May 2021 Timetable Change

Harvey10

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Hi,
Just wondering when the new timetable will be available online?

Don't think they’ll be many if any changes at all.
Thanks
 
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Watershed

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Offers, and offer responses, have just been made so once things are processed through we should have an idea. I don't imagine there will be any significant changes.
 

43055

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I think the biggest changes will be on the MML with the introduction of 360s and 30 min Corby service.
 

DPQ

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I wouldn't expect anything concrete from some TOCs until March.

The intervention window (NR jargon) for changes to May21 is this Friday and some TOCs may (will) use this to reduce / increase service as they feel necessary.
 

HST43257

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I think the biggest changes will be on the MML with the introduction of 360s and 30 min Corby service.
Are they doing 2tph straight away? Especially with covid, I thought they might keep it at 1tph with much better capacity.
 

Ianno87

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Are they doing 2tph straight away? Especially with covid, I thought they might keep it at 1tph with much better capacity.

The interaction would be Corby services taking calls out of the longer distance stuff via Leicester; you might need 2tph just to keep the same frequency at Wellingborough and Kettering, if some of those stops are taken out of the Nottingham etc services.
 

HST43257

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The interaction would be Corby services taking calls out of the longer distance stuff via Leicester; you might need 2tph just to keep the same frequency at Wellingborough and Kettering, if some of those stops are taken out of the Nottingham etc services.
So will this be the timetable change in which the Nottingham services both call only at Kettering & Market Harborough on their way to Leicester?
 

Ianno87

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So will this be the timetable change in which the Nottingham services both call only at Kettering & Market Harborough on their way to Leicester?

I'd presume so; don't see why you'd introduce 2tph to Corby with those calls then only to withdraw the calls at a later date in the other services.
 

HST43257

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I'd presume so; don't see why you'd introduce 2tph to Corby with those calls then only to withdraw the calls at a later date in the other services.
Very true. I’d be interested to know how Bedford and Wellingborough travellers feel about losing their direct Leicester and Nottingham service...
 

43074

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Very true. I’d be interested to know how Bedford and Wellingborough travellers feel about losing their direct Leicester and Nottingham service...
They aren't happy about it but they get half hourly journey opportunities with a change at Kettering instead of an hourly direct train which is probably an acceptable compromise.
They've got the units for 2 tph but will they get the train crew trained in time?
All seems to be going okay so far, no indication otherwise. The training runs have been happening since mid-December.
 

g22

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Not sure where to mention this on the forum, but the May 21 EMR Timetable Consultation Results document is on the EMR website.
 

swt_passenger

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Not sure where to mention this on the forum, but the May 21 EMR Timetable Consultation Results document is on the EMR website.
The best place would probably have been in the now closed EMR consultation thread here:
as it’s actually the response to that consultation, presumably running 6 months late.
The actual consultation response pdf is here:
 

g22

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The best place would probably have been in the now closed EMR consultation thread here:
as it’s actually the response to that consultation, presumably running 6 months late.
The actual consultation response pdf is here:
Yes, but the thread was closed.
Thanks for providing the link, for some reason I haven't done this before on this forum!
 
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43055

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Not sure where to mention this on the forum, but the May 21 EMR Timetable Consultation Results document is on the EMR website.

The best place would probably have been in the now closed EMR consultation thread here:
as it’s actually the response to that consultation, presumably running 6 months late.
The actual consultation response pdf is here:
Thanks for the heads up and link. If this does go ahead in May then this is what I can make out:

Intercity:
London to Corby goes 30 min with 360's.
London to Nottingham and Sheffield journeys sped up south of Kettering but 2 peak calls at Bedford and Wellingborough for journeys towards Leicester.
Sundays mornings will continue with 2ph to London and a Corby shuttle with the afternoon service being broadly the same as the Monday to Saturday service (6 per hour out of St Pancras)
A additional Lincoln - London service.
Leeds service becomes 1 journey in the evening returning to Derby.
York weekend service becomes 2 per day. Only mentions this under Sunday services.
First southbound services are up to a hour earlier during the week.

