May 2022 Timetable Changes

[Peter0124]

Something I've noticed is LNER seem to have two ECS paths to Glasgow Central from May 16th, does anyone know why this is? And if so, why can't it run as a passenger service (ie an extension of the inbound/outbound Edinburgh)

Realtime Trains | 5S04 1152 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central | 16/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 5S04 1152 departure from Edinburgh to Glasgow Central on 16/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3E21 1342 Glasgow Central to Edinburgh | 16/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 3E21 1342 departure from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh on 16/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Booked to just sit in P2 at Glasgow for about half an hour, no idea why? It would usually come to and from Craigentinny so maybe they'll just use their depot instead?

 

[Class 170101]

Not exactly great paths in either direction.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If it ran in passenger service it would certainly be welcomed by Motherwell passengers who are extremely poorly served in the new timetables and indeed now since the savage pruning of both ScotRail and cross-country is offering

 

[berneyarms]

All of the following TOCs have uploaded the new timetable pdfs on their websites:

Avanti West Coast
CrossCounty
East Midlands Railway
Grand Central
Greater Anglia
GWR
Hull Trains
London Northwestern Railway
Lumo
Northern
South Western Railway
TfL Rail
West Midlands Railway

Still to come:
Chiltern
c2c
Govia Thameslink (Gatwick Express, Great Northern, Southern & Thameslink)
LNER
London Overground
Merseyrail
Scotrail
Southeastern (Timetables are available in html format)
Transport for Wales
Transpennine Express

 

[30907]

Not exactly great paths in either direction.

Quite. I would guess it would run when required for route learning/refreshing - maybe the one daily service just doesn't work for this purpose?

 

[Southern Dvr]

Quite. I would guess it would run when required for route learning/refreshing - maybe the one daily service just doesn't work for this purpose?

It will be a route learner/refresher as you say. I wonder if there hasn’t been enough work for drivers to maintain competency or another link is learning the route in preparation for more work that way?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Crewe to Birmingham via Stoke-on-Trent (LMR/LNWR) will operate via Tame Bridge from the timetable change [apart from one or two early/late trips]. This is a permanent feature. Reference is made on their website as it enabling Willenhall and Darlaston to be served [once they are completed]. Adds upto 20 minutes to journey times.

Also calling at Longport, replacing most EMR calls.

• From Sunday 15 May, services between Crewe – Birmingham New Street via Stoke-on-Trent will run to an alternative route between Wolverhampton – Birmingham New Street, calling at Tame Bridge Parkway. This change prepares us for future services that will serve new stations at Darlaston & Willenhall. As a result of this change, these services will now call at Tame Bridge Parkway. End to end journey times for this route will increase by up to 10 minutes towards Birmingham and up to 20 minutes towards Crewe.
• Our Crewe - Birmingham New Street via Stoke-on-Trent services will permanently call at Longport in both directions Monday - Saturday.

 

[Class 170101]

It will be a route learner/refresher as you say. I wonder if there hasn’t been enough work for drivers to maintain competency or another link is learning the route in preparation for more work that way?

In terms of traction East Coast would be better as the routes are electrified and the Voyagers could be re-deployed to the core XC route.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It would be a great bit of common sense thinking if these services were extended back to Glasgow Central via Motherwell every couple of hours. I should imagine that both Scottish and Westminster transport ministers have had a good number of complaints as there almost hourly service at Motherwell pre-pandemic dwindled to a handful of mismatched trains and operators at a random assortment of times of day.

 

[Peter0124]

It would be a great bit of common sense thinking if these services were extended back to Glasgow Central via Motherwell every couple of hours. I should imagine that both Scottish and Westminster transport ministers have had a good number of complaints as there almost hourly service at Motherwell pre-pandemic dwindled to a handful of mismatched trains and operators at a random assortment of times of day.

