Manchester Victoria or Manchester Piccadilly

[Djgr]

Anybody remember the centreline bus? pre metrolink it would wend its way through the city centre from picc to vic. quicker to walk.

Free buses still run!

 

[Falcon1200]

Free buses still run!

The last time I used one from Piccadilly to Victoria it took an age via a convoluted route, stopped for a while halfway, and at Victoria sailed past the usual stop due to roadworks and dropped me miles from the station ! At least it was free..... Would it not be possible to allow free travel between (only) Piccadilly and Victoria via Tramlink, much quicker and nicer ?

 

[Ken H]

Free buses still run!

I dont think centreline was free, or am I confusing it with the bus stn - city stn 401 service in Leeds??

 

[jfollows]

I dont think centreline was free, or am I confusing it with the bus stn - city stn 401 service in Leeds??

You're right I think, Wikipedia notes that it cost 2p (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_buses_in_Greater_Manchester)

To address the problem of cross-city transit, the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (SELNEC's successor) proposed a new circular shuttle bus service between Piccadilly and Victoria stations.[9] The new Centreline bus service was initially opposed by the Taxi Owners' Association, but was approved by the North Western Traffic Commissioner.[10] Centreline was first operated using a fleet of Seddon Pennine IV midibuses, noted for their diminutive appearance.[11]GMPTE also introduced an experimental battery-electric bus onto Centreline, the Lucas Electric Bus, which was based on the Seddon chassis and body. This was Greater Manchester's second electric bus, the first being SELNEC's experimental Silent Rider, but it was eventually taken out of service.[12] Operated under the Greater Manchester Transport brand, Centreline came into operation on 1 July 1974. Passengers were charged a flat fare of 2p for each journey.[13]

 

[Ianno87]

I dont think centreline was free, or am I confusing it with the bus stn - city stn 401 service in Leeds??

Centreline wasn't free. It became free when it became "Metroshuttle" in November 1999.

 

[jfollows]

On the topic, I've probably used Piccadilly station 2,500+ times in my life whereas Victoria probably 50 times. So I like the novelty of Victoria, but I don't think its recent changes have done it any favours. Even with minor disability because of my stroke which affects my walking I prefer to walk between the two stations, it's not much slower for me than the bus and when there were roadworks in Portland Street a few years ago it was much quicker even for me to walk. I guess I just prefer the predictability of the walk and avoid the frustration of waiting for a bus or having it held up in traffic.

 

[BrianW]

On the topic, I've probably used Piccadilly station 2,500+ times in my life whereas Victoria probably 50 times. So I like the novelty of Victoria, but I don't think its recent changes have done it any favours. Even with minor disability because of my stroke which affects my walking I prefer to walk between the two stations, it's not much slower for me than the bus and when there were roadworks in Portland Street a few years ago it was much quicker even for me to walk. I guess I just prefer the predictability of the walk and avoid the frustration of waiting for a bus or having it held up in traffic.

Manchester Piccadilly Station to Manchester Victoria - 3 ways to travel

The cheapest way to get from Manchester Piccadilly Station to Manchester Victoria costs only £2, and the quickest way takes just 4 mins. Find the travel option that best suits you.

www.rome2rio.com

Nothing via Ordsall Chord??

 

[Sparrowman]

I wonder how things would have developed between the two stations if the Picc-Vic tunnel had been built?

I imagine that the situation at both stations would have been more equitable, with a greater number of inter-City services terminating at Victoria, therefore driving improvements at the station.

The proposed metro-tunnel is likely to go underground prior to Piccadilly and emerge past Cornbrook, however I would hope that if this is eventually built, there is some consideration of having a spur at Piccadilly that connects at Victoria, Salford Central and Salford Crescent.

Realistically a fantasy, outside of London, but one can dream!

 

[Ianno87]

I wonder how things would have developed between the two stations if the Picc-Vic tunnel had been built?

I imagine that the situation at both stations would have been more equitable, with a greater number of inter-City services terminating at Victoria, therefore driving improvements at the station.

The proposed metro-tunnel is likely to go underground prior to Piccadilly and emerge past Cornbrook, however I would hope that if this is eventually built, there is some consideration of having a spur at Piccadilly that connects at Victoria, Salford Central and Salford Crescent.

Realistically a fantasy, outside of London, but one can dream!

I recently read the SelNec Transport Study from 1973. It is interesting reading. If PiccVic were to be built, it proposed removal of PTE subsidy from the lines it duplicated, such as the current day Bolton line.

Together with electrification of Manchester-Newton-le-Willows to permit rerouting of Blackpool and Scotland services, the present day Bolton corridor would have had a very skeleton service indeed left.

PiccVic wasn’t all good news.

