWR-RRS
9 are needed for Droylsden - Bury

 

[Rhydgaled]

Why can't we close Mosley St? Because there are no 'next tram' screens in the city centre. Why's that? Because the new signalling doesn't work! See what it all comes down to?

Why does the lack of 'next tram' screens stop them closing the Mosley Street stop?

Frequently Used Metrolink Abbriviations:-

Thanks for posting these to help folk (including me) understand. I would however like to add a bit more detail, which I believe to be correct:

M5000 - New Metrolink trams (Numbered in 3xxx series, hence I sometimes might call 'em Metrolink mrk3 trams)
T68 - Origanal Metrolink Trams (Numbered in 1xxx series, hence I sometimes might call 'em Metrolink mrk1 trams)
T68A - Second type of Metrolink Trams (Numbered in 2xxx series, hence I sometimes might call 'em Metrolink mrk2 trams)

Note that TLAs for stops are unofficial wont to being hijacked, I'm not sure there is an official list!

I think there are official TLAs for Metrolink stops (also for some towns without rail services, including Cardigan and Brecon). Just use the East Coast journey planner (and I think the First Great Western one), try entering SLE (I think that's Sale Metrolink).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You cannot blame metrolink about TMS, it is being installed by Thales who have been incredibly awkward throughout. There have been numerous times that Metrolink have actually taken them to court over the issue.

Was there any legal ruling made on the muli-million pound claim for extra contractual works by Thales ?

 

[gnolife]

The official station codes (taken from Avantix Traveller), are as follows. Note that I can't get the ones Derker and further out, and New Islington and further out, partly because my version of Avantix Traveller is out of date (for Derker and Shaw), and beyond New Islington (because Avantix Traveller itself is out of date). Also note that Freehold, South Chadderton, Trafford Bar, Navigation Road and the city zone stations all seem to lack codes.

BUR Bury
RCF Radcliffe
WTF Whitefield
BOB Besses o' th' Barn
PWC Prestwich
HPK Heaton Park
BKV Bowker Vale
CRJ Crumpsall
AHM Abraham Moss
WDR Woodlands Road
OLM Oldham Mumps
HOD Hollinwood
FLS Failsworth
NMM Newton Heath & Moston
CEM Central Park
MSM Monsall
COZ Cornbrook
PMO Pomona
EXQ Exchange Quay
SAQ Salford Quays
ANH Anchorage
HBC Harbour City
MCT MediaCity
BRD Broadway
LWY Langworthy
WMT Weaste
LDW Ladywell (Not to be confused with LAD, which is the Ladywell in Lewisham
ECM Eccles
FWN Firswood
CNK Chorlton
OTR Old Trafford
SRF Stretford
DRD Dane Road
BOK Brooklands
XNA Altrincham

 

[radamfi]

Why does the lack of 'next tram' screens stop them closing the Mosley Street stop?

Without Mosley Street, the first tram towards the south could come from either Market Street or Piccadilly Gardens. So putting a display at Mosley Street would enable passengers to decide which station to go to. This is 'compensation' for those inconvenienced by the closure of Mosley Street.

 

[Starmill]

The official station codes (taken from Avantix Traveller), are as follows. Note that I can't get the ones Derker and further out, and New Islington and further out, partly because my version of Avantix Traveller is out of date (for Derker and Shaw), and beyond New Islington (because Avantix Traveller itself is out of date). Also note that Freehold, South Chadderton, Trafford Bar, Navigation Road and the city zone stations all seem to lack codes.

...

Ahhhh I see! How enlightening! Thank you!

The point about Mosley St is correct to my knowledge also. I'm unsure of the details, but I think the provision of some sort of indicator to be placed somewhere in Piccadilly Gardens was part of the closure deal.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Without Mosley Street, the first tram towards the south could come from either Market Street or Piccadilly Gardens. So putting a display at Mosley Street would enable passengers to decide which station to go to. This is 'compensation' for those inconvenienced by the closure of Mosley Street.

