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Marston Vale line suspension over - FULL services start running 19/02/24

DarloRich

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Iain Stewart, the Tory MP for Milton Keynes South and chair of the Transport committee, has written to minister of state for rail Hew Merrian about the suspension of service on the Marston Vale line which runs in his constituency. A link to the letter is below. It has a few inaccuracies that i will leave you to debate particularly around the life of the class 230, engines and staff competency on class 150 & 153 trains.

It fairly poor for someone who is chair of the transport select committee frankly and i wonder what has taken him so long to rouse himself to comment on what is a subject that is causing quite a few ructions locally! He misses the main point which is his colleagues at DfT & the treasury are the ones who will have to OK any changes.

https://www.iainstewart.org.uk/news...spension-iain-stewart-mp-writes-rail-minister

On Friday 13 January, Iain Stewart MP met with the Marston Vale Community Rail Partnership (MVCRP), the Chair of Bedford – Bletchley Rail Users’ Association (BBRUA) as well as Councillors from Woburn Sands Town Council regarding the current suspension of the Marston Vale Line between Bletchley and Bedford.

As you may be aware, the main cause of the suspension of the Marston Vale Line is due to the line not having the required team to maintain and service the rolling stock due to the administration of Vivarail.

Whilst Iain is fully aware of the impact the service suspension is having on residents who use the line for education, employment and leisure reasons, he had the opportunity to further discuss the issues, hear of local concerns and learn of the knock-on impact the suspension is having.

Letter here: https://www.iainstewart.org.uk/sites/www.iainstewart.org.uk/files/2023-01/Huw Merriman MP - Marston Vale Line Suspension Letter.pdf

PS if anyone can post the letter i would be grateful!
 
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A0wen

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Iain Stewart, the Tory MP for Milton Keynes South and chair of the Transport committee, has written to minister of state for rail Hew Merrian about the suspension of service on the Marston Vale line which runs in his constituency. A link to the letter is below. It has a few inaccuracies that i will leave you to debate particularly around the life of the class 230, engines and staff competency on class 150 & 153 trains.

It fairly poor for someone who is chair of the transport select committee frankly and i wonder what has taken him so long to rouse himself to comment on what is a subject that is causing quite a few ructions locally! He misses the main point which is his colleagues at DfT & the treasury are the ones who will have to OK any changes.

https://www.iainstewart.org.uk/news...spension-iain-stewart-mp-writes-rail-minister



Letter here: https://www.iainstewart.org.uk/sites/www.iainstewart.org.uk/files/2023-01/Huw Merriman MP - Marston Vale Line Suspension Letter.pdf

PS if anyone can post the letter i would be grateful!

"It fairly poor for someone who is chair of the transport select committee"

I don't think that's fair - the chair of a committee doesn't need to have specialised subject matter knowledge. The role of a chairman of any committee is to lead and facilitate the work if the committee, not to have the answers.
 

Egg Centric

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PS if anyone can post the letter i would be grateful!

I ran this through some OCR for you rather than manually typing it so it may not be entirely accurate...

Dear Huw,

Firstly, I want to thank you for your time in the last week to discuss the current suspension of the Marston
Vale Line between Bletchley and Bedford and for your letter of 21 December. As I am sure you are aware,
this route is important to many of my constituents who use it for education, employment and leisure reasons,
and so I am keen to see the situation resolved as soon as possible.

On Friday 13 January, I had the opportunity to meet with the Marston Vale Community Rail Partnership
(MVCRP), the Chair of Bedford — Bletchley Rail Users’ Association (BBRUA) as well as Councillors from Woburn
Sands Town Council to update them on the current situation, to learn of the knock-on impacts the suspension
is causing and to hear their concerns. I want to take this opportunity to raise with you some of the points
that were discussed.

As you know, the main cause of the suspension of the Marston Vale Line is not having the team to maintain
and service the rolling stock due to the administration of Vivarail. However, as I understand it, some of the
engineers that worked on the Marston Vale Line rolling stock were contractors through an agency and not
directly employed by Vivarail. Whilst I am sure some of them will have sought alternative employment, Iam
certain there are some still job-searching. To that end, I wondered if there is a possibility for them to be re-
hired directly by London Northwestern Railway (LNWR) or Network Rail? By having some of these engineers
employed, the line should be able to function in some capacity because they would be on hand to ensure
sufficient maintenance of the trains, satisfying the necessary safety regulations needed to operate.