Also on the regional side (I thought these were happening in December 2021??):
Nottingham - Worksop - More consistent service and additional Saturday evening service through to Worksop by extending a service from Mansfield.
Leicester - Lincoln - Grimsby - Later evening services between Nottingham and Leicester and weekday services will extend to Grimsby off peak every two hours.
Nottingham - Skegness - Summer trains to run throughout the year (Old HST services?), Improved Sunday service (10 journeys).
Doncaster - Peterborough - More consistent service (Hourly?)
Liverpool - Norwich - Earlier and Later services to compensate for the loss of London - Nottingham - Leeds services. Additional late service from Manchester to Nottingham.
Matlock - Newark - Newark to Nottingham now moved to the Crewe service. Sunday service improved (Hourly throughout?)
Derby - Crewe - Extended to Nottingham and Newark in place of the Matlock service Monday to Saturday. Later evening service.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Thanks for the heads up and link. If this does go ahead in May then this is what I can make out:

Intercity:
London to Corby goes 30 min with 360's.
London to Nottingham and Sheffield journeys sped up south of Kettering but 2 peak calls at Bedford and Wellingborough for journeys towards Leicester.
Sundays mornings will continue with 2ph to London and a Corby shuttle with the afternoon service being broadly the same as the Monday to Saturday service (6 per hour out of St Pancras)
A additional Lincoln - London service.
Leeds service becomes 1 journey in the evening returning to Derby.
York weekend service becomes 2 per day. Only mentions this under Sunday services.
First southbound services are up to a hour earlier during the week.

Also on the regional side (I thought these were happening in December 2021??):
Nottingham - Worksop - More consistent service and additional Saturday evening service through to Worksop by extending a service from Mansfield.
Leicester - Lincoln - Grimsby - Later evening services between Nottingham and Leicester and weekday services will extend to Grimsby off peak every two hours.
Nottingham - Skegness - Summer trains to run throughout the year (Old HST services?), Improved Sunday service (10 journeys).
Doncaster - Peterborough - More consistent service (Hourly?)
Liverpool - Norwich - Earlier and Later services to compensate for the loss of London - Nottingham - Leeds services. Additional late service from Manchester to Nottingham.
Matlock - Newark - Newark to Nottingham now moved to the Crewe service. Sunday service improved (Hourly throughout?)
Derby - Crewe - Extended to Nottingham and Newark in place of the Matlock service Monday to Saturday. Later evening service.
Derby - Crewe.
Through running to Nottingham I can't remember the date proposed.
Later evening service/s was December 2020.
Earlier Sunday services was December 2021.
 

Ianno87

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The best place would probably have been in the now closed EMR consultation thread here:
as it’s actually the response to that consultation, presumably running 6 months late.
The actual consultation response pdf is here:

Thanks for the heads up and link. If this does go ahead in May then this is what I can make out:

Intercity:
London to Corby goes 30 min with 360's.
London to Nottingham and Sheffield journeys sped up south of Kettering but 2 peak calls at Bedford and Wellingborough for journeys towards Leicester.
Sundays mornings will continue with 2ph to London and a Corby shuttle with the afternoon service being broadly the same as the Monday to Saturday service (6 per hour out of St Pancras)
A additional Lincoln - London service.
Leeds service becomes 1 journey in the evening returning to Derby.
York weekend service becomes 2 per day. Only mentions this under Sunday services.
First southbound services are up to a hour earlier during the week.

Also on the regional side (I thought these were happening in December 2021??):
Nottingham - Worksop - More consistent service and additional Saturday evening service through to Worksop by extending a service from Mansfield.
Leicester - Lincoln - Grimsby - Later evening services between Nottingham and Leicester and weekday services will extend to Grimsby off peak every two hours.
Nottingham - Skegness - Summer trains to run throughout the year (Old HST services?), Improved Sunday service (10 journeys).
Doncaster - Peterborough - More consistent service (Hourly?)
Liverpool - Norwich - Earlier and Later services to compensate for the loss of London - Nottingham - Leeds services. Additional late service from Manchester to Nottingham.
Matlock - Newark - Newark to Nottingham now moved to the Crewe service. Sunday service improved (Hourly throughout?)
Derby - Crewe - Extended to Nottingham and Newark in place of the Matlock service Monday to Saturday. Later evening service.

Interesting that a daily Leeds working will be retained.

Sounds like an evening St Pancras-Sheffield extending to Leeds, then returning in service to Derby.
 

adamedwards

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Leeds was I assume run because of the need to get the HSTs to Neville Hill. Did the journeys they made attract many passengers. This timetable change suggests not.
 

