May 2022 Timetable Changes

[Thunderer]

What’s happened to XC’s Summer Saturday HST services? Leeds-Paignton, Paignton-Glasgow; York-Penzance, Penzance-Leeds; Glasgow-Paignton, Paignton-Leeds; Glasgow-Penzance, even Manchester-Newquay voyagers? Does no one go on holiday anymore to Devon & Cornwall from the midlands and the north? We always use the 1V44 and 1E67 on a summer Saturday to get to/from Dawlish to/from Bristol and those trains are always busy. With this awful timetable, that now means an extra change at Exeter both ways to get to Dawlish, so unfortunately this year I will be inclined to drive instead as its cheaper and now quicker. Its as if people are being deliberately “put off” travelling to/from great holiday destinations in Devon & Cornwall, with practically no XC summer Saturday services to/from the Midlands and the North? Im surprised councils & businesses in Dawlish, Teignmouth, Torquay, Paignton and resorts in Cornwall have not kicked up a fuss as this summer timetable will no doubt cost these resorts valuable pounds of lost revenue as many people will be put off with the increased prices and the added inconvenience of multiple changes to get to these places.

 

[DarloRich]

seems we are getting a full timetable back on the Marston Vale!

 

[Class 466]

seems we are getting a full timetable back on the Marston Vale!

Hopefully without the return of regular train failures!

 

[dk1]

What’s happened to XC’s Summer Saturday HST services? Leeds-Paignton, Paignton-Glasgow; York-Penzance, Penzance-Leeds; Glasgow-Paignton, Paignton-Leeds; Glasgow-Penzance, even Manchester-Newquay voyagers? Does no one go on holiday anymore to Devon & Cornwall from the midlands and the north? We always use the 1V44 and 1E67 on a summer Saturday to get to/from Dawlish to/from Bristol and those trains are always busy. With this awful timetable, that now means an extra change at Exeter both ways to get to Dawlish, so unfortunately this year I will be inclined to drive instead as its cheaper and now quicker. Its as if people are being deliberately “put off” travelling to/from great holiday destinations in Devon & Cornwall, with practically no XC summer Saturday services to/from the Midlands and the North? Im surprised councils & businesses in Dawlish, Teignmouth, Torquay, Paignton and resorts in Cornwall have not kicked up a fuss as this summer timetable will no doubt cost these resorts valuable pounds of lost revenue as many people will be put off with the increased prices and the added inconvenience of multiple changes to get to these places.

Sadly not surprised one bit with that particular franchise. Doesn't seem to be very well run at all.

 

[Goldfish62]

Sadly not surprised one bit with that particular franchise. Doesn't seem to be very well run at all.

It's one of the TOCs that seems to be doing its best to deter people returning to the railways, or least its services.

 

[dk1]

It's one of the TOCs that seems to be doing its best to deter people returning to the railways, or least its services.

Yes it really does seem that way. Such a shame.

 

[LowLevel]

My gut feeling is there is something going on between the Government and XC. It feels very much like it is being left to stagnate. There are difficult times all over the railway but it just seems to be worse there somehow. Very unfortunate for the customers and staff.

 

[Kite159]

seems we are getting a full timetable back on the Marston Vale!

I will give it a day before the buses return

 

[Goldfish62]

My gut feeling is there is something going on between the Government and XC. It feels very much like it is being left to stagnate. There are difficult times all over the railway but it just seems to be worse there somehow. Very unfortunate for the customers and staff.

That's my impression as well - solve the historic overcrowding issue by deterring passengers rather than leasing additional rolling stock.

The service between Cornwall and Birmingham/the North is worse than now than I ever remember it, and that's going back to the 1960s.

 

[david1212]

What’s happened to XC’s Summer Saturday HST services? Leeds-Paignton, Paignton-Glasgow; York-Penzance, Penzance-Leeds; Glasgow-Paignton, Paignton-Leeds; Glasgow-Penzance, even Manchester-Newquay voyagers? Does no one go on holiday anymore to Devon & Cornwall from the midlands and the north? We always use the 1V44 and 1E67 on a summer Saturday to get to/from Dawlish to/from Bristol and those trains are always busy. With this awful timetable, that now means an extra change at Exeter both ways to get to Dawlish, so unfortunately this year I will be inclined to drive instead as its cheaper and now quicker. Its as if people are being deliberately “put off” travelling to/from great holiday destinations in Devon & Cornwall, with practically no XC summer Saturday services to/from the Midlands and the North? Im surprised councils & businesses in Dawlish, Teignmouth, Torquay, Paignton and resorts in Cornwall have not kicked up a fuss as this summer timetable will no doubt cost these resorts valuable pounds of lost revenue as many people will be put off with the increased prices and the added inconvenience of multiple changes to get to these places.