Also, I am slightly concerned about the true status of the engines in the trains that were running on the
Marston Vale Line. It has been suggested by the Department for Transport that the engines of the Class 230s
were reaching a point where a major overhaul would be required. However, I have also heard that the 230s
have got a considerable amount of mileage still left in them before they reach the need for an overhaul
because they are relatively new and were not used as extensively during the Coronavirus pandemic. Could I
ask for this point to be investigated further by the Department for Transport?

Unfortunately, at this current point in time, the only way that I can see a quick reintroduction of a service
along the Marston Vale Line is to use the Vivarail trains. To introduce another type of rolling stock will require
the traincrew to have to undertake a lengthy training period, unnecessarily delaying the reintroduction of a
train service.

If replacement stock is, however, to be required, I understand that using Class 150s or 153s would reduce
the time requirement for training up drivers as they were used on the Marston Vale line pre-2019 and
therefore some train crew will have existing knowledge of them. I further understand that the Class 153s
may have some toilet access issues but is there a way to overcome this for a short interim period?

Finally, I would like to highlight the unsuitability of the rail replacement bus service in terms of the extended
journey times and unreliability they pose, amongst other issues. An increasing number of complaints from
passengers are being received by MVCRP and BBRUA, which are being compiled and sent to LNWR for
investigation. I would be happy to share these with you if it is helpful.

My hope is that this letter will reach you prior to the Select Committee hearing on Wednesday 18 January
that you will be attending because it is my hope, that if the opportunity arises, I will put some questions to
you about the Marston Vale Line.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours ever,

lain Stewart MP
Member of Parliament for Milton Keynes South
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Iain Stewart, the Tory MP for Milton Keynes South and chair of the Transport committee, has written to minister of state for rail Hew Merrian about the suspension of service on the Marston Vale line which runs in his constituency. A link to the letter is below. It has a few inaccuracies that i will leave you to debate particularly around the life of the class 230, engines and staff competency on class 150 & 153 trains.

It fairly poor for someone who is chair of the transport select committee frankly and i wonder what has taken him so long to rouse himself to comment on what is a subject that is causing quite a few ructions locally! He misses the main point which is his colleagues at DfT & the treasury are the ones who will have to OK any changes.

https://www.iainstewart.org.uk/news...spension-iain-stewart-mp-writes-rail-minister



Letter here: https://www.iainstewart.org.uk/sites/www.iainstewart.org.uk/files/2023-01/Huw Merriman MP - Marston Vale Line Suspension Letter.pdf

PS if anyone can post the letter i would be grateful!
At least he's attempting to get the issue aired. Reality is there is stock available if there is a will to reinstate the service but we know WMT have never been that interested in the route and probably see as an easy way to find something towards the 10% challenge.
 

Bletchleyite

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Ta.

I don't think it's just engines, is it, it's the whole maintenance package? But I'm sure DfT is glad of the money saved, so I'm still of the view it'll be buses until EWR starts up, then the EWR TOC (whoever that ends up being) is likely to take it over with whatever they use.

At least he's attempting to get the issue aired. Reality is there is stock available if there is a will to reinstate the service but we know WMT have never been that interested in the route and probably see as an easy way to find something towards the 10% challenge.

It's hard to call them not interested in it with all the 230 stuff, it's probably had more attention than half the West Midlands.

However, I would be totally with the idea that the reason for not sorting out a reinstatement is that it is a money saving without impacting services on WMT that most people use. Plus it'd make it easier to do the 5 station EWR proposal, not just practically but also because people have got used to not having it, so getting anything back is good.
 

DarloRich

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I don't think that's fair - the chair of a committee doesn't need to have specialised subject matter knowledge. The role of a chairman of any committee is to lead and facilitate the work if the committee, not to have the answers.
I am never knowingly fair to a Tory so I don't agree. As chair of the transport select committee he MUST have facilitated loads of discussions in recent times about train crew availability, competence rules, regulations, rolling stock availability and costs.

I suspect he knows that his ideas are only an answer IF his chums at DfT and/or Treasury approve the extra spend to facilitate a service. I further suspect he knows that they wont! Then again I am a cynic. In the meantime us poor mugs trying to get to work or school have to use the bus he rightly points out isn't a very good service if it even shows up.