 

[Revaulx]

I recently read the SelNec Transport Study from 1973. It is interesting reading. If PiccVic were to be built, it proposed removal of PTE subsidy from the lines it duplicated, such as the current day Bolton line.

Together with electrification of Manchester-Newton-le-Willows to permit rerouting of Blackpool and Scotland services, the present day Bolton corridor would have had a very skeleton service indeed left.

PiccVic wasn’t all good news.

At the time, I rather got the impression that BR wasn't terribly enthusiastic about Picc-Vic. It also seemed odd that it was ostensibly canned due to lack of cash, yet the contemporary "metro" schemes in Liverpool and Newcastle went ahead.

The obvious difference was that the both of the latter effectively removed nasty suburban services from the "proper" railway, whereas Picc-Vic would have increased them on the main line out of Piccadilly.

It's a shame that it wasn't cancelled after grade separation at Slade Lane had already got under way though...

 

[Ken H]

At the time, I rather got the impression that BR wasn't terribly enthusiastic about Picc-Vic. It also seemed odd that it was ostensibly canned due to lack of cash, yet the contemporary "metro" schemes in Liverpool and Newcastle went ahead.

The obvious difference was that the both of the latter effectively removed nasty suburban services from the "proper" railway, whereas Picc-Vic would have increased them on the main line out of Piccadilly.

It's a shame that it wasn't cancelled after grade separation at Slade Lane had already got under way though...

didnt picc-vic have a flyover at slade lane as part of the project?

 

[Revaulx]

didnt picc-vic have a flyover at slade lane as part of the project?

It did. In fact, the flyover proposal might even have pre-dated it. I remember a rather nice model on display on the concourse at Piccadilly.

 

[Senex]

didnt picc-vic have a flyover at slade lane as part of the project?

And one at Edgeley too.

 

[Ken H]

It did. In fact, the flyover proposal might even have pre-dated it. I remember a rather nice model on display on the concourse at Piccadilly.

would be a good project now IMHO

 

[Revaulx]

would be a good project now IMHO

It should have been done at the same time as the Airport spur

 

[Purple Orange]

I wonder how things would have developed between the two stations if the Picc-Vic tunnel had been built?

I imagine that the situation at both stations would have been more equitable, with a greater number of inter-City services terminating at Victoria, therefore driving improvements at the station.

The proposed metro-tunnel is likely to go underground prior to Piccadilly and emerge past Cornbrook, however I would hope that if this is eventually built, there is some consideration of having a spur at Piccadilly that connects at Victoria, Salford Central and Salford Crescent.

Realistically a fantasy, outside of London, but one can dream!

I suspect if the Piccadilly-Cornbrook tunnel goes ahead it will have Glossop and Rose Hill in the east with 10 tph, but where should the western terminus be? Personally I think it should connect to the CLC to Warrington and the Altrincham line running metro trains, with the Warrington line running like the Tyne & Wear metro with a mix of heavy rail and metro services. The Altrincham line running in a similar fashion with metro trains running in to the tunnel at Cornbrook and tram-trains running on to the existing Metrolink lines through the city centre towards Bury.

The network should run with:

• Warrington Line: 5 tph Metro & 1 tph heavy rail (like Tyne & Wear Metro)
• Altrincham Line: 5 tph Metro & 5 tph Tram-Trains
• Glossop & Hadfield: 5 tph Metro
• Rose Hill: 5 tph Metro

In the centre, the line should have underground stations at Cornbrook, Water Street (for Castlefield & St. Johns), Spinningfields, St Peter’s Square, Piccadilly Station and East Piccadilly, before resurfacing in Ardwick.

PS, the shared track on the T&W Metro is 8.1 miles, with no shared stops. The Warrington-Cornbrook shared track would be 14.3 miles, but to break that up there could be heavy rail stops at Birchwood & Urmston.

 

[Sweetjesus]

Going back to the topic, I prefer Piccadilly far more to Victoria for three reasons:

1. Majority of the platforms are on the level, i.e. you don't need to walk up and down unlike Victoria where it's closer to 50/50 split on whether you need to use the stairs or not.
2. Routes out of the Picc is a lot more useful to me than the ones out of the Vic.
3. It's more conveniently located for interchange with buses - majority of buses are in Piccadilly Gardens rather than Shudehill. I always need to make onward journey after the Picc and buses are often the only means of the transport method getting me to the places I want to go.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The Cardiff ones too? How much extra does going from Crewe, squeezing through Winsford, upto Warrington, then across take?


Currently it's about 35 minutes from Picadilly to Crewe. From Victoria to Bank Quay is about 30 minutes, then another 20 even if the paths could be made work.