It's one of the TOCs that seems to be doing its best to deter people returning to the railways, or least its services.

My gut feeling is there is something going on between the Government and XC. It feels very much like it is being left to stagnate. There are difficult times all over the railway but it just seems to be worse there somehow. Very unfortunate for the customers and staff.

I think the same and used the word collusion in my last post.
I have posted several times about Reading - Southampton - Bournemouth remaining 2 hourly on Saturday and that with numerous trains per hour running north of York some XC services should be terminated there so the sets can run to the South Coast and South-West.

That's my impression as well - solve the historic overcrowding issue by deterring passengers rather than leasing additional rolling stock.

The service between Cornwall and Birmingham/the North is worse than now than I ever remember it, and that's going back to the 1960s.

Right now there is no suitable stock available. Only time will tell where the DfT decide to reallocate the West Coast Voyagers and the MML Meridians when they are released.
Further as I understand the HST's are rostered for fewer services.

 

[Goldfish62]

Right now there is no suitable stock available. Only time will tell where the DfT decide to reallocate the West Coast Voyagers and the MML Meridians when they are released.
Further as I understand the HST's are rostered for fewer services.

How can there be no suitable stock available when there's been no fleet reduction compared with when a much better service level was operated? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Quite.

 

[JonathanH]

How can there be no suitable stock available when there's been no fleet reduction compared with when a much better service level was operated? That doesn't make any sense.

As pointed out in other threads, CrossCountry appear not to have the traincrew complement to run the previous service. I think it was suggested that some staff are covering the relatively full service on the 170 operation and they have lost a lot of traincrew with fewer new recruits. The stock is largely doubled up on the residual Voyager services.

All in this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...28-11-2021-onwards.225291/page-8#post-5423249

Any substantial level of enhanced operation on Summer Saturdays has been in decline for many years

 

[Bald Rick]

As pointed out in other threads, CrossCountry appear not to have the traincrew complement to run the previous service. I think it was suggested that some staff are covering the relatively full service on the 170 operation and they have lost a lot of traincrew with fewer new recruits.

not working rest days doesn’t help either.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Any substantial level of enhanced operation on Summer Saturdays has been in decline for many years

It just looks strange when GWR run probably more Summer West Country additionals than in recent years and XC run none!

 

[david1212]

That's my impression as well - solve the historic overcrowding issue by deterring passengers rather than leasing additional rolling stock.

The service between Cornwall and Birmingham/the North is worse than now than I ever remember it, and that's going back to the 1960s.

.....
Right now there is no suitable stock available. Only time will tell where the DfT decide to reallocate the West Coast Voyagers and the MML Meridians when they are released.
Further as I understand the HST's are rostered for fewer services.

How can there be no suitable stock available when there's been no fleet reduction compared with when a much better service level was operated? That doesn't make any sense.

I was responding specifically to your comment I have now highlighted.
That is different to questioning why the timetable as summer 2019 can not be run given XC still have the same fleet.
For the peak season Saturday only trains I recall they hired in extra HST's from MML and / or East Coast. MML have now ceased using HST's.

 

[800001]

I think the same and used the word collusion in my last post.
I have posted several times about Reading - Southampton - Bournemouth remaining 2 hourly on Saturday and that with numerous trains per hour running north of York some XC services should be terminated there so the sets can run to the South Coast and South-West.



Right now there is no suitable stock available. Only time will tell where the DfT decide to reallocate the West Coast Voyagers and the MML Meridians when they are released.
Further as I understand the HST's are rostered for fewer services.

If you terminated some XC at York heading north, where are you then transferring those customers?
LNER and TPE trains can be extremely full most days, and the Xc can also be heavily loaded.

 

[TheSel]

Merseyrail announced on Twitter earlier they're going back to the pre-Covid 15 minute timetable from 2nd May.