At least he's attempting to get the issue aired. Reality is there is stock available if there is a will to reinstate the service but we know WMT have never been that interested in the route and probably see as an easy way to find something towards the 10% challenge.

Agreed - I just want to see more done beyond words and PR guff. He should be using his clout to get people in a room and sort out a solution. This is a constituency matter and one that can get him some positive press quite easily: Campaigning local MP saves local rail service.

( nice picture of smiling MP on said service, decent quote from plebs about how great MP is, guff about EW rail, lies about how Tories like normal people, blame labour run MK council and RMT scum for service failure. Bosh. Job done. An easy full page article in the local press sealed. Might even get the front page and headline on a slow day!)

TBH if he can at least get a flow of information going that would be an improvement as we have heard nowt from LNWR about plans to reinstate the service.


However, I would be totally with the idea that the reason for not sorting out a reinstatement is that it is a money saving without impacting services on WMT that most people use. Plus it'd make it easier to do the 5 station EWR proposal, not just practically but also because people have got used to not having it, so getting anything back is good.
That is my big concern. The line must be such a PITA for LNWR that not running it must make their lives ( and punctuality figures) much easier!
 

Bald Rick

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I can’t imagine that any of the WMT drivers who sign the route still sign 15xs. Some would be able to restore competence fairly quickly, but I also expect that conversion to another type of traction would be relatively swift; weeks not months.

The bigger issue will be finding somewhere to maintain the units needed, and training the staff there.
 

Failed Unit

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When you look at 15x, would the 156s fit anyway? Some of these are off-lease now, but appreciate the training / maintenance is an issue. EMR still will have the knowledge (is a trip up the MML worse then sending units to Birmingham like in the past). Also understand EMR may not have the capacity to service anything else.

It does seem the desire isn’t there to sort this.
 

Brush 4

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Where were they maintained before? Is Bletchley depot still open or usable?
 

A0wen

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I am never knowingly fair to a Tory so I don't agree. As chair of the transport select committee he MUST have facilitated loads of discussions in recent times about train crew availability, competence rules, regulations, rolling stock availability and costs.

I suspect he knows that his ideas are only an answer IF his chums at DfT and/or Treasury approve the extra spend to facilitate a service. I further suspect he knows that they wont! Then again I am a cynic. In the meantime us poor mugs trying to get to work or school have to use the bus he rightly points out isn't a very good service if it even shows up.

You're missing the distinction between "operational" responsibility and "governance" responsibilities.

The chair of a select committee be it transport, health, education, environment or anything else is *firmly* in the latter - so it's not about technical knowledge, quite the opposite.
 

DarloRich

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The bigger issue will be finding somewhere to maintain the units needed, and training the staff there.
Would they not just use Bletchley depot? I assumed ( perhaps wrongly) that Vivarail had leased some or all of the deport for thier purposes and assumed the lease would be transferable to any new operation or would revert to LNWR in the event they took operations "in house"
It does seem the desire isn’t there to sort this.
Perhaps. Also money and the lack thereof is a big issue. Also unsure if the 156 would fit in all the platforms on the line but having to use one door on a train is better than a bus that might not show up!

Anyway, I am holding out for a couple of heritage diesel and coaches ;)
Where were they maintained before? Is Bletchley depot still open or usable?
The 230's were maintained at Bletchley by Vivarail staff.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Would they not just use Bletchley depot? I assumed ( perhaps wrongly) that Vivarail had leased some or all of the deport for thier purposes and assumed the lease would be transferable to any new operation or would revert to LNWR in the event they took operations "in house"

Perhaps. Also money and the lack thereof is a big issue. Also unsure if the 156 would fit in all the platforms on the line but having to use one door on a train is better than a bus that might not show up!

Anyway, I am holding out for a couple of heritage diesel and coaches ;)

The 230's were maintained at Bletchley by Vivarail staff.
Was it used before 230s? I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that it was purpose built for them.
 

DarloRich

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Was it used before 230s? I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that it was purpose built for them
Yes it has been there for years. Fully electrified and home to pre LNWR units until they went over to class 350's and the new siemens depot at Northampton.

Before that it was also the base for BR era diesel and electric units that worked the WCML and other local services. I also think they maintained the diesel units that ran into Marylebone.