I think the North Wales Coast services could go to Victoria, but not from Cardiff. Whilst in theory it would only be another 20 minutes or so, you have to remember that it's already about 3 and a half hours from Cardiff to Manchester so if they're diverted to Victoria it's even longer. I remember during engineering works once that services diverted via Warrington and Eccles and terminated at Oxford Road, and the increased albeit not by much journey time was noticeable.

Furthermore, many people change at Piccadilly for Blackpool/the Lakes, so diverting TfW services to Victoria would lose that. Think it would only work if you were going across the Pennines towards Yorkshire, but even then anyone from the South going to Yorkshire would just use CrossCountry (poor them!!).

Personally, I prefer Piccadilly, purely because it's what I'm used to and I like the fact there are plenty of outlets to get food and drink from. Victoria only has that Java or a franchise Starbucks where drinks are almost £1 more than at equity owned Starbucks!

 

[Purple Orange]

Can anyone confirm if the Victoria Tap has opened yet?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the North Wales Coast services could go to Victoria, but not from Cardiff. Whilst in theory it would only be another 20 minutes or so, you have to remember that it's already about 3 and a half hours from Cardiff to Manchester so if they're diverted to Victoria it's even longer. I remember during engineering works once that services diverted via Warrington and Eccles and terminated at Oxford Road, and the increased albeit not by much journey time was noticeable.

Piccadilly trainshed is nowhere near as pressured as Castlefield, so unless it'd provide for better connections (which it wouldn't really) there is no need to send non-Castlefield services to Victoria.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Personally, I prefer Piccadilly, purely because it's what I'm used to and I like the fact there are plenty of outlets to get food and drink from. Victoria only has that Java or a franchise Starbucks where drinks are almost £1 more than at equity owned Starbucks!

Victoria has a Greggs which does good soup and sausage rolls.
But Piccadilly has the lot (retail-wise).
Oxford Road cafe is shabby now, the premises are far too cramped for the station usage.

 

[Efini92]

I recently read the SelNec Transport Study from 1973. It is interesting reading. If PiccVic were to be built, it proposed removal of PTE subsidy from the lines it duplicated, such as the current day Bolton line.

Together with electrification of Manchester-Newton-le-Willows to permit rerouting of Blackpool and Scotland services, the present day Bolton corridor would have had a very skeleton service indeed left.

PiccVic wasn’t all good news.

But if the picvic had gone ahead the windosor link wouldn’t have been built so all the services would still have gone from Victoria.
The pre ‘93 Victoria would have been the better station for intercity services.

 

[Purple Orange]

But if the picvic had gone ahead the windosor link wouldn’t have been built so all the services would still have gone from Victoria.
The pre ‘93 Victoria would have been the better station for intercity services.

An upgraded and refurbushed pre-93 Victoria would be better. What existed then was still a shambles.

Sorry to press the question, but does anyone know if the Vic Tap is actually open? Im hoping to get a pint in there later today!

 

[175001]

Vic Tap nowhere near completion yet.

Beer House has reopened but I recommend that you give it a miss...

 

[Efini92]

An upgraded and refurbushed pre-93 Victoria would be better. What existed then was still a shambles.

Sorry to press the question, but does anyone know if the Vic Tap is actually open? Im hoping to get a pint in there later today!

Agreed. Sadly the 80’s really ran it down.
Im not sure about the vic tap, the old staff club was in need of a lot of work. It got decimated when a new fire system was installed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Vic Tap nowhere near completion yet.

Beer House has reopened but I recommend that you give it a miss...

Used to be good in the 90s - shame it's less so now.

 

[YorkshireBear]

An upgraded and refurbushed pre-93 Victoria would be better. What existed then was still a shambles.

Sorry to press the question, but does anyone know if the Vic Tap is actually open? Im hoping to get a pint in there later today!

Plenty of pubs within walking distance though?

 

[Purple Orange]

Yeah plenty in walking distance. Although a good selection while at the station wouldnt be bad.

 

[Revaulx]

Yeah plenty in walking distance. Although a good selection while at the station wouldnt be bad.

The wooden hut pub in Hanover Street (just across Corporation Street) that used to be The Pilcrow has reopened as a Cloudwater Brewery tied house called The Sadler’s Cat. I went there at the weekend and it seemed decent, though my judgement was impaired from having had several pints beforehand at Stalybridge Station Buffet…

 

[Purple Orange]

The wooden hut pub in Hanover Street (just across Corporation Street) that used to be The Pilcrow has reopened as a Cloudwater Brewery tied house called The Sadler’s Cat. I went there at the weekend and it seemed decent, though my judgement was impaired from having had several pints beforehand at Stalybridge Station Buffet…

Yes that too is good. Worth a visit.