I believe the Ormskirk and Kirkby lines had been interworked on the 20 minute timetable - I think that'll stop now?

Merseyrail post-Covid Timetables now available on line. Pretty much "as you were" prior to the whole debacle.

https://www.merseyrail.org/plan-your-journey/15-minute-timetable.aspx

... and a sub-section detailing the services planned to be run with 6 car sets.

https://www.merseyrail.org/plan-your-journey/6-carriage-trains.aspx

 

[Starmill]

You can tell they're struggling. No six car diagrams for West Kirkby or New Brighton services. Only one listed for Chester. Is that actually correct? No afternoon six cars at all via Birkenhead?

 

[Bow Fell]

You can tell they're struggling. No six car diagrams for West Kirkby or New Brighton services. Only one listed for Chester. Is that actually correct? No afternoon six cars at all via Birkenhead?

That was always the case, never 6 cars on the New Brighton’s, there used to be 2 on the Chester’s for the AM peak that’s now down to 1, but there are additional Ellesmere Port’s anyway the fit in between.

The West Kirby 6 car went around 2019 anyway.

So PM peak that’s pretty much as pre-pandemic. Except one of the additional Hooton runs no longer runs.

The fleet isn’t struggling, the only noticeable thing that pre-pandemic to now. The fleet has dropped from 59 to 56 units.

 

[Starmill]

That was always the case, never 6 cars on the New Brighton’s, there used to be 2 on the Chester’s for the AM peak that’s now down to 1, but there are additional Ellesmere Port’s anyway the fit in between.

The West Kirby 6 car went around 2019 anyway.

So PM peak that’s pretty much as pre-pandemic. Except one of the additional Hooton runs no longer runs.

The fleet isn’t struggling, the only noticeable thing that pre-pandemic to now. The fleet has dropped from 59 to 56 units.

I remember using the six car West Kirby. That service didn't get less busy because it was reduced. Going down from two to one from Chester isn't great. There doesn't appear to be any additional Ellesmere Port service?

Withdrawing the peak Hooton and Southport services makes it more of an issue.

 

[James H]

The second Weymouth returns in May. The second Portsmouth fast should be December. The second Guildford via Epsom isn't returning. The Salisbury stopper I am not 100% sure about. Maybe December for that too.

The Government says that not running the second Portsmouth fast gives rise to a saving of £3.6 million a year

Source: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2022-04-07.HL7790.h#gHL7790.q0

 

[Bow Fell]

I remember using the six car West Kirby. That service didn't get less busy because it was reduced. Going down from two to one from Chester isn't great. There doesn't appear to be any additional Ellesmere Port service?

Withdrawing the peak Hooton and Southport services makes it more of an issue.

There are additional Ellesmere Ports from Ellesmere Port at 0731, 0801 which is the exact same pre-Covid.

The loss of one 6 car Chester (0807 to Liverpool) which used to run round the Loop to Birkenhead Central only, now extends all the way to Chester filling a previous 30 min gap which is really good news. So the 0848 Moorfields to Chester is actually a new additional service!

The only slight change is the loss of one during the PM peak, there are still PM extras to Hooton. The only change is no 1603 to Hooton anymore, and the 1633 to Ellesmere Port terminates at Hooton but the additionals to Ellesmere Port from Moorfields still run at 1703 and 1733.

There haven’t been additional Southport peak trains for nearly 4 years. They ended in May 2018.

 

[Starmill]

There are additional Ellesmere Ports from Ellesmere Port at 0731, 0801 which is the exact same pre-Covid.

The loss of one 6 car Chester (0807 to Liverpool) which used to run round the Loop to Birkenhead Central only, now extends all the way to Chester filling a previous 30 min gap which is really good news. So the 0848 Moorfields to Chester is actually a new additional service!

The only slight change is the loss of one during the PM peak, there are still PM extras to Hooton. The only change is no 1603 to Hooton anymore, and the 1633 to Ellesmere Port terminates at Hooton but the additionals to Ellesmere Port from Moorfields still run at 1703 and 1733.

There haven’t been additional Southport peak trains for nearly 4 years. They ended in May 2018.

It appears that you're just confirming what I said that availability is reduced and it's likely to be felt long term. Not exactly good news.