Once the Siemens depot opened the depot at Bletchley was "mothballed" for a period of time.
 

Bletchleyite

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With regard to platform lengths, level crossings and signals see this thread where I checked which ones were an issue, and it appears to me that, provided the units have SDO or local door can be used, there is only one platform/signal combination which is a genuinely difficult issue for 2x23/24m - Kempston Hardwick towards Bletchley.

Re units 153 are cleared, 156 look like they might be, 158 are explicitly not, 172 require stepboards removed (so I guess a couple of platform changes to use them), 196 cleared throughout except Bedford P1A which I'm sure will be done in due course.

In short it's nowhere near as bad as is often said.

 

Bald Rick

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Would they not just use Bletchley depot? I assumed ( perhaps wrongly) that Vivarail had leased some or all of the deport for thier purposes and assumed the lease would be transferable to any new operation or would revert to LNWR in the event they took operations "in house"

Almost certainly, but depending on what units were deployed, it may need reconfiguring - at least in terms of tooling etc.
 

DarloRich

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The chair of a select committee be it transport, health, education, environment or anything else is *firmly* in the latter - so it's not about technical knowledge, quite the opposite.
I don't disagree - I don't expect detailed technical knowledge. However as chair he must have picked up SOME knowledge on crew competency rules from recent discussions before his committee.
 

Bletchleyite

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Would they not just use Bletchley depot? I assumed ( perhaps wrongly) that Vivarail had leased some or all of the deport for thier purposes and assumed the lease would be transferable to any new operation or would revert to LNWR in the event they took operations "in house"

Pre 230s Bletchley TMD (as opposed to Bletchley CS - carriage sidings) wasn't in use since EMU maintenance moved to Northampton. The 153 and 150 came from Tyseley and were swapped if they broke or once a week on a Sunday when not in service. While that did cause some problems (if one failed a diagram would be lost for 4-6 hours) it could be done again with e.g. 172s.
 
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Iain Stewart, the Tory MP for Milton Keynes South and chair of the Transport committee, has written to minister of state for rail Hew Merrian about the suspension of service on the Marston Vale line which runs in his constituency. A link to the letter is below. It has a few inaccuracies that i will leave you to debate particularly around the life of the class 230, engines and staff competency on class 150 & 153 trains.

It fairly poor for someone who is chair of the transport select committee frankly and i wonder what has taken him so long to rouse himself to comment on what is a subject that is causing quite a few ructions locally! He misses the main point which is his colleagues at DfT & the treasury are the ones who will have to OK any changes.

https://www.iainstewart.org.uk/news...spension-iain-stewart-mp-writes-rail-minister



Letter here: https://www.iainstewart.org.uk/sites/www.iainstewart.org.uk/files/2023-01/Huw Merriman MP - Marston Vale Line Suspension Letter.pdf

PS if anyone can post the letter i would be grateful!
 

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White Ant

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With regard to platform lengths, level crossings and signals see this thread where I checked which ones were an issue, and it appears to me that, provided the units have SDO or local door can be used, there is only one platform/signal combination which is a genuinely difficult issue for 2x23/24m - Kempston Hardwick towards Bletchley.

Re units 153 are cleared, 156 look like they might be, 158 are explicitly not, 172 require stepboards removed (so I guess a couple of platform changes to use them), 196 cleared throughout except Bedford P1A which I'm sure will be done in due course.

In short it's nowhere near as bad as is often said.

You have done an excellent job there, and one wonders why the relevant authorities couldn't have done similar - and at least have a plan in place for one of these alternatives by now. In the longer term the issue at Kempston Hardwick could easily be removed if the station closes due to the proposed Wixams station being opened nearby on the Midland Mainline.
 

zwk500

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With regard to platform lengths, level crossings and signals see this thread where I checked which ones were an issue, and it appears to me that, provided the units have SDO or local door can be used, there is only one platform/signal combination which is a genuinely difficult issue for 2x23/24m - Kempston Hardwick towards Bletchley.

Re units 153 are cleared, 156 look like they might be, 158 are explicitly not, 172 require stepboards removed (so I guess a couple of platform changes to use them), 196 cleared throughout except Bedford P1A which I'm sure will be done in due course.

