Marston Vale line suspension over - FULL services start running 19/02/24

[Baxenden Bank]

Apparently there is disruption Bedford - Bletchley today:

Buses replace trains due to short notice changes to our timetable​

We're experiencing some short-term operational issues, which means that buses will replace some or all trains.

Taken from the landing page of their website, just right now.

There is other information elsewhere but your Martian train enthusiast may think this is a short term problem.

These are an extract of their communications. Does it really require 24 drivers to provide 4 round trips per day, five days per week? Two of which (in the afternoon) could be the same driver? 24 drivers for 20 turns per week (each of max two hours duration). Even at the most lax it requires two drivers in the morning, two different drivers in the afternoon, each working Monday to Friday. Even at 100% spare cover that's only eight drivers.

Previous update: Tuesday 15 August 2023
We estimate it will take up to three weeks to train each driver on the fleet and we require 24 drivers to be trained in order to have enough on roster to resume a partial service.

Previous update: Friday 5 May 2023
Following a review of rosters, we have established that 24 train drivers will need to be trained on the Class 150 in order to commence the service in the autumn.

 

[DarloRich]

Your view seems to be nothing should run until a full service (or more specifically, ones that suit you) can be launched. That comes across as very narrow minded.

that is not my view - far from it! Most trains can come MUCH later. I simply, perhaps quite bluntly, ask why we cant have a service allowing a passenger to get to MKC before 0900 or Euston before 1000,

they can't instantly train all the crews so a phased return is the best that can be done.

i don't dispute that! I simply wonder why we cant offer a slightly better service with the available resources .

 

[Bletchleyite]

that is not my view - far from it! Most trains can come MUCH later. I simply, perhaps quite bluntly, ask why we cant have a service allowing a passenger to get to MKC before 0900 or Euston before 1000

There is to be fair one that would allow commuters to get to London via Thameslink at a sensible time - won't this be more use to most people?

 

[Silverlinky]

Apparently there is disruption Bedford - Bletchley today:


Taken from the landing page of their website, just right now.

There is other information elsewhere but your Martian train enthusiast may think this is a short term problem.

These are an extract of their communications. Does it really require 24 drivers to provide 4 round trips per day, five days per week? Two of which (in the afternoon) could be the same driver? 24 drivers for 20 turns per week (each of max two hours duration). Even at the most lax it requires two drivers in the morning, two different drivers in the afternoon, each working Monday to Friday. Even at 100% spare cover that's only eight drivers.

Previous update: Tuesday 15 August 2023
We estimate it will take up to three weeks to train each driver on the fleet and we require 24 drivers to be trained in order to have enough on roster to resume a partial service.

Previous update: Friday 5 May 2023
Following a review of rosters, we have established that 24 train drivers will need to be trained on the Class 150 in order to commence the service in the autumn.

The drivers only work a four day week, not five. Those drivers actually have other work to do to like drive services on the mainline. I understand that the drivers are in one link and that is the same link as where the new class 730 traction also sits, so many of these drivers will be being trained on two different tractions in a short time and will have to drive both in the near future alongside the normal 350s and any remaining 319's. We are talking about around 50 drivers here and the diagrams were protected in the roster in readiness for the work to come back. Those drivers might only be rostered one or maybe two Bedford diagrams per week, some of them wont be rostered any, thats the way a roster works.
There will be three diagrams per day initially, two in the morning and one in the afternoon. Assume that each driver will have one day on the branch line each week that means it is possible that fifteen different drivers could drive on there every week, and to add cover for sickness, holidays or time off after an incident for example then you can probably see why in the current set up they need 24 drivers trained.

 

[DarloRich]

There is to be fair one that would allow commuters to get to London via Thameslink at a sensible time - won't this be more use to most people?

OK - do you think anyone from this end of the line is going to make that journey? Does a standard season ticket cover it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

OK - do you think anyone from this end of the line is going to make that journey? Does a standard season ticket cover it?