With the connections available at Motherwell (eg Hamilton Circle, Whifflet line) you would think there would still be fairly regular Scotrail services towards Edinburgh, but only four a day from May 16th on RTT. Two of which are early morning services. Is there not demand post pandemic for a regular two hourly service, alternating Scotrail and LNER/XC between Motherwell and Edinburgh? Also the Glasgow/Motherwell to NE england links have been basically decimated compared to pre-pandemic, one LNER and two XC towards Newcastle (0648, 0748 and 1900 off Glasgow).

 

[800001]

But t

It would be a great bit of common sense thinking if these services were extended back to Glasgow Central via Motherwell every couple of hours. I should imagine that both Scottish and Westminster transport ministers have had a good number of complaints as there almost hourly service at Motherwell pre-pandemic dwindled to a handful of mismatched trains and operators at a random assortment of times of day.

The whole reason for the was it wasted sets going to and and from Glasgow. It would not be achievable with the current fleet.

 

[Peter0124]

But t

The whole reason for the was it wasted sets going to and and from Glasgow. It would not be achievable with the current fleet.

That 1S04/1E21 diagram goes to and from Craigentinny anyway though.

 

[800001]

As

That 1S04/1E21 diagram goes to and from Craigentinny anyway though.

Yes that one set is diagrammed to go on and off Craigentinny between those services.
If you ran every other hour to/from Glasgow it would require more units.
Basically serve Glasgow more often, and you run trains some where else less.
That’s the whole reason Crosscountry run the Glasgow services, it allowed what was East Coast trains to operator more Edinburgh to Londons.

 

[hexagon789]

That’s the whole reason Crosscountry run the Glasgow services, it allowed what was East Coast trains to operator more Edinburgh to Londons.

More "ran" past tense, while I appreciate there are more XC services than LNER its still a far cry from the two-hourly interval service we had. I don't get the feeling the regular service is returning.

 

[Starmill]

The Motherwell - Edinburgh direct service is currently very poor but long term it is likely to return. Some of tye other changes such as the cuts at Markinch etc are less likely to be improved again.

 

[hexagon789]

The Motherwell - Edinburgh direct service is currently very poor but long term it is likely to return. Some of tye other changes such as the cuts at Markinch etc are less likely to be improved again.

I understand the ScotRail Glasgow Central-Motherwell-Carstairs-Edinburgh 1tp2h service is due back in December, and the second Shotts line service next May. Unless plans change in the interim of course.

 

[Tayway]

The Motherwell - Edinburgh direct service is currently very poor but long term it is likely to return. Some of tye other changes such as the cuts at Markinch etc are less likely to be improved again.

When Levenmouth opens I would be astonished if they didn't look at Fife again – the Dundee and Perth stopping services will become overcrowded unless they start running double units, and Leven will probably want services running both via Kirkcaldy and via Dunfermline.

 

[Starmill]

When Levenmouth opens I would be astonished if they didn't look at Fife again – the Dundee and Perth stopping services will become overcrowded unless they start running double units, and Leven will probably want services running both via Kirkcaldy and via Dunfermline.

I'm quite sure you're right but as I understand it the initial plan is to extend the two Fife Circle services from Cowdenbeath and Glenrothes with Thornton to Leven. Leaving the units spare to do this seems to have driven the plan.

 

[InOban]

I understand the ScotRail Glasgow Central-Motherwell-Carstairs-Edinburgh 1tp2h service is due back in December, and the second Shotts line service next May. Unless plans change in the interim of course.

The new TPE-Operated services between Newcastle and Edinburgh should be extended to Glasgow Central and all or nearly all XC and LNER services should be withdrawn. The XC stock in particular is needed to strengthen services their core.

 

[JonathanH]

The XC stock in particular is needed to strengthen services their core.

The TPE stock will one day be needed to strengthen services in its core as well.

Anyway, it isn't happening in the May 2022 timetable.

 

[800001]

but

The new TPE-Operated services between Newcastle and Edinburgh should be extended to Glasgow Central and all or nearly all XC and LNER services should be withdrawn. The XC stock in particular is needed to strengthen services their core.