HST43257

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Leeds was I assume run because of the need to get the HSTs to Neville Hill. Did the journeys they made attract many passengers. This timetable change suggests not.
I would doubt that they were too busy, since they went via Nottingham. First stop before Sheffield was Wakefield, which has a much faster, much more frequent London service. Surely it’s now just being kept for the small amount of Sheffield, Derby and Leicester commuters from Leeds.
 

swt_passenger

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Interesting that a daily Leeds working will be retained.

Sounds like an evening St Pancras-Sheffield extending to Leeds, then returning in service to Derby.
It’s not really “news”, is it? I’m sure we’ve discussed it in detail last year some time...

In fact it was mentioned in Dec 2019, in the earlier consultation thread, referencing a track access application:
 

43074

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I would doubt that they were too busy, since they went via Nottingham. First stop before Sheffield was Wakefield, which has a much faster, much more frequent London service. Surely it’s now just being kept for the small amount of Sheffield, Derby and Leicester commuters from Leeds.
Not really as you could count the number of commuters from the East Midlands to Leeds on one hand, I suspect getting a cut of the London to Leeds revenue is more to do with it.i

If it is running to Leeds then back to Derby it's possible the train to Leeds will be timed more conveniently than at the moment though.
 

Ianno87

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It’s not really “news”, is it? I’m sure we’ve discussed it in detail last year some time...

In fact it was mentioned in Dec 2019, in the earlier consultation thread, referencing a track access application:

I sincerely apologise for not trawling through a completely different thread from over 12 months ago to find that.
 

swt_passenger

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I sincerely apologise for not trawling through a completely different thread from over 12 months ago to find that.
Sorry that wasn’t my intention, the thing is that the almost complete loss of the Leeds service was widely discussed in a few different threads ever since the end of the HST became near, and it was when Leeds didn‘t get a mention in the new franchise ITT that people first started raising the possibility. So I wrongly thought most members would have been forewarned about the issue.
 
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43055

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Just so i understand, there will be two services each way from St. Pancras to York?
All it says is extensions to the Sheffield service so it could mean London or Leicester/Derby like some early/late services currently. At the moment the Sunday journey to York starts at Leicester at 1020 with the evening return journey going all the way to London.
 

cle

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The Lincoln is curious given the ECML increases. And the Yorks, where people decry the Leeds demand. Worth it for the XC relief alone.

Nothing else earth-shattering, but I am glad that the Crewe service at least reaches Nottingham again, and even hits Newark, albeit Castle. But it's showing more of its potential as a cross-country route, which I think is under-utilized.
 

Techniquest

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Sorry that wasn’t my intention, the thing is that the almost complete loss of the Leeds service was widely discussed in a few different threads ever since the end of the HST became near, and it was when Leeds didn‘t get a mention in the new franchise ITT that people first started raising the possibility. So I wrongly thought most members would have been forewarned about the issue.

Worth mentioning I didn't know of these changes either. To be fair, I don't keep up to date with everything as I just can't be bothered. Especially threads with titles including 'timetable consultation' as it just sounds incredibly boring. Ideal if I need something to make me fall asleep fast I guess :lol:
 

RH Liner

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I don’t understand why the London-Lincoln Service is needed at all. Both Lincoln and Newark are well served, and much more quickly, to Kings Cross by LNER. Two villages (Collingham, Lowdham) are therefore the only beneficiaries from a through London service. Is there not a case for diverting this service up to the much larger town of Mansfield instead?
 

Class 170101

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I don’t understand why the London-Lincoln Service is needed at all. Both Lincoln and Newark are well served, and much more quickly, to Kings Cross by LNER. Two villages (Collingham, Lowdham) are therefore the only beneficiaries from a through London service. Is there not a case for diverting this service up to the much larger town of Mansfield instead?

Its not London to Lincoln market but St Pancras to Nottingham and Leicester to Lincoln markets though, served by one train, in the same way Liverpool Street to Peterborough didn't serve the London to Peterborough market but London to Bury St Edmunds and Colchester to Peterborough markets.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
All it says is extensions to the Sheffield service so it could mean London or Leicester/Derby like some early/late services currently. At the moment the Sunday journey to York starts at Leicester at 1020 with the evening return journey going all the way to London.

Has it been mentioned which way the York extensions will go after Sheffield, as there are three possibilities (see below)?

1) Per as the Southampton/Reading - Newcastle XC via Doncaster
2) Via Barnsley Interchange, Wakefield Kirkgate, and Castleford
3) Via the Dearne Valley and Pontefract Baghill
 

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