I don't know about Fenny as most people would probably just walk to Bletchley anyway. But Woburn Sands to London is valid via Bedford*, yes (just tried it on NRE), so by extension so will any station east of that be, and Thameslink will be more convenient for most commuters than Euston.

* There is a route Bletchley season, but as it's the same price as the Any Permitted there's no reason to ever sell it. Indeed that seems to be the case for the whole fare set!

 

[DarloRich]

But Woburn Sands to London is valid via Bedford, yes (just tried it)

fair enough! i don't think mine from Fenny was but i never tested it.

 

[Peter Sarf]

fair enough! i don't think mine from Fenny was but i never tested it.

Surely, in the circumstances it should be allowed.

 

[brick60000]

If we could knock both services from Bletchley back a bit i reckon it could work. Even 15 minutes might be enough.

Although it's a reduced service, diagrams will still need to sit within fixed rostered hours to avoid knocking booked train crew off their rostered turns & then having to find a spare.

Given that it’s the mid morning trains being reinstated in this TT (and by that I mean not early, not late - accept 9am isn’t morning in most people’s world!!), you'll be approaching 4-5 hours into a diagram accounting for book on, preps etc that would be within an LTP diagram. That’s prime time for a PNB being needed.

There will be restrictions as to when a PNB must fall within a diagram. If the parameter falls such that the PNB must start after arrival of the train, retiming by 15 minutes isn’t an option.

Detail like this will more than likely be the reason for constraints to the TT, and it’s far too much for an operator to ever be expected to communicate to the public - they’d simply switch off. Those of us on a rail forum are obviously far more switched on to these things!

 

[87015]

Although it's a reduced service, diagrams will still need to sit within fixed rostered hours to avoid knocking booked train crew off their rostered turns & then having to find a spare.

Given that it’s the mid morning trains being reinstated in this TT (and by that I mean not early, not late - accept 9am isn’t morning in most people’s world!!), you'll be approaching 4-5 hours into a diagram accounting for book on, preps etc that would be within an LTP diagram. That’s prime time for a PNB being needed.

There will be restrictions as to when a PNB must fall within a diagram. If the parameter falls such that the PNB must start after arrival of the train, retiming by 15 minutes isn’t an option.

Detail like this will more than likely be the reason for constraints to the TT, and it’s far too much for an operator to ever be expected to communicate to the public - they’d simply switch off. Those of us on a rail forum are obviously far more switched on to these things!

The full original timetable would still be in LTP diagrams or protected within at least surely, or it would affect the establishment calculator and more.

 

[brick60000]

The full original timetable would still be in LTP diagrams or protected within at least surely, or it would affect the establishment calculator and more.

Yes, it sounds like that is the case from other posts.

It’s the fact it’s in the base roster that means you don’t want to deviate too far from booked to avoid creating crewing issues.

In a similar vein if there’s engineering work - sometimes you’re better having three short diagrams in booked hours than having one long diagram that’s an “additional” for which cover must be found, with the three booked drivers kicked spare off their booked job in favour of the longer turn.

 

[DarloRich]

Although it's a reduced service, diagrams will still need to sit within fixed rostered hours to avoid knocking booked train crew off their rostered turns & then having to find a spare.

Given that it’s the mid morning trains being reinstated in this TT (and by that I mean not early, not late - accept 9am isn’t morning in most people’s world!!), you'll be approaching 4-5 hours into a diagram accounting for book on, preps etc that would be within an LTP diagram. That’s prime time for a PNB being needed.

There will be restrictions as to when a PNB must fall within a diagram. If the parameter falls such that the PNB must start after arrival of the train, retiming by 15 minutes isn’t an option.

Detail like this will more than likely be the reason for constraints to the TT, and it’s far too much for an operator to ever be expected to communicate to the public - they’d simply switch off. Those of us on a rail forum are obviously far more switched on to these things!

They must be able to explain that in a way that explains WHY earlier services cant run without crushing people. LNWR have a comms team and a PR department surely! I have had a go:

We realise that our introductory timetable is not what our passengers have a right to expect from us and we apologise for this. However, because of the challenges faced in training enough of our drivers on the new trains and our staff operating rules we can only offer this limited service at this time. We are working hard to change this and we will introduce a better service for you as soon as we can. We understand & share your frustrations with the lack of a train service on this line for the past 11 months. We know things have not been good enough and we appreciate your continuing patience while we work hard to improve things for you. As soon as we have news about improved services we will share that with you.