In short it's nowhere near as bad as is often said.
As Kempston Hardwick's Up platform is beyond the level crossing, even this could be got around by drawing forward if local door release is used. However there's also quite a bit of length to the signal where a relatively simple scaffolding platform extension could be put in as a temporary measure.
 

12LDA28C

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Yes it has been there for years. Fully electrified and home to pre LNWR units until they went over to class 350's and the new siemens depot at Northampton.

Before that it was also the base for BR era diesel and electric units that worked the WCML and other local services. I also think they maintained the diesel units that ran into Marylebone.

Once the Siemens depot opened the depot at Bletchley was "mothballed" for a period of time.

Bletchley Depot still sees occasional use for LNWR EMUs, (or at least certainly did last time I was there 3 years ago when the 230s were still on test) with units in there for storage and other use as required.

Bletchley carried out alot of the heavier maintenance on the Class 115 DMUs that ran on the Chilterns and unit swaps were often undertaken between Aylesbury and Bletchley via Claydon.
 

Bletchleyite

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There are two depots - Bletchley CS (carriage sidings) which are parallel to the mainline and Bletchley TMD (traction maintenance depot) which is at about 90 degrees to it towards Fenny. The former is still very much going and used for unit cleaning etc, the latter hasn't, 230s aside, been in full use since Northampton opened but may be used incidentally for stabling (e.g. there seem to be 730s sat there quite often).
 

12LDA28C

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There are two depots - Bletchley CS (carriage sidings) which are parallel to the mainline and Bletchley TMD (traction maintenance depot) which is at about 90 degrees to it towards Fenny. The former is still very much going and used for unit cleaning etc, the latter hasn't, 230s aside, been in full use since Northampton opened but may be used incidentally for stabling (e.g. there seem to be 730s sat there quite often).

I wouldn't call sidings a Depot, a (maintenance) Depot generally implies a building used for maintenance and repair.

Similarly at Aylesbury, the Depot is north of the station and the south sidings (not a Depot) is, unsurprisingly, south of the station.
 

A0wen

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You have done an excellent job there, and one wonders why the relevant authorities couldn't have done similar - and at least have a plan in place for one of these alternatives by now. In the longer term the issue at Kempston Hardwick could easily be removed if the station closes due to the proposed Wixams station being opened nearby on the Midland Mainline.

Bit in bold - and your evidence they haven't is......... ?

Such contractual discussions don't take place in public for a very good reason - usually because they are commercially sensitive. For all you know, this has already been done and discussions are underway - suggesting a crayonista on a web board has come up with something the industry hasn't is pretty laughable.
 

The Ham

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I can’t imagine that any of the WMT drivers who sign the route still sign 15xs. Some would be able to restore competence fairly quickly, but I also expect that conversion to another type of traction would be relatively swift; weeks not months.

The bigger issue will be finding somewhere to maintain the units needed, and training the staff there.

It's certainly a good example of why there should be a rolling program of removing diesel islands by electrification, even if the service frequency is lower than would normally be expected to justify electrification.

It also further highlights the shortsightedness of not electrifying EWR (not that it would have solved this issue).
 

Bletchleyite

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It's certainly a good example of why there should be a rolling program of removing diesel islands by electrification, even if the service frequency is lower than would normally be expected to justify electrification.

It also further highlights the shortsightedness of not electrifying EWR (not that it would have solved this issue).

There's a well established DMU operating TOC at one end of EWR, and if the Aylesbury bit was built there'd be two. So while I do think it's nuts it wasn't wired from day one, it wasn't a diesel island per-se. OTOH it is at the moment.
 

zwk500

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It's certainly a good example of why there should be a rolling program of removing diesel islands by electrification, even if the service frequency is lower than would normally be expected to justify electrification.
Possibly, but the costs on the MV would be high as it would need a full resignalling for 4x23 car operation, stations rebuilt and level crossings reassesed/removed
It also further highlights the shortsightedness of not electrifying EWR (not that it would have solved this issue).
Not really, if EWR was in operation with diesel units then Bletchley depot would have a much higher base level diesel service and the penny-pinching solution wouldn't have been needed in the first place.

Once EWR makes a decision about which option it's taking on the MV, then plans for electrification should be developed alongside, but EWR isn't worth electrifying until Oxford is also wired, and possibly needs the HS2 feeder station in place as well.
 

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