All you are doing then is shifting the problem to TPE.
That would need additional units to run to/From Glasgow, the units will be required on the main Tpe routes when they get back to full timetable.

 

[Peter0124]

Then who would provide the ECML NE England services to and from Glasgow/Motherwell?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

but

All you are doing then is shifting the problem to TPE.
That would need additional units to run to/From Glasgow, the units will be required on the main Tpe routes when they get back to full timetable.

The original unit plan had hourly Liverpool to Edinburgh via Newcastle which would require probably three more units than when permanently truncated at Newcastle.
To run Newcastle to Glasgow every two hours should require 3 units.

 

[Watershed]

The original unit plan had hourly Liverpool to Edinburgh via Newcastle which would require probably three more units than when permanently truncated at Newcastle.
To run Newcastle to Glasgow every two hours should require 3 units.

Except it doesn't quite work out that way. 802/2s (probably 2 of them) are going to be covering for the poor availability of 397s on the WCML, to allow that timetable to increase to (near) pre Covid levels. The demand certainly warrants that.

And as soon as you split a service (in this case Liverpool-Edinburgh into Liverpool-Newcastle and Newcastle-Edinburgh/beyond) it costs you extra units because the turnarounds become more inefficient.

The paths which the Liverpool-Edinburgh services previously ran in north of Newcastle are no longer available, both because of Lumo services starting up, as well as the fact that these services now form the local "stopper".

The current XC services between Newcastle and Glasgow take around 2'40"-2"50" to make the journey. So you'd realistically need 4 units to do a 2 hourly service, especially once you added in the extra stops at Reston etc.

There's a little bit of slack in the 802/2 fleet at the moment, but not enough to do all that.

 

[route101]

It would be a great bit of common sense thinking if these services were extended back to Glasgow Central via Motherwell every couple of hours. I should imagine that both Scottish and Westminster transport ministers have had a good number of complaints as there almost hourly service at Motherwell pre-pandemic dwindled to a handful of mismatched trains and operators at a random assortment of times of day.

These services were popular on Fridays and at the weekend with people heading to Newcastle. Well used from Motherwell. A later LNER departure from Glasgow Central would offer good timings.

 

[Peter0124]

Looks like the paths for 1S04/1E21 to go to/from Craigentinny on Mon-Fri have been removed from May 16th according to RTT. So the ECS to Glasgow may be running after all. Wished it was part of an extended passenger service. Even though the paths are bad I am sure they could rejig the diaggrams a bit and fit something in. Though platform space at Glasgow may be a problem if the twice hourly GLC-EUS via BHM returns.

 

[Class 170101]

Have ATW also given up running via Stafford? I notice from May the two trains they currently run have been withdrawn. Not so bad in the evening but the morning equals a 30 minute later start.

 

[Watershed]

Have ATW also given up running via Stafford? I notice from May the two trains they currently run have been withdrawn. Not so bad in the evening but the morning equals a 30 minute later start.

Yes, they are dropping the route from the May TT change. In both directions it means the loss of the first/last train of the day between Birmingham/Wolverhampton and Stafford/Crewe and beyond. It's particularly a loss for anyone who relied on the availability of the 22:54 Birmingham to Holyhead, which has no real replacement (even for Birmingham/Wolverhampton passengers).

 

[_toommm_]

Yes, they are dropping the route from the May TT change. In both directions it means the loss of the first/last train of the day between Birmingham/Wolverhampton and Stafford/Crewe and beyond. It's particularly a loss for anyone who relied on the availability of the 22:54 Birmingham to Holyhead, which has no real replacement (even for Birmingham/Wolverhampton passengers).

There is a 23:09 Birmingham to Crewe that currently runs and will continue to run from the May TT change.

 

[berneyarms]

There is also a new 23:40 Shrewsbury to Holyhead service which covers the Chester to Holyhead section of the existing service.