You can find a full statement on this issue, written by our ( Insert name of senior person) here:

( in said statement you can easily set out all of the information about rosters and working times and breaks safe in the knowledge no one except us dull spotters will read it!)


PS 0900 is morning for most people in this country. Most people work a version of a 9-5 job. I KNOW many in the railways don't but real people do!

 

[MML]

Is there a reason why the drivers of the class 150s used on the Marston Vale have to be part of the larger mainline pool of drivers?
I had always imagined incorrectly as it turns out that LNR had a dedicated team who spent all day and every day on the branch line.
Surely if this was the case at least initially then a full service could be restored more quickly given it will take a shorter time to train a dedicated group of 12 or 20 drivers as opposed to a larger pool of 50 or 100 drivers?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Is there a reason why the drivers of the class 150s used on the Marston Vale have to be part of the larger mainline pool of drivers?
I had always imagined incorrectly as it turns out that LNR had a dedicated team who spent all day and every day on the branch line.
Surely if this was the case at least initially then a full service could be restored more quickly given it will take a shorter time to train a dedicated group of 12 or 20 drivers as opposed to a larger pool of 50 or 100 drivers?

Flexibility to meet the needs of the customer doesn't seem to be a priority.

By customer I mean passengers not the DfT.

 

[Silverlinky]

Flexibility is having all the drivers sign the mainline and some who sign other lines as well. Not much flexibility in having a group of drivers who only sign a branch line. The large pool is around 180 at Bletchley, all who will sign Euston to Northampton. Then some of those will go as far as Rugby, some will go as far as Birmingham, some will go on the St Albans Abbey Branch, some will go to Bedford. Very few if any will do it all.
The Marston Vale work sits in one of the bigger links of around 50 drivers out of that 180. Eventually all those 50 may be trained although if someone leaves and someone new moves into the link they need training so there probably isn't ever a time when all will sign both the traction and route.
I think only around 15 will be trained before the initial service comes in, and 30 before the introduction of a full service. Once the full service is in it is in fact easier to train others as trains are actually running on a daily basis.

This is only the drivers side, conductors will have their own arrangements and link structure, and then on top of that managers and assessors will also need to gain competence.

150139 headed to Tyseley today as 5Z50 to get its wheels sorted. 150141 has been repaired at Bletchley. 150137 was out on training runs today.

 

[richieb1971]

I saw this on social media today. I love it. Should be the new livery.

 

[al green]

I saw this on social media today. I love it. Should be the new livery.

I was on one of the new units yesterday. Thankfully that isn't the new livery!
Nicely done inside and out but you can't disguise the fact that its a 38 year old train.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I saw this on social media today. I love it. Should be the new livery.

Is that Photoshopped?

 

[richieb1971]

Is that Photoshopped?

I suspect so. Since the windows are also filled in.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I suspect so. Since the windows are also filled in.

That was my thinking!

 

[fgwrich]

Is that Photoshopped?

I suspect so. Since the windows are also filled in.

It isn’t photoshopped and those windows are not filled in. It was a recent graffiti incident done to one of Northern’s 150/1s, so no real relevance to LNWR.

 

[InkyScrolls]

It isn’t photoshopped and those windows are not filled in. It was a recent graffiti incident done to one of Northern’s 150/1s, so no real relevance to LNWR.

Impressive graffiti - if only they could turn their minds to something worth doing.

 

[43096]

Impressive graffiti

That’s an oxymoron if ever there was one.

 

[Anonymous10]

Impressive graffiti - if only they could turn their minds to something worth doing.

Such as commissioned work but that's off topic.