Thanks, I guess that kinda makes sense. Still, by the time you got to Market Street from Mosley Street you might have missed the tram and have to run back to Piccadilly Gardens to try and get the next one.

 

[Nym]

Thanks, I guess that kinda makes sense. Still, by the time you got to Market Street from Mosley Street you might have missed the tram and have to run back to Piccadilly Gardens to try and get the next one.

Or simply get the 1st tram towards Deansgate and change there? If only the available frequencies on metrolink allowed this...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Ahhhh I see! How enlightening! Thank you!
The point about Mosley St is correct to my knowledge also. I'm unsure of the details, but I think the provision of some sort of indicator to be placed somewhere in Piccadilly Gardens was part of the closure deal.

When 2CC is operational, will there be a need for such an indicator to be placed at Manchester Victoria station, using the same logic used in the closure deal regarding Mosley Street ?

 

[martin2345uk]

Only if the same service uses alternate city crossings which I believe is unlikely.

 

[martin2345uk]

Actually I'm not even quite sure what you mean there Paul - how will the situation at Vic be similar to Mosley Street?

 

[Class377/5]

When 2CC is operational, will there be a need for such an indicator to be placed at Manchester Victoria station, using the same logic used in the closure deal regarding Mosley Street ?

No because all southbound's will go from one island platform and all northbound from another so you only have to stand in one place to access trams in a certain direction. Same applies for new St Peters Square station.

 

[martin2345uk]

Ah now I get what the question was thanks Mack!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No because all southbound's will go from one island platform and all northbound from another so you only have to stand in one place to access trams in a certain direction. Same applies for new St Peters Square station.

Thank you for this explanation. I was unaware of what the exact platform situation would be at Manchester Victoria when the current Metrolink station there was extended.

 

[Class377/5]

Ah now I get what the question was thanks Mack!

Thank you for this explanation. I was unaware of what the exact platform situation would be at Manchester Victoria when the current Metrolink station there was extended.

Glad to be of help.

 

[WatcherZero]

Was there any legal ruling made on the muli-million pound claim for extra contractual works by Thales ?

Last I heard is that Thales were complying with the ruling to share the documents with TfGM although dragging heels in a few areas with 'missing' documents having to be re-requested before being handed over. Will take TfGM several months to go through the thousands of pages.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Metrolink infrastructural works on the final leg from Rochdale railway station into the town centre seem to be well on target. It will be good to see Drake Street once it is back to normal.

 

[Manchester77]

Tram reported at East Didsbury at 16:30 yesterday

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I did the Droylsden branch ex-Piccadilly on Sunday afternoon - it was silent eastbound (about 8 passengers were onboard after Picc, most left by Etihad Campus and I was the only one from Edge Lane onwards), and once again I was the only one back from Droylsden too, however about 3-7 joined at each halt thereafter back into Manchester, about there were about 20-30 onboard as we approached Piccadilly again. I will agree with the poster who said that it is the most 'diverse' of the current Metrolink lines - from Picc you pass through what I assume was Victorian Manchester around Holt Town, out towards the massive sporting developments at Velopark, through some relative backstreets then down the centre of an A road for goodness only knows how from just east of Clayton Park all the way to Droylsden.

Another slightly odd thing I noticed was how you couldn't physically push £1 coins into the TVM at Piccadilly, I had to put them in then jab at them with a thinner £2 coin for them to drop!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I did the Droylsden branch ex-Piccadilly on Sunday afternoon- it was silent eastbound (about 8 passengers were onboard after Picc, most left by Etihad Campus and I was the only one from Edge Lane onwards), and once again I was the only one back from Droylsden too, however about 3-7 joined at each halt thereafter back into Manchester, about there were about 20-30 onboard as we approached Piccadilly again.

I am sure that you will agree that a Sunday afternoon is not the best time to evaluate the normal passenger loadings.