The 0807 from Chester doesn't return to Chester either in the May timetable. It goes to Birkenhead North. It doesn't particularly matter though because it's right behind an existing service anyway.

 

[miklcct]

The Government says that not running the second Portsmouth fast gives rise to a saving of £3.6 million a year

Source: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2022-04-07.HL7790.h#gHL7790.q0

I'm very disappointed that the second Branksome / Parkstone isn't returning in May.

Furthermore, I'm disappointed that in the December 2022 consultation, the second Branksome / Parkstone will be a portion terminating at Poole, rather than adding the calls to the Weymouth service, which does nothing to solve the non-connection between Upwey / Moreton / Wool / Holton Heath and Parkstone / Branksome (the only hourly portion which calls at these station will not call between Poole and Bournemouth), although the non-connection from Pokesdown to Branksome will be completely solved by the retiming of the stopper.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It appears that you're just confirming what I said that availability is reduced and it's likely to be felt long term. Not exactly good news.

The 0807 from Chester doesn't return to Chester either in the May timetable. It goes to Birkenhead North. It doesn't particularly matter though because it's right behind an existing service anyway.

Well at least they are putting back the majority of the service that existed pre covid and leaving most other UK operators trailing.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I'm very disappointed that the second Branksome / Parkstone isn't returning in May.

Furthermore, I'm disappointed that in the December 2022 consultation, the second Branksome / Parkstone will be a portion terminating at Poole, rather than adding the calls to the Weymouth service, which does nothing to solve the non-connection between Upwey / Moreton / Wool / Holton Heath and Parkstone / Branksome (the only hourly portion which calls at these station will not call between Poole and Bournemouth), although the non-connection from Pokesdown to Branksome will be completely solved by the retiming of the stopper.

The second Branksome and Parkstone service does return in May 22. In fact it is far better spaced then previously. Now it’s a 20/40 departure from Branksome and Parkstone, previously it was a 10/50. This will benfit far more passengers at a lower cost than pre-Covid arrangements.

It isn’t possible to add stops the the slower Weymouth service as would break the turnaround at Weymouth.

 

[Bow Fell]

There are additional Ellesmere Ports from Ellesmere Port at 0731, 0801 which is the exact same pre-Covid.

The loss of one 6 car Chester (0807 to Liverpool) which used to run round the Loop to Birkenhead Central only, now extends all the way to Chester filling a previous 30 min gap which is really good news. So the 0848 Moorfields to Chester is actually a new additional service!

The only slight change is the loss of one during the PM peak, there are still PM extras to Hooton. The only change is no 1603 to Hooton anymore, and the 1633 to Ellesmere Port terminates at Hooton but the additionals to Ellesmere Port from Moorfields still run at 1703 and 1733.

There haven’t been additional Southport peak trains for nearly 4 years. They ended in May 2017

It appears that you're just confirming what I said that availability is reduced and it's likely to be felt long term. Not exactly good news.

The 0807 from Chester doesn't return to Chester either in the May timetable. It goes to Birkenhead North. It doesn't particularly matter though because it's right behind an existing service anyway.

It does return to Chester it’s 2C09 it’s just not in RTT (yet)

Availability is reduced by 1 unit, I say pretty good going, considering the loss of 3 units since the pre-Covid TT so not sure what the issue is.

 

[Starmill]

It does return to Chester it’s 2C09 it’s just not in RTT (yet)

Availability is reduced by 1 unit, I say pretty good going, considering the loss of 3 units since the pre-Covid TT so not sure what the issue is.

It's fairly obvious that you don't see the issue given you've three times made inaccurate comparisons! The train has been uploaded as a service from Chester to Birkenhead North via Liverpool Central. Obviously it is entirely possible that it will be changed on a short term or longer term basis, though doing so really doesn't result in an improvement as it's 7 minutes behind an existing service and will carry very few passengers.

 

[miklcct]

The second Branksome and Parkstone service does return in May 22. In fact it is far better spaced then previously. Now it’s a 20/40 departure from Branksome and Parkstone, previously it was a 10/50. This will benfit far more passengers at a lower cost than pre-Covid arrangements.

It isn’t possible to add stops the the slower Weymouth service as would break the turnaround at Weymouth.

I still can't see the second Branksome / Parkstone on a weekday in June in the timetable.