 

[twpsaesneg]

BBC now reporting on the resumption of services "later in November" https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-involved-class-150s-to-return.242143/page-28

Trains will resume on a route that has been suspended for 11 months after a maintenance firm went bust.The Marston Vale Line, which has 12 stations between Bedford and Bletchley, has been out of action since December.Buses have replaced trains after the maintenance provider, Vivarail, went into administration.
It will be a partial service at morning and afternoon peak times during the week - with a full timetable back in early 2024.

IMAGE SOURCE,LONDON NORTHWESTERN RAILWAY
Image caption: The train feature CCTV and space for bicycles

The Class 150 diesel trains serving the route will be two carriages in length because of the stations' short platforms.
From September the trains were tested on the unused line.
Andrew McGill, from operator London Northwestern Railway, said he was confident they will provide enough capacity for the footfall they will expect on the line.
He said the 30-year-old trains "are really reliable.. and we hope passengers will be really pleased to see a service back on the line".
"We totally understand and appreciate the frustration of our passengers who have not had a railway service for nearly 12 months now and it's something we have worked incredibly hard on and we are really pleased to be able to reintroduce the service," he added.

Image caption: The new trains feature a universally accessible toilet and USB charging points throughout the carriages

Stephen Sleight from the Marston Vale Community Rail Partnership explained that the service "means an enormous amount to local people along the line".
He said: "Whilst it is not a full timetable it is a good start and a step in the right direction with students able to get to college and also people will be able to get to work."
The service is expected to be back up and running later this month.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

far from it! Unlike many ( even here) I WANT the line to do well - I have succeeded in getting people onto the trains. We had a chug club at work and had 12 members at one point just before COVID. When I started I was the only one using the train in the office. I am the only one of the 12 even considering going back to the train. Also I have spent my time picking up litter at the station so it is nice environment for users and I have supported and defended the operator when attacked.

but, yeah, very axey.


I don't think they would want me or pay me enough & I don't have any such knowledge. The point is LNWR wont, ever, explain WHY they have taken decisions. I (and others) wouldn't be so angry if there was transparency in their communications. If 2 service pairs are the limit with the trained staff available and why the two appointed service pairs were chosen then explain why in detail. Also let us know when we might get a better service. Not a season. A date.

BTW - We don't even have a date for this very limited service!


Is it outrageous to expect, after the best part of a year with no service, to expect a peak hours service? If so can you explain why? Is your view that the lack of such a service, without explanation, is acceptable?

I don’t think the OP is criticising your outrage, perhaps merely objecting to the fact that this thread to discuss the whole 230 sham/bringing in 150s situation has rather recently become The DarloRich Show Not that I’m complaining, I quite like hearing the take on it from those that actually live on the line and have to use it.

BBC now reporting on the resumption of services "later in November" https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-involved-class-150s-to-return.242143/page-28

It may seem a step back from the 230s, but at least it’s a proper train and not a recycled, equally old former Metro unit. Hopefully there will be an incentive to order a more suitable permanent replacement.

That’s an oxymoron if ever there was one.

I thought the exact same myself. Some progressives have the nerve to call it “street art.” It’s vandalism.

 

[Silverlinky]

First passenger service for these will take place on Wednesday 15th November.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It may seem a step back from the 230s, but at least it’s a proper train and not a recycled, equally old former Metro unit. Hopefully there will be an incentive to order a more suitable permanent replacement.

They need to work out what to do with East West Rail first. If the 5-station proposal goes ahead, they'll likely be built with 100m platforms (I think, might be 120) as Winslow has, and in that case they won't need anything dedicated, just whatever is being used to run the rest of EWR. Even if it doesn't it's likely they'll do the extension/signal moving work on the small number of platforms that can't take 2x24m at some point.

That was one of the key reasons for 230s rather than a new build short unit like a 2-car FLIRT - they were only going to be needed for 10-20 years, not the typical full 40-50 year lifespan of a brand new unit.

 

[baz962]

Platform 1A Bedford at 14.40 02/11/23

 

[43066]

Platform 1A Bedford at 14.40 02/11/23
View attachment 145862

The 150 looks smarter (and newer!) than the adjacent 700, to be fair. Have they been repainted or